Who is right/Who is wrong?
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| Sat, 11-12-2005 - 11:18am |
Ok all, you're not through with me yet...!
Lately as far as the trust issue...well, I guess things are improving a bit. I have been keeping more to myself, spending more time by myself instead of that codependent crap...he on his end has been respecting what I ask as far as his selection of movies or whatever. We've been trying to talk about things but he still wants most of the time to not talk about them. I know he's hoping that I will find a way to get over this but he doesn't enjoy me bringing it up all the time. However, we have made some progress. As far as being able to trust him, I guess I've just been trying to read the signs more than anything with his sexual intimacy with me and so far I see it improving, so I think in that arena we are getting better.
But sometimes I feel like the guy is just inhuman sometimes!
I guess I'm realizing that because neither one of us came from very solid family backgrounds that there are a lot of relationship issues that we are struggling to work through because we don't know how very well.
Like the other day, I was just having a really hard day and was just sad about having lost my trust. He came over later that evening and I wiped my tears away but then later started getting upset. He took it as since he came over I got upset and saidhe was just going to go and I told him I was upset before he even came over. He says well it seems like you're getting worse and I said no I feel like I'm getting better. First I was angry (extremely) now I'm more sad, I said something to the effect of the stages of grieving...(wow do we really have to analyze human emotion so much?). Anyway, after things getting tense a bit since it seems he doesn't want to deal with me and my emotions, I was frustrated because it seems like he just wants to live life without them...however, later it got better and we talked more and he opened up more to me and I asked him some burning questions that I've slowly been wanting to ask and he does seem to be genuine...
But then...
ok so financially I am strapped tighter than a corset. I am afraid to buy anything except what is absolutely necessary. I am still a SAHM, still dependent on my x (who lost his job but finally got another one not paying as much). I can't afford the luxuries I use to have like a cell phone, or whatever...I've been saying things about how strapped I am but he hasn't known to what extent, I guess. I received some money from my parents that they said for me to use to buy a cell phone and I told him this but then realized that it's only going to have to go to bills right now. Last week he had bought a satellite radio for his car (we both love music very much) and I was a bit annoyed but also excited about it and even asked if I could use it or whatever and he was a bit stingy...(now this is a man who is supposedly wanting to spend the rest of his life with me). Now he offered to possibly get a CHEAPER one for me but I said that I couldn't really afford the monthly payment and besides I figured money was kind of tight for him too (however he did do a bill consolidation recently so has more spending room).
Still in my own mind I know my priorities and that the bills have to get paid first, I can entertain the fantasy about such luxuries as a satellite radio but in reality just know I can live without it.
So I had told him that no I can't afford to do much of anything right now (and still need a cell phone or would really like to have one with two small children).
Now in the past he has mentioned to me about getting one and putting me on his plan, but I don't push anything. I just figured if he could afford it and wanted to get me one then he would right? Wrong.
So the other day he is all excited over a PDA. He is an electronics glut and was looking at all kinds of things and figured he wanted something to help him get organized. Now I have a PDA which I offered for him to use instead of buying one, but "no, it's not windows friendly" it's not this or that or the other thing...and THIS is someone who I am SUPPOSED to be planning a future with even though our finances are separate right now. I joked to him that he is an impulsive spender (which I know he can be sometimes) and I too have been known to spend money but I know also how to live within my means.
So I both joked and said well you'd better get it all out of your system now before I take over the finances. But I also said the next day that he really shouldn't buy one. Of course I'm getting irritated that he's even thinking of doing this when he knows full well that I still am struggling to pay my bills and STILL do not have a cell phone which I would really like to have (I got a flat when I was with my kids and fortunately HAD a cell at the time, but now I am afraid if anything happens without one now that I'm totally screwed). Not only this but my 3 year old daughter has been asking me over and over for a bed (she's still sleeping in her crib cuz I haven't been able to afford a toddler bed). The other night she was almost crying saying "I ask and I ask and I ask and you don't get me a small bed Mommy!" I puther in bed and she says (fighting back tears) "you can make me one like Daddy did" (and starts pounding as if with a hammer on the side of her crib) "you can make one for me". My heart is breaking because I can't even get a freakin bed for my daughter and she's practically in tears over it because her brother has one...so I told my bf this and he did offer to take me out and try to get her something.
