Would this help?

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-22-2006
Would this help?
62
Fri, 07-21-2006 - 3:33pm

Sorry for starting another thread, but I wanted to start a clean thread. If this thread needs to be merged with my other thread, please do so.

After playing golf 3 days in a row, my hubby stayed home yesterday. Like I mentioned in my other thread, we were cordial. I did NOT talk about anything to him because I wanted to re-evaluate some things that I can work on...such as not pushing when he doesn't want to talk. I've read and been thinking about this "main" conversation piece that my hubby said 2 night ago. (please read below)

Hubby: See, that's exactly what I mean about the denial. There you go again in denial. You like to fight and let the whole world know our business and I'm not like that. You like to yell and scream. I don't like to yell and scream. I am passive-agressive. I'll let it go and then I have to yell back. I know myself that I don't yell. You say I'm the one that starts the yelling first, however, I know I don't do that. Like I said I let it go until I'm pushed into a corner. All the yelling and screaming, its like emotional abuse. I can't deal with it and I don't know how to handle it.

I have painted a picture of myself that I like to fight, in reality, I don't like to. However, my hubby thinks I do. How can I:

1. Get my hubby to know that I don't like to fight. It seems like when I open my mouth, he thinks I'm going to start one. Maybe he already thinks that I'm going to fight as soon as I open my mouth, however, I don't want to give him this impression anymore. What are some suggestions?

2. After I gave him the letter of apology, he said "You still don't understand why I am upset". The things that come to mind is (1) he thinks I blame and criticize and then tells the whole world our business (like at the golf course); and (2) He thinks I like to fight, scream and yell. So my question is should I write him another letter validating his feelings on these issues?

I took the suggestion by dirextor about TELLING your hubby that you are committed in this marriage and that you are there for him when he feels comfortable enough to discuss it.

I also took the suggestion by about checking check in with him in a few days and ask if he would like to chat (well, I kind of did it in a round about way.

I left him a voice message stating that "I am committed to the marriage for life and that I will be here for him when he feels comfortable enough to discuss it, even if I litterally have to put tape over my mouth if this would help". (Yes, I actually stated the tape over my mouth in the message. I did 2 things I wanted to accomplish, letting my hubby know I am here and committed to this marriage and brought up if he would like to chat and then I DROPPED it. Don't worry, I will not be bringing this up again. After that, I changed the subject about something else that had NOTHING to do with the relationship)

I hope this voice message that I left my hubby was ok that he doesn't think I am trying to push. I'm NOT trying to push, really I'm not because I'm learning to drop it after one time but I wanted to take the advice from orangcuse just to check in.

Any thoughts, suggestion and advice? By the way, since I joined this board, I have really truly learned alot from everyone and after many posts, I actually am getting this eventhough it may not look that way.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 10-13-2004
Thu, 08-03-2006 - 2:29am

Casey, I've been mulling this over for a little while and hope I'm not too late.

Regarding the morning kisses and checking in during the day, I would say that instead of discussing it, start to initiate it yourself.

Sometimes when DH is leaving for work, I initiate the kiss and sometimes it's him. Likewise, he often checks in during the day - but if he doesn't call and I want a chat, I call him. Of course, there are occaisions when he says "I'm really busy and don't have time to talk", but mostly he's happy to have me call.

You mentioned that he's *always* kissed you first in the morning. Remember how he needs you to initiate affection? This is another reason for you to start kissing him first sometimes. If you call him and kiss him sometimes, I bet he'll start to call and kiss you again in return.

While going back to how you used to be before the fight would be nice, I think it's unrealistic to expect things to go back to being exactly the same. It was a huge fight and would certainly have changed things. That's not to say that it can't be good again, but I expect that there will be a degree of things being good in a slightly different way. The days of sleepy morning kisses may be gone, but that doesn't mean they can't be replaced with another type of affection.

Think of an analogy of your house burning down. Not an old dump of a house, but a place you really like and were very content in. It's devestating, but you know you can built it again. However, when you actually start building, you realise that you want to tweak things a little....you keep the layout the same and you re-build and paint the living room in the same way as before. But you may redesign the kitchen or the style of doors.

