Would this help?
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| Fri, 07-21-2006 - 3:33pm |
Sorry for starting another thread, but I wanted to start a clean thread. If this thread needs to be merged with my other thread, please do so.
After playing golf 3 days in a row, my hubby stayed home yesterday. Like I mentioned in my other thread, we were cordial. I did NOT talk about anything to him because I wanted to re-evaluate some things that I can work on...such as not pushing when he doesn't want to talk. I've read and been thinking about this "main" conversation piece that my hubby said 2 night ago. (please read below)
Hubby: See, that's exactly what I mean about the denial. There you go again in denial. You like to fight and let the whole world know our business and I'm not like that. You like to yell and scream. I don't like to yell and scream. I am passive-agressive. I'll let it go and then I have to yell back. I know myself that I don't yell. You say I'm the one that starts the yelling first, however, I know I don't do that. Like I said I let it go until I'm pushed into a corner. All the yelling and screaming, its like emotional abuse. I can't deal with it and I don't know how to handle it.
I have painted a picture of myself that I like to fight, in reality, I don't like to. However, my hubby thinks I do. How can I:
1. Get my hubby to know that I don't like to fight. It seems like when I open my mouth, he thinks I'm going to start one. Maybe he already thinks that I'm going to fight as soon as I open my mouth, however, I don't want to give him this impression anymore. What are some suggestions?
2. After I gave him the letter of apology, he said "You still don't understand why I am upset". The things that come to mind is (1) he thinks I blame and criticize and then tells the whole world our business (like at the golf course); and (2) He thinks I like to fight, scream and yell. So my question is should I write him another letter validating his feelings on these issues?
I took the suggestion by dirextor about TELLING your hubby that you are committed in this marriage and that you are there for him when he feels comfortable enough to discuss it.
I also took the suggestion by about checking check in with him in a few days and ask if he would like to chat (well, I kind of did it in a round about way.
I left him a voice message stating that "I am committed to the marriage for life and that I will be here for him when he feels comfortable enough to discuss it, even if I litterally have to put tape over my mouth if this would help". (Yes, I actually stated the tape over my mouth in the message. I did 2 things I wanted to accomplish, letting my hubby know I am here and committed to this marriage and brought up if he would like to chat and then I DROPPED it. Don't worry, I will not be bringing this up again. After that, I changed the subject about something else that had NOTHING to do with the relationship)
I hope this voice message that I left my hubby was ok that he doesn't think I am trying to push. I'm NOT trying to push, really I'm not because I'm learning to drop it after one time but I wanted to take the advice from orangcuse just to check in.
Any thoughts, suggestion and advice? By the way, since I joined this board, I have really truly learned alot from everyone and after many posts, I actually am getting this eventhough it may not look that way.

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Well, like I mentioned, the conversation happened to come along that lead me to say this part. After I got done telling him, he actually said he appreciated what I said and that he never knew the reason behind my action. He never knew the reason why I cooked him dinner was because I loved him and was proud of him. You see, I have NEVER told him I was proud of him until yesterday.
To be quite honest, I've actually have done something daily for him since I've known him, in fact, that's the way I was raised. When you love someone you try to show them daily how much they mean to you. It doesn't take much effort at all to think of something. For example if I think today I'll cook him dinner, however, it might take a while to think of something to cook for dinner but it doesn't take that much effort to think of what I can do for my hubby. Its actually quite effortlessly.
Sometimes I feel "communicating" is helpful. I mean if we don't "communicate" then what really do you have in a marriage? Communication is very important in a marriage, so I don't regret telling him. Maybe it helped me saying it, maybe it didn't, but last night when he came into the computer room (I was already on my pc), he walked up to me open up a fudsicle bar and gave it to me. I thought that was sweet. Usually he just gets snack for himself. However, then again, maybe I'm just looking to much into it. Nonetheless, it was a nice gesture.