BUT, the next day when I called him and asked him NOT to go buy this stupid PDA he had ALREADY gone out and purchased the damn thing!!!!!!!!!!!
Now we get into another argument because I am SO ANGRY that he seems so damn CLUELESS about possibly trying to help me out sometimes...He said "well I offered to get you a radio, I offered to put you on my phone plan, I offered to take you out and get DD a bed" and I say "don't you think this is a little out of balance?" I don't push issues because I think he may not have enough to help me out but then he goes and does stuff like this? I'm not going to say "Yes, get me a cell phone, yes get me a satellite radio, yes buy my daughter a bed". I mean I'm not going to tell him it's his responsibility when it's not! But it's like he doesn't even say to himself, "well I know J really needs this and so let me just go get it" but instead he goes and buys something very expensive for himself...!!!!!!!
Also, it seems that whenever people he knows seem to need help he helps them and meanwhile when I say that my house is a tornado and I really need to clean it, it doesn't seem to mean anything. Of course, if I ASK then yes he would come over and help. He has done things around here to help me like installing a ceiling fan in my DD's bedroom and even last weekend he came over with his son while all our kids were playing and he washed my dishes and swept and mopped the floor and cleaned up the LR. But that doesn't happen very often. We all spend a lot of time together with our kids and I have more toys AND I'm not as uptight so I let them play and make a mess but it means I have a lot more to clean. AND usually when we are together in the evenings, I will make dinner for ALL of us, I take the initiative to treat even him and his son as I would my family.
That I suppose is the problem I am having is that he doesn't seem to initiate anything on his own to treat me as his partner. It's like I'm still completely independent and am just responsible for whatever. Now he did offer some things and he has helped me in the past but usually ONLY when I say something. I would expect someone who considers themselves to be my SO to anticipate the other person's needs and not just wait until they insist on them.
So last night I'm thinking that maybe he realizes where I'm coming from and might even surprise me or something (which I have RARELY known him to do, but yet on other occasions when I know he needs something I am THERE without him ever having to ask - e.g. he's been sick a few times since we were together and though I don't have much money, I went out bought him a bunch of stuff and came back and made him food, medicine and even kept his son occupied so he could lay down). But last night he decided to go over and hang out at his friends house and have a few drinks instead. Didn't call, said he drove by but all the lights were off so he didn't stop.
I am so FRUSTRATED right now! I know I can't expect him to be a mind reader but I feel like he is so self absorbed sometimes that he can't see past his nose! I am trying to think how I can MAKE people Christmas presents right now because I can't afford to buy them and he's out buying himself a new toy....or a couple of them!
Sometimes I feel like this man really is CLUELESS to being human! I mean he's not always like that he can be kind and considerate...
In the beginning of our relationship I used to absolutely bend over backwards for him and slowly I stopped doing all of that because I felt like I wasn't getting much in return. He has made effort to do some things and has bought some things for me that I needed without me asking but I feel like for the most part he's in his own CLUELESS self-absorbed world! He says I'M being selfish because he just spent a crapload of money for my bday (which he did) for US to go away and even got gifts for me, but I can't USE a trip away to pay my bills or to get something I really need like a cell phone or to buy a bed for my DD!!!!!
I am a very passionate person and in the past I was always very direct, sometimes even to a fault. I wear my heart on my sleeve. I usually have always been so direct sometimes that I've had to tone it down and realize when I'm wrong. In this relationship I have become so undirect that it's made me nuts. I have become so careful about displaying my feelings whatever they may be and have tried to be careful to know when and if I am in the wrong but I am voicing myself again. I show my love and I say so. Sometimes I feel like I have to play guessing games because he's either too proud or too insecure to let me know if he's vulnerable or if he wants something... Sometimes I feel like I'm dating a brick wall...now maybe I'm just saying that because I'm mad but I am frustrated that I feel like this! I wish I could say "why don't you pay as much attention to someone else as you do to yourself"...