A relationship is a bit like a house. It's always morphing and changing to suit the changing needs of the couples. Mostly it's just tiny tweaks, but after a big disaster, there are likely to be large changes.

Dress Up Games, Doll Makers and Cartoon Dolls @ The Doll Palace
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-22-2006
Sun, 08-06-2006 - 8:57pm

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I got to admit, its very hard giving to him because he hasn't reached out hardly at all. When we go some place, we don't even hold hands. And its not like we both have our hands in our pockets, because we don't. I did initiate holding his hand yesterday, but I feel its ME making all the effort these last 2 weeks. I got to admit, its NOT very fun feeling I'm making 90% of the effort right now. Every day I wake up in the morning thinking "what can I do for my hubby to let him know I'm proud of him" whether it be doing the laundry so he won't have to, cooking him a meal eventhough he doesn't ask for it, leaving him a text message or just simply calling him to just say "hi". I don't get anything from him except "hey do you want to play golf" and he sometimes kisses me before he leaves for golf. But he isn't reaching out as much. It bothers me ALOT. Because I think will he come around or won't he...right now, my answer is the latter.

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Its hard to stay positive when I'm doing most of the effort. Yes, I am "measuring" the effort I'm putting out, but I can't help it. How long does it take for him to come around? I mean it will be exactly 2 weeks tomorrow.

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I don't really know how to be more clearer on the kissing in the morning before he goes to work that I can be. You see, I go to bed at 12:30a.m. and he has to be up by 5:30a.m., therefore, I'm pretty much asleep. Its not like I can wake up when he wakes up, unless I set my alarm clock, therefore, I'm pretty much in a heavy sleep by the time he gets up. I do feel his kiss before he leaves for work, however, I do NOT hear him when he gets up. Therefore, its hard for me to initiate kissing him in the morning before he leaves. I really hope I'm making sense because I have tried to explain this several ways and it keeps being read that I should initiate the kiss before he leaves. Therefore, I'm trying to say its hard because I'm a heavy sleeper. Sometimes I don't even feel his kiss before he leaves but for the most part I do. I sure hope I'm making more sense now with this issue.

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Maybe this is the part I really don't understand. Just because it was fight (no more than our normal fights), why would things have to change?

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-13-2004
Mon, 08-07-2006 - 12:51am

>>Maybe this is the part I really don't understand. Just because it was fight (no more than our normal fights), why would things have to change?>>

Because a huge, ding dong fight like what you just had will change the way someone feels about their partner and the relationship. And when one feels differently about their partner and the relationship, their actions will change too. And if a couple frequently fights like this, I would imagine that the effects would be even more magnified.

I often see posters who feel that an apology should fix the previous fight and all should return to normal - but if the future fighting style doesn't change, then an apology means nothing. Also, an apology can't undo words or actions. I get the feeling that *both* of you are inclined to speak out of line and think a "sorry" will fix it all.

Anyway, because I believe a relationship will change after huge and/or frequent fights - it is why I keep advocating for you to learn to hold your tongue. The more fights you have, the more damage will be done to your relationship.

I understand that it's been two weeks with him not being the same person. But the problems have been around for many, many months. You can't expect everything to be forgotten in the course of a week or two. What is needed for his trust in you to be rebuilt is time and unrelenting demonstration that things have changed for the better.

Lastly, I do agree with you that it seems he may have checked out of the marriage. But just because he's checked out doesn't mean that he'll naturally want a divorce. He may be happy to live in a cold marriage rather than admit defeat and ask for a divorce. Or he may be stubborn and feel that the only way that there is a divorce is if you ask for one.....especially if he's the type to turn around and blame you by saying "well, I didn't want a divorce - you asked for it!" while conveniently forgetting that he was already emotionally divorced.

What I'm getting at is: he may not want a divorce, but he may not be interested in trying either. He may just be happy to do nothing and leave the big decision to you.

Dress Up Games, Doll Makers and Cartoon Dolls @ The Doll Palace
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-30-2006
Mon, 08-07-2006 - 12:09pm

This may be none of my business but can I ask why the kiss in the morning is so important to you when sometimes you don't even feel it? Is it maybe that he just doesn't want to wake you?