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The truth is I didn't think it was a "deep" conversation. It only took like a minute for me to share it. I really don't think a "meaningful" conversation bothers him at all. About a couple of months ago, he shared something with me and I told him "thanks for sharing that with me, I really appreciate it". I told him we need to share more often and he agreed. I just think the reason why we both don't is because of all the fights. Hope this makes sense.
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It was firstamendment that said this and like I mentioned, if you guys were flys on the wall, maybe you might think I come across worse than I do on a message board (lol)
Just a reminder that while you are doing little gestures for him daily, don't forget to notice the ones he's doing too, because you have said that he's still not putting forth any effort. He did bring you the fudgsicle so that was a gesture. My DH is like yours, he'll come back with a snack for himself, but never for me. (which is fine) You also said he's asked you to golf a couple times. It's easy to recognize what you are doing for him, but don't forget to take notice of the ways he's trying too.
You are right, communication is very important in a marriage, but it doesn't mean you have to have a heartfelt conversation each day. I think most guys don't like to "talk" near as much as us girls. That's why we have girl friends. :-) I will always remember the time DH was talking to one of his very best friends. They talked a short while and then my DH said "ok, I'm tired of talking to you now, so I'm hanging up, goodbye". Rude to most? Of course. My DH had done all the talking he cared to do at that moment, and he was done. His friend totally understood cause he's a guy too.
Sounds like things are improving for you two. You are doing some things for him, he's doing some things for you, and you're sharing time, watching tv, golfing. Sounds like a normal marriage to me.
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I didn't see your post until after I posted my comments. Anyways, like I mentioned in my other post, I don't bust a gut on thinking what I can do for him today...it just takes a few minutes to think of something. I feel there is so many things you can do for you spouse that it really take non-effort. For example, just calling him to say "hi" is me thinking this is what I can do for him...just ask him how is day is going.
Let me clear up something. I said he hasn't been affectionate...what I should have said is he is "rarely" affectionate. I must admit, I have noticed in the last several days, he has come up to me first and kissed me. Also, when he gave me the fudsicle, afterwards, I kissed him on the cheeck and said "thanks for bringing me the fudsicle". But he hasn't been "as" affectionate since the fight a couple of weeks ago.
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Maybe I'm a bit naive, but I see many married coupes, old and young, that have been married several years to several decades and I still see them holding hands when they walk in a store or the movies, etc. And its not always the women that initiate the affection. Therefore, I don't understand why it does or should taper off.
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Maybe I'm in the wrong, however, I know alot of married couples send text messages to their spouse on a daily basis. What is the difference between what they do and what I do? Personally, I see no difference. Doing laundry for my hubby so that he won't have to, I really don't qualify that as having a "romantic effort", but that is something I do sometimes as my daily thing on what I can do for my hubby. Hope this makes sense.
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Yes, I have noticed it and have thanked him for those gestures.
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I didn't say we have heartfelt conversation daily, however, I do think sometimes meaningful conversation need to be shared sometimes such as when I told my hubby I was proud of him. He never knew I was until yesterday.
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Maybe things are improving just a tiny, tiny, tiny bit, but I just don't feel its improving enough.
Casey,
Please don't take this wrong, cause I'm not trying to criticize you at all. Don't you think that maybe you expect a little too much from him?
Yes you see couples all around holding hands, etc but since you weren't with them all day, each day, how do you know they do it all the time? I know VERY FEW couples who keep up the romance like when they were dating for a long period of time.
Also, you said that when you make him supper or do the laundry for him those are gestures for him? Are they really, and if you do the laundry are you then expecting him to do something for you in return? I love cooking for my DH, and I do most of the laundry unles for some reason he throws in a load. Whether I was married or single I'd have to do these things. I don't think of them as me doing something for him, but as me doing the daily chores that need done every day. When he mows the lawn do you stop and think "oh, look, he's doing something for me"?