Maybe I've just been too clingy so that he thinks he can just do whatever he wants and I will stay but I'm spending more time by myself. He really thinks he is right and I just don't know because so often I feel like he is so self-absorbed....I'm telling you, this relationship thing for me is like putting a fish in jello. However, "my therapist says" (anyone see Hope and faith last night? lol!) that by pushing people away when things are hard that I would be depriving myself of close relationships...I can't win.
So am I overreacting?
Edited 11/12/2005 1:58 pm ET by quirky_girl

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In short, yes. It's his money and he is allowed to spend it however he wants. You aren't married so you have no say on how he spends HIS money. Whether or not you agree. And while it would be nice if he helped you clean, or bought your DD a bed, or came over when you were sick or whatever, no where is he required to do any of that. If you want it, you need to ask. It would be really nice if he just did it or offered sincerely, but he doesn't HAVE to do it. You two are just dating. Maybe seriously, but you are just dating.
I think he thinks he can do whatever he wants because quite honestly, he can.
Jen
P.S. BTW, look in the paper for ads for toddler beds or check consignment shops. Retail one would run you $30-$50 and I KNOW you can get one at a yard sale/consignment or in the ads quite a bit cheaper.
It's his money and he can spend it on whatever he wants. It is totally wrong of you to ask him to not buy himself a PDA or to be annoyed with him for buying a satelite radio. Also, considering that you've been debating the future of your relationship and are still crying about lost trust, why would he give you money? For all he knows, you may up and leave him next week.
You said >>It's like I'm still completely independent and am just responsible for whatever.<< And quite right too. This is the way it should be until you've married him or at least moved in together.
I also question your statement "well you'd better get it all out of your system now before I take over the finances". I heard you say that you were joking, but most jokes have an element of truth. In good relationships, one person DOES NOT get to make arbituary decisions about the money. At what point did he agree that if/when you marry, you will be in charge of the money? What if he does't want to be a spendthrift like you?
Housework? Again, you live seperately - he shouldn't be expected to volunteer with your housework. He will help if you ask him - and this should be good enough. Having extra housework is part and parcle of being a single mom. Get used to it.
I'm also confused about him buying the things that you need. He's offered to buy you some stuff, but then it doesn't happen. What I'm wondering is, at what point do you say "OMG, THAT WOULD BE WONDERFUL. LET'S GO OUT ON SATURDAY AND BUY IT!" Take him up on the offer immediately.
Lastly, if I were him, I'd be very over you continuing to cry about lost trust. I understand that you are 'greiving', but grief is reserved for something that you had and will never have again. If you honestly believe that you will never have trust again, then end the relationship. Or if you think you CAN trust him again, quit with the grief and move on. At this point, continuing to be self indulgent with grief will only continue the torment for both of you. While ever you remain grieving, you are in a neutral place and not working productively to rebuild trust.
Aisha, I don't agree with you about the lost trust issue. You are awfully harsh about your opinions and trust takes time to rebuild. You seem to be the only one in agreement with him when everywhere else I'm am being told otherwise. If you completely lost your trust in someone, despite what the issue was about, then I am sure it would take anyone quite a while to regain it and I for one think that plan of action involves the other person taking interest and responsibility for what they've done to destroy that not just my "pulling up my boot straps" and getting over it.
I am working productively to resolve this issue but it takes effort on his part too esp since he created this problem so I would really appreciate it if you didn't comment on that issue since I very much disagree and do not think I am being "self-indulgent" when it comes to trusting or mistrusting the person I love.
Ok I understand that his money is his...however even in conversation we have said that what is each of ours is also the other persons... for instance I have a very expensive camera that he likes very much. He uses it probably more than I do but has not helped to pay for it though I've asked if he could because of how much he uses it.
Despite the fact that we are living separately, we have planned on being together. I understand that you don't expect things from someone you shouldn't rightly expect them from, however I don't feel that he gives much to me as I do to him to treat the other person in a way that foreshadows what it will be like if we were married.