I have to agree with the other poster that it sounds like maybe he's checked out right now. If my DH fought with me often, and over such silly stuff as you guys do, I guess I'd probably check out too, and wouldn't have an interest in talking with him anymore. To me, it wouldn't be worth the effort for fear there would be a fight. Now if he showed me by his actions that we could slowly build back up to a good relationship then I would cautiously be happy to do so.

Have you all been married long? You mentioned that he doesn't hold hands when you are out. Do any men do that after the initial dating stage??? Mabye some do, but I've sure never been with one that did. I'm not sure if I was your DH that I would ever feel like I was living up to your standards, a kiss every morning, a check in every day, a kiss when I got home before I did anything else, holding hands when we go out. For me personally I would feel a lot of pressure from you to live up to your expectations.

There may be men out there that will do all these and enjoy doing so. Perhaps if your husband isn't that kind of guy then you are mismatched. In that case I feel like you'll both have to give a little for your marriage to have a chance. I do wish you the best of luck.

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-22-2006
Mon, 08-07-2006 - 12:29pm

>>iv_aisha wrote - Lastly, I do agree with you that it seems he may have checked out of the marriage. But just because he's checked out doesn't mean that he'll naturally want a divorce.>>

If my hubby did check out of our marriage (and eventhough he may not want a divorce) does it mean he can't be loving again?

>>ldack1 wrote - This may be none of my business but can I ask why the kiss in the morning is so important to you when sometimes you don't even feel it? Is it maybe that he just doesn't want to wake you?>>

The kiss is important to HIM (so I thought). When we started dating, he would always kiss me before he left work just in case if something were to happen to him, the "kiss" would be something I would remember. Just like when I would come home from workig the night shift, he would want me to kiss him just before he slept (again just in case something happened to him if he didn't wake up). I used to do this before I became unemployed.

>>You mentioned that he doesn't hold hands when you are out. Do any men do that after the initial dating stage??? Mabye some do, but I've sure never been with one that did. I'm not sure if I was your DH that I would ever feel like I was living up to your standards, a kiss every morning, a check in every day, a kiss when I got home before I did anything else, holding hands when we go out. For me personally I would feel a lot of pressure from you to live up to your expectations.>>

Yea, my hubby did hold my hand alot. Before this "big" fight, my hubby "always" checked in just to say hi or he would hold my hand. So what I'm saying is before this fight, he used to call during the day, be affectionate and give me a kiss first when he comes home, however, since the "big" fight, he doesn't do all this, therefore, I still think something is wrong. Hope I am making sense.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-30-2006
Mon, 08-07-2006 - 5:09pm
Well, if he did all these things regularly before the fight then I understand why you'd be concerned. How did your last week go? Did you watch tv together, go golfing, eat supper together, etc? Do you feel things are improving even though he's not yet doing the things he used to? Have you been able to reach out to him first and watch what you say to him? I'm hoping that if you two continute to improve that he will start doing these things again, or that you'll at least get to a place where you'll feel comfortable talking about it with him, calmly. :-)
iVillage Member
Registered: 10-13-2004
Mon, 08-07-2006 - 5:21pm

>>If my hubby did check out of our marriage (and eventhough he may not want a divorce) does it mean he can't be loving again?<<

He may become loving again, but that would mean that he'd have to check back in to the marriage. One can't be checked out and loving at the same time.

One needs to feel love in order to show love. If he's feeling no love for you or desire to talk to you (therefore checked out), it stands to reason that he'll show no affection.

Dress Up Games, Doll Makers and Cartoon Dolls @ The Doll Palace
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-22-2006
Mon, 08-07-2006 - 5:50pm

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I was trying to say could he have maybe checked out "temporarily"? Because if he checked out "permanently" (without wanting a divorce), then it wouldn't be fair to me (which I feel would be selfish on HIS part).

I called my hubby at work today just to say "hi". The conversation happen to come along that let me share with him about something. And that something happened to be that was said in my 43 post on this thread. I told him "every morning I wake up thinking about what I can do to show him that I love him and to let him know I'm proud of him whether it be doing the laundry so he wouldn't have to, cooking him dinner, sending him a text message or just to call to say "hi". I told him I'm NOT doing it for him, but I'm doing it for ME. I don't know. Maybe he will realize that I am putting forth effort in this marriage. But then again, maybe it will just go in one ear and out the other.