I send my DH a text message every day. I do it cause I want to. I don't expect a reply. If I get one, great, if not, that's fine. He's not me, and because he's not doing a gesture for me every time I do one for him doesn't mean there's a problem in our marriage.
In my first marriage, we were married very young. We grew into very different people. I either had to accept him as he was or not. We chose to divorce. I am now happily married to DH. He's not perfect, and he's not me. He is himself. Whether he's romantic, unromantic, grumpy, happy, that's his choice. I can either love him for the man he is, whether he's doing gestures for me or not, or I can try and find someone I feel is more compatible. Maybe you can keep up the gestures and romance long term, but perhaps your DH can't. That doesn't mean he doesn't love you or isn't trying, it just means his is who he is and he's not you.
You seem to expect a lot from him, always 50/50. Can you try expecting nothing from him for a while, and then be really surprised and happy when you do get something?
My DH rarely replies to my texts but the other day he sent one to me out of the blue saying he loved me very much. It meant much more to me than it would have if he did it every day.
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How am I expecting too much?
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I guess seeing my parents be affectionate during their marriage before my dad passed away. They were married for 24 years and every where they went (store, malls, movies) they were always holding hands. It got to be a little bit embarassing for me as a kid. But now as an adult I appreciate it.
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The reason why I brought up cooking him dinner...you see, I'm NO cook. I can barely boil water. I know that's funny and to be honest, it is, but that's how great of a cook I am. So, I started buying pre-cooked stuff that comes in a package. At least my heart is in the right place because he knows I'm trying. He told me he doesn't expect me to cook, but he appreciates the effort. I remembered the first time I made rice in the rice cooker. When the rice was done, it was actually crunchy. I know, I know...its a dang rice cooker and I still didn't cook it right. But, at least, my heart was in the right place. So, maybe that's why I feel its something I do for him as a gesture.
Regarding the laundry. I'm allergic to most detergent. I have to use an allergin detergent. Therefore, I have to use separate detergents when doing his laundry. He bought 2 big detergent bottles of Tide and he didn't want to throw it away. I understand that. Once that gets all gone, then he won't mind using the detergent that I have to use. But you see, I'm allergic to Tide and when I transfer his clothes from the washer to the dryer I sometimes get rashes on my hand because of the detergent. So, yea, I do think its a gesture.
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No, I'm not expecting anything in return. I do this daily gestures for ME
I guess I'm not very clear on the point I'm trying to make. Before the arguement (which happened a couple of weeks ago), he used to check in during the day, kiss me first when he came home, initiate affection. HOWEVER, since the arguement, he doesn't. I find it too much of a coincidence that it all stopped just because he feels comfortable in the marriage to where he doesn't need all that intense affection. And it has nothing to do with me expecting to much, really it doesn't. I just find it odd that he STOPPED all this since we made up (which was 2 weeks ago). Does this make sense?
I may have missed something in the other posts but in the last few I notice you refer to his change in behavior post conflict two weeks ago.
Peace,
Di
***If you cannot define yourself, your circumstances will.***
I did a long post yesterday, but apparently I forgot to do the final 'click' because it's not here :-(
so, I'll just comment on one thing for now.
>>Regarding the laundry. I'm allergic to most detergent. I have to use an allergin detergent. Therefore, I have to use separate detergents when doing his laundry. He bought 2 big detergent bottles of Tide and he didn't want to throw it away. I understand that. Once that gets all gone, then he won't mind using the detergent that I have to use. But you see, I'm allergic to Tide and when I transfer his clothes from the washer to the dryer I sometimes get rashes on my hand because of the detergent. So, yea, I do think its a gesture. <<
OK, NOW I'm seeing the other side to your husband. And as a fellow allergy sufferer, I see both of your reactions in this situation as totally bizarre.
First up, it would appear that your husband values laundry detergent more than your health. If this was my husband, he'd say "well, we'd better stop using that detergent!"