I go over to his house, I help him clean, I wash his dishes, I make him dinners, lunches, bake him stuff...I do his laundry, I fold his laundry & put it away, I iron for him. I do so many extras that I don't "have" to do but I do them. And when he's seen me not do these things he's asked why I don't do them as much anymore or has hinted that he would like me to do them, however I don't feel like he is pulling his weight here.
When we both have our kids, I make them dinner - I make all of us dinner. Usually if he is here he is sitting on the couch or maybe playing with the kids. If I go to his house, I make ALL of us dinner, then I do the dishes and before we leave I make sure the house is picked up...meanwhile whenever he comes over here, he doesn't do anything (except of course that one day that he actually did help me clean up).
I'm tired of doing all this and feeling like I'm giving myself like I would if I were to be married to him and I feel like he doesn't. I try to take care of him in the ways that I can that I would if we were married but I don't feel like I get that in return from him, like he is the man in my life who wants to look out for me...shouldn't we be showing behaviors to one another of how it will be like later? If he needs something or wants something I try to anticipate that. But I feel as though my needs or wants have to shoved down his throat in order for him to think of me like I do of him...
I realize his money is his and mine is mine, however for some reason it still doesn't make me feel any better....
P.S. - he has also said that he realizes he is a bit impulsive when it comes to spending money and that he "needs" to be kept in check. We have talked about me taking care of both of our finances eventually and I know the reason he doesn't now is because he doesn't want me to know how much he really does spend (his words).
Edited 11/12/2005 5:52 pm ET by quirky_girl
"shouldn't we be showing behaviors to one another of how it will be like later?"
I think he IS showing you what it will be like later. You need to decide if this is the future you want.
mesage deleted.
Jen (imasillynut) summed it up beautifully.
Edited 11/12/2005 11:12 pm ET by iv_aisha2004
Yup, I'm there with Geo. I agree that he IS showing you what he will be like later. And if you have a problem with it now, you will definitely have a problem with it later.
And as to what Aisha said, nowhere did I see her say that you should just automatically trust him now or anything like that. She said to quit "grieving" it. Stop bemoaning it. It can still not be there but crying about it (especially in front of him) or continually going on and on about it (which I'm not saying you are) in a non-constructive manner isn't going to get you anywhere. It just means that now you are cautious and you don't trust him, not that you carry on about it.
And I also heard you say that you understand that it's his money and he's said this and that will eventually or may eventually happen, but up until it does, it's HIS life, HIS money, and HIS right to do what he wants. You want him to help pay for the camera or use it less? Then stop letting him use it. If that's not how you think you should behave, then let him use it and stop being upset about not having the $$ for it's use. You are upset that you do so much from him and don't get enough in return, then stop doing so much and when he comments about it, tell him that since he doesn't do it for you, you don't think you should do it for him. (Which is a BAD attitude, IMO.) But if you think that it really shouldn't matter or that really shouldn't be your attitude, then change it.
Honestly, if I were him, I wouldn't like this attitude of "you must give me enough if I give you this much." I hate it. You do things because you love someone, not because you expect something in return. And you are expecting something in return. Otherwise you wouldn't get upset when it's not there.
Jen
Edited 11/12/2005 11:11 pm ET by imasillynut
>>shouldn't we be showing behaviors to one another of how it will be like later?<<
He IS showing you what it's going to be like. The problem is, you're not accepting what you're seeing. You're trying to make a sow's ear into a silk purse....it ain't gonna happen. What you've got now is as good as it's ever going to be. It would be unrealistic of you to expect him to be any better when you marry or live together.
Quirky Girl, I totally agree that a couple should pretty much give equally in a relationship. However, as far as housework goes, he's strongly indicating that he never intends to match you. If he's not doing it now - when you're not even married - expect even less help form him when you ARE married.
For now, STOP doing all those favours for him. And when he asks why you've stopped, TELL HIM. Tell him that he's a lazy **** and that you're damned if you're going to continue to do his meals and cleaning when he does not repay the favour. If you and your combined kids are at his house, let HIM cook and let HIM clean the dishes. If he doesn't bother and you all go hungry, then it's a clear indication of what married life will be with him.
