Whose rights, what rights?
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Whose rights, what rights?
| Mon, 11-13-2006 - 11:18am |
In the middle of an argument my wife threw out the comment "I have no rights in this home!"
My question is, what rights can she be referring to? What rights does one have or should one have in a home or household? I don't consider myself an idiot but would find it difficult to enumerate what I could view as "rights" in a family.
Please supply your answers gently and without animosity, remember, I'm a man, and as such, claim ignorance as to some of the finer workings of a relationship.

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Thanks for your input. Although I agree with what you say about honouring our marriage vows, those are not the problems. When we are in good moods our attention to each other is exemplary. She is attentive and loving and I really exert myself to be there for her. Furthermore, the >to love, honor, cherish and be faithful< are not rights in my mind, but very desirable and essential for a good relationship.
It is when we communicate about things we view differently that the proverbial s%%t hits the fan.
Equality is a "nice" concept. It's like a political slogan, everyone can wave a flag for it but it is hard to define. No matter how hard I try to be "equal", I cannot be a woman so I lack a woman's point of view.
We share our economies exactly equal. Even down to me paying half for all her kids expenses on a monthly basis. When My kids have needed help, she has not hesitated to put her money where her mouth is (to use an old tired cliché).
I spend time with her kids, as she does with both my kids and my grandkids.
But when it comes to deciding what colour, or length or style the drapes should be, our communication breaks down. Or when I will clean out the garage. Such things turn into major events that end up in cold stand-offs.
But are these "rights"?
I've read your post and have many thoughts about it but will wait with expressing them. I have read all of John Gray's books and view them as trite "soup for the soul" kind of homilies.
I will, however, look up the other sites about fair fighting, etc.
Still looking for input on "rights".
Sharing expenses is great, and yes, that's equal. Equality is also about being on equal status, neither feeling superior to the other because of their gender, education or any other factor. Equal respect, equal power, equal say. **Edited to say: and equal in the areas I mentioned earlier, "You and your wife should have equal say in matters, equal consideration and equal freedoms." How does your relationship match up in those areas?
In my house, changes to carpet, draperies, furnishings and wall hangings have to be approved by both of us; we share the house, it should reflect both our tastes. No haggling, begging or badgering, unless we don't both love it, it's not the right item. That may work for us because our tastes are very similar. In some situations my husband will readily admit he's clueless and will defer to what I think is best, and there are other times that I'll go with his choice on an item if I know he really likes it and it's not that big a deal to me.
Other issues, such as garage cleaning are left up to the one doing the cleaning. For the most part, I wouldn't think the way one is cleaning the garage is of any consequence to the one who's not. If it's a matter of where things are being placed, what's being tossed out, etc., I'd say the arrangement should be something that's compatible to both of you and you should be able to compromise on where things are placed. In my marriage, if my husband is cleaning the garage and I want items kept that he wants tossed, they're mine to deal with. I figure out where they go and I'm responsible for putting them there.
It seems like the key here is compromise and mutual respect.
Henry, you're asking us for black and white definitions to issues that are different in every relationship. You're asking for specific explanations to very generalized problems. If you want specific answers, you'll have to go to the source, your wife, to find out what she sees as the problem. Us telling you general, basic relationship info isn't going to begin to touch your very specific issues and the very specific viewpoint of your wife. Only she can tell you what is bothering her, what she sees as problems and what specifically she means when she says she's not listened to. If you feel discussing with her won't help you, going with her to a licensed couples counselor will get you the information and the help you need, as the counselor will act as a mediator and a facilitator for both of you to be heard and understood.
~ cl-2nd_life"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."
~ Author unknown
Edited 11/14/2006 2:06 am ET by cl-2nd_life
"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
I've never gone through those chapters with a man who doesn't say that Gray is right on in what he says men "hear", likewise have I yet to hear a woman say she didn't agree that Gray was right on what he says a woman "hears". Since you've said you don't know that you'll "hear" what your wife says correctly as a reason for being here rather than asking her, I'd say reading a professional's explanation of what you can expect a woman to "hear" and "say" would be of the utmost of importance to you.
"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
Interesting. You and I have a different concept of 'equal'. You appear to look at equal in measurable terms such as time and money. But I view equal in terms of one's actions and how they show respect for their partner.
My husband believes my thoughts and ideas are equal in worth to his. He never tries to out-do my opinions with his own. Likewise, I value his opinions and don't try to beat them down. Because we know the other will give our opinions due respect, we never feel the need to express our opinions in a way that leads to argument.
Financially? We've always just contributed whatever we could to the household budget and mortgage. Though I do understand that the 50/50 way of budgeting works well for many couples....just not for us. However, even though I earn substantially less than my husband, I do get equal decision making in how finances are spent.
We've just been through a major renovation so I hear you on decision making. If we cannot agree, we simply listen to each other and go away to think about it. Quite often one of us will end up having a different idea or suitable compromise that negates the need for an arguement. But the absolute requirement here is flexibility and knowing that my own ideas are not the only way to do things.
~ cl-2nd_life"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."
~ Author unknown
Edited 11/14/2006 2:33 am ET by cl-2nd_life
"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
I've only read the first 11 responses, so forgive me if the thread has already gone to where I'm headed.
I have a little bit of a different take on the subject. Although every person has "rights" and "equality" in a marriage is ideal as far as decision making in major areas like finances and joint vs individual goals, non violence, etc., I don't get the feeling that THAT is your problem. Instead, I think your wife is not fighting fair.
She "wins" arguments by stopping you cold with her absolutes of "never" and "always." That's not fair. It simply diverts attention from the question at hand, and since you can't defend yourself, she kicks the winning feild goal!
Some professional assistance in assessing whether this is truly the "normal" dynamic for you two, and working on making you both fair fighters, is probably a good idea. But in the meantime, you need to understand that her uttering the absolute doesn't make it true. Try and prepare yourself for the (inevitable?) diversionary tactic, and say "Dont' change the subject - the issue we're discussing is ______. "
Hope this helps!
LRM
You might consider reading the rest of the thread.
"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
I appreciate your response. You're completely right that my wife stops me cold with her absolute statements of "never" or "always". The frustration I feel when such comments come actually blocks my thinking patterns. I know at that point that any further input from my side will only lead to a deeper argument, without any resolution. So I back away.
I withdraw from the battle ground, but I am extremely unhappy in doing so. The emotional turbulence that I feel caught up in when we reach such an impass is not dissimilar to going into a depression. Emotionally, if not physically, I withdraw into a little ball. I remove myself from the storm by not responding.
Unfortunately, the storm persists in my head. Whirlwinds of opposing thoughts and perceivable actions tumble and turn within my brain until I'm completely confused. Lately my only retreat has been in sleep. I get my brain to quiet down and I fall into a slumber that gives little solace or rest, but keeps a semblance of order to my thoughts.
I recognize that the use of absolutes is something instilled in me from an early age. My mother still uses this kind of discussion stopping tactic. Although I'm a lot older and marginally wiser I still feel trapped into thought patterns established from my youth. Whenever I meet up with this kind of argument I revert to a primitive response of "fight or flight"...and from my statements above, you can see which I choose.
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