But to make things worse, you're going along with his bizarre expectations! Look, this doesn't have to be an arguement - you just need to be subversive. You can agree to keep the detergent and then shove the bottles in the back of the cupboard to be forgotten (and thrown away in a year)
I my house, I call the shots when my allergies are concerned.
A little more on behaviour.
If you can't cook, then why doesn't he cook? And if he won't cook and you can't cook, buying packaged meals is about survival - not love. I mean ...you gotta eat!
In all honesty, if my partner bought me packaged meals and said it was an act of love, I'd laugh at him.
Love aside, buying packaged meals is setting yourselves up for a future of health problems. Frozen meals are a cocktail of sugar, salt and additives. Even so-called 'healthy' packaged foods are not nearly as good as a well balanced home cooked meal. Living on this type of stuff will see you both become obese with heart disease and heading for early graves. You're killing him and yourself.
If you really want to show your love, learn to cook and prepare healthy meals. Learning to do something you find difficult is true love.
Seriously though, if your husband dislikes your culinary disasters - does he cook instead of you? If not, why not?
Edited 8/9/2006 9:19 pm ET by iv_aisha2004
Hi Casey,
I totally agree with iv aisha2004, about the laundry soap and the cooking.
If I was allergic to his laundry soap then I'd either toss it, or shove it to the back of the laundry cabinet. If he does his laundry occassionally and wants to use it, then fine for him. Does he really know the difference on wether you used yours or his? Being miserable with a rash for someone doesn't show love, it just itches. If he's got a problem with you wasting his detergent so as not to get a rash, too bad for him.
As for cooking. You can learn, trust me. When I first married no one could cook as bad as me. One of the first things I ever made my new DH at the time was a chef boy ardee pizza. The box contains 2 pizza's so you use 2 pizza pans. I know this makes me sounds like a real air head but the package specifically said bake 10 (or however many) minutes then switch pans. I went to my DH and asked him how I was going to get the half baked pizza's off the pans they were on so I could switch them, and why did they each need to be put on the other pan. Guess what, later in life I got a job as a cook, and now through lots of practice, and lots of cookbooks, I am a GREAT cook, most of the time. There was a time though that anyone would have thought I was hopeless in the kitchen. It can actually be a lighthearted fun experience if you can get him in the kitchen with you. My current DH laughed hysterically when I threw a loaf of wheat bread out into the yard that had failed, and it sounded like a brick hitting the ground. He said it was a good thing I didn't hit the dog, it would have killed him.
It does sound like you are really trying. Look for the little things (like cooking) that maybe you can suggest you try together. Get the relationship back to a lighthearted fun palce and grow from there.
Your cooking disasters reminds me of when I was learning to cook. I was cooking a romantic meal for my boyfriend. It was Oysters Kilpatrick and was done in the microwave (wow, how 80's was that!). Anyway, I went to the toilet and told my BF to watch the oysters for me. I heard a yell from the kitchen "hey are these oysters supposed to be flying around the microwave?"
And I've made scones that rival your loaf of bread.
But you're right, it's persistance and a lot of cook books (and help from friends) that get us there in the end. I finally made a successful lamb shank casserole last night. Heaven knows how many times I've tried them, but I was talking to a friend about my lamb shanks and she said "well, you've got to trim as much fat as possible off" Duh. And I've finally figured out the trick to a Thai Green Curry not getting a strange brown colour. My neighbour for a while was Lebanese Muslim. She used to send in plates of wonderful Lebanese home cooking and I wanted to learn. Her English was limited so she took me into her kitchen and showed me how to do it. I remember learning to roll vine leaves and having her rap my knuckles when they weren't tight enough!
The one thing I haven't learned yet is how to make cakes etc. My FIL is a retired pastry chef so I've never had to bake a birthday cake. And he makes wonderful apple pies. When he gets too old, I'll have to overcome my fear of cakes and learn :-/ At least DH grew up in his kitchens so he can probably help quite a lot.
Casey, you can learn to cook. It's like the rest of life - you learn by your mistakes and keep on trying.
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