(edited to add that I agree with Jen. This is a lousy option. However as you are counting favours there really isn't much choice except to do less for him)
Regarding the money issues....if what's yours is his and what's his is yours....what's stopping you from saying "Hey, my baby needs a bed. Any problems if we purchase one this weekend?"
Edited 11/12/2005 11:50 pm ET by iv_aisha2004
Edited 11/12/2005 11:51 pm ET by iv_aisha2004
>>And as to what Aisha said, nowhere did I see her say that you should just automatically trust him now or anything like that. She said to quit "grieving" it. Stop bemoaning it. It can still not be there but crying about it (especially in front of him) or continually going on and on about it (which I'm not saying you are) in a non-constructive manner isn't going to get you anywhere. It just means that now you are cautious and you don't trust him, not that you carry on about it<<
Yes, this is what I was trying to say. Thank you for writing it so eloquently.
"...the problem I am having is that he doesn't seem to initiate anything on his own to treat me as his partner. It's like I'm still completely independent and am just responsible for whatever." I hate to tell you Quirky, but you are not his partner, you are still completely independent and responsible for everything in your life; your finances, your children, all of it. I can absolutely understand you feeling jealous that he has money to spend on whatever and you're so tight you can't buy a thing that's not absolutely necessary, but the fact is, his financial standing is his and yours is yours. Two totally separate independent people, each responsible for themselves and their responsibilities only. I know it's hard to watch someone be able to frivolously spend when you're struggling to buy groceries, but that's the way it is right now. You may hate it, but you do have to face it. You can dislike the fact that he doesn't offer to help you out, and you certainly should pay attention to that if it's a trait you disagree or disapprove of -- this is a part of his character he's showing you. Your life and your struggles are not his, they are yours. You may wish that he'd step up and take care of it all for you, but he hasn't and it's not his responsibility to do so.
"So I both joked and said well you'd better get it all out of your system now before I take over the finances. But I also said the next day that he really shouldn't buy one." I understand you were kind of joking, but how do you know he'll want you to take over the finances? And a sobering thought - considering how differently the two of you spend money, I expect you can see some major clashes and struggles there. That should be another red flag to problems ahead for you. "But I also said the next day that he really shouldn't buy one." It isn't your place to tell him that he should or shouldn't buy one, unless he's asked you for your input. Like you, he's single, makes his own choices and manages his own finances.
"...on other occasions when I know he needs something I am THERE without him ever having to ask - e.g. he's been sick a few times since we were together and though I don't have much money, I went out bought him a bunch of stuff and came back and made him food, medicine and even kept his son occupied so he could lay down). But last night he decided to go over and hang out at his friends house and have a few drinks instead. Didn't call, said he drove by but all the lights were off so he didn't stop. " Here again, you're talking about choice. You chose to be there big time, that was, for all practical purposes, a gift, and like all gifts, you give them freely, because you want to, and cannot expect anything in return for them. He does not reciprocate in kind. Like it or not, this is his choice. Here again, I don't blame you for being upset and resentful, but you have no right to expect anything. But just like in the last situation described, you should be paying attention and noting his choices, this is his character he's showing you, and they will bleed over into other aspects, they'll show in other ways. You're getting a clearer picture of who he is.
A couple of thoughts and suggestions you didn't ask for. Cell phones are great, but they're a convenience. We lived with small children for hundreds of years without them and managed just fine. I've been in your shoes, single, small children, no money, no cell phone (everybody else had one). I survived -- and changed my own flats. You hate doing it, but it reaffirms your abilities, your independence; you don't need anyone, you can do just fine on your own. I have no idea how strapped you are, but how about taking the money your folks gave you for a toddler bed and buying a toddler bed frame at Goodwill, Salvation Army, Ebay or Craigslist? And if you're struggling, as embarrassing as it is, check into getting food stamps, it would help you make ends meet and keep your head above water, that's what it's there for.
~ cl-2nd_life"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."
~ Author unknown

my signature exchange partner:"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
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