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Last week went ok. We golfed several times (yes, he did ask me if I wanted to golf and even when I said no, he asked me again to make sure). Yes, we did eat dinner a couple of times (but the times that we didn't was because I wanted to eat earlier). We have watched a couple of movies together. However, as far as being affectionate, he only initiated being affection once compared to me initiating kissing or holding his hands 7 times.

I've also watched my tongue this last 2 weeks. I got to admit, it has been difficult but I'm doing better about it.

Is there something that I may be missing? I can't see the whole picture sometimes because I'm "in" the situation to where an outsider can probably see things better because they are on the "outside looking in". Hope that makes sense.

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-13-2004
Tue, 08-08-2006 - 12:36am

>>I was trying to say could he have maybe checked out "temporarily"? Because if he checked out "permanently" (without wanting a divorce), then it wouldn't be fair to me (which I feel would be selfish on HIS part).<<

Maybe he's checked out temporarily....only time will tell. And yes, if he's checked out permanently and simply not wanting to concede defeat and ask for a divorce - then it *is* selfish on his part. If this is the case, there's nothing you can do to change his behaviour - you can only observe it shrewdly. What you *can* do is make your own decisions.

>>I called my hubby at work today just to say "hi". The conversation happen to come along that let me share with him about something. And that something happened to be that was said in my 43 post on this thread. I told him "every morning I wake up thinking about what I can do to show him that I love him and to let him know I'm proud of him whether it be doing the laundry so he wouldn't have to, cooking him dinner, sending him a text message or just to call to say "hi". I told him I'm NOT doing it for him, but I'm doing it for ME. I don't know. Maybe he will realize that I am putting forth effort in this marriage. But then again, maybe it will just go in one ear and out the other.<<

I wouldn't have said this if I were you. Based on your posts, he's shown and said time and time again that he dislikes deep and meaningful conversations. He's the kind of guy who responds to actions - not words. Conversations like this will most likely cause him to shut down a little futher. Keep focused on your quietly achieving - and avoid discussing your actions.

One of the posters said sometime ago that they wish they could see your relationship and the dynamics. I couldn't agree more. While I can easily see why he's reacting like he is, we all know there are two sides to every story. I wish I could see his behaviour .... it could well change my view of things.

Anyway, if you're continually getting nothing in return and it goes on too long - YOU may have to make that stay or go decision. How long is too long? Only you can decide.

Dress Up Games, Doll Makers and Cartoon Dolls @ The Doll Palace
iVillage Member
Registered: 10-13-2004
Tue, 08-08-2006 - 2:40am

Thinking further about all the effort you are putting in, could it be that you're putting *too much* effort in?

I firstly say this because you're becoming exhausted from all the effort.

But I also say this because I believe one can't sustain this long term. As somebody else said recently on this thread, the hand holding doesn't last forever. (My DH doesn't hold my hand either anymore. When we walk, I initiate putting my arm through his) Once a couple is over the honeymoon stage, the couple relaxes into a more comfortable phase and the intense affection goes away. That's not to say that all the affection will go - far from it - but it *does* taper off quite a bit.

I understand that you're getting zero affection at present, and this is unacceptable. But try to not aim to have it go back to how it was when you first married. Affection does taper off. It is normal and is to be expected.

Anyway, instead of busting a gut trying to think of special things to do - why don't you try and act normal? Of course, it's a given that you will avoid fighting, but just let the rest of it come naturally.

When DH and I first met, he did not shower me with flowers or romance. He stated plainly that he was not that type of guy. He said that all that romance comes to an end anyway and he didn't want to set me up for disappointment. Could it be that your husband knows all the romantic stuff is not sustainable long term is therefore is not being influenced by it?

Ask yourself honestly if you will be able to keep up this romantic effort every day of your life. If not, then drop the facade now. Personally, I don't think anyone is capable of it.

Be pleasant, non confrontational, don't have deep and meaningfuls and keep the effort to an sustainable level.

Dress Up Games, Doll Makers and Cartoon Dolls @ The Doll Palace

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