Would love some honest opinions
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| Tue, 06-06-2006 - 10:57pm |
This is my first time on this message board. I guess I am desperate and would be so grateful for any feedback. I really can't (or choose not to) discuss my marital problems with family and the few friends that I do have, but I need some opinions, because I don't know how serious my problems really are. I just know that I am very unhappy.
First, I've been married for 17 years and we have 3 kids together--15, 12, and 1. I also raised my 2 stepdaughters from his first marriage, now out of the house, ages 23 and 18. In our 17 years of marriage, we've never been without conflict and stress. We have had happy times and have made efforts to improve, but we just can't seem to get where we want to be.
Just a few examples from this past week:
1) He started his own business a little over a year ago. We have taken about $40,000 out in home equity to help jump start it, as well as cashing in his 401K completely. Things are finally looking promising financially, as in we are making enough profit to pay our bills. Dh will not let me have access to his business account, which makes me nervous. I have always paid the bills and he is very irresponsible with paying anything on time. This month, he was late in transferring money from his business account to our joint checking account and when he finally did, it was just enough to cover our mortgage and that's it! It was $3000 short of what he told me it would be. He just did it and never warned me about it, so when I discovered it early on Sat. morning, I woke him up with some questions, and then we had some angry words. I am upset with him not because we are not making as much money as we need to be, but because he is not communicating with me and keeping me in the dark. He is upset with me because I am "controlling" and don't trust him.
2) We took our 12 year old out for lunch after her city track meet to celebrate her season. When it was time to get ready to go, he jumps in the shower. Our 1 yr old is pretty high maintenance, so I couldn't get ready at all, so I drove her over to our babysitters early and then began driving home to get ready (just change clothes and put on deoderant and makeup--15 minutes tops). Dh calls me and says "We'll meet you there". I tell him no, I just need 15 minutes and we can go as a family. It's a recurring theme. He likes to drive to church separately, go to the kid's events separately. You'd think I am ugly or something, but actually I am not at all, but for some reason, he likes to do everything without me. So we are in the parking lot and I tell him I just need one minute to put on eye liner, and he gets out of the car along with our 12 yr old and when I get to the lobby, he is no where in sight. They had already been seated. He does this to me all of the time. We go out on a date to the movies, and he leaves me in the dust. I always have to walk alone or 10 feet behind him because he walks so fast.
Needless to say, we didn't have a good lunch, which was a shame for my daughter. :(
3) Worst one--thank you if you have read this far--my 15 yr old wanted a sleepover this Friday and I said no. She has 6 final exams the following week and she takes all advanced classes. The previous weekend, she had friends over. The following weekend, she is having her sweet 16 party. She said that she asked me and I said yes, but I honestly don't remember saying yes to this weekend and even if I had, as her mother, I think I have the right to change it to a "no" for a good reason. She wouldn't accept my answer of "no", so she went to my husband, and he actually took her side and said that I shouldn't go back on my original yes. He said he would watch the girls. I am so angry about this. I believe he did this just because he was angry with me for the above two incidents and he knew how hurt I would be by this. The other thing is that I do 99% of the parenting to his 1%, and he really should have stood up for me.
I feel like my dh doesn't love or respect me. I'm pretty depressed about it. I have been sleeping on our sofa for two nights and have no desire to speak to him. He doesn't seem to care one way or the other. I told him that I wish he would just have an affair and leave me, that the way he is treating me makes me feel like crap.
Am I overreacting? I could give 100 more scenarios but the recurring theme is that my dh just doesn't respect me and really doesn't make an effort to change at all. He would say that I just want to be miserable and nothing makes me happy. I think just the opposite, that I am easy to please. I do have high standards in life, regarding goals, morals, etc., but I am harder on myself than anyone else. I raised his daughters, which was the hardest thing I have ever done, I took care of his mother the last year of her life in our home, I allowed his sister and her two teens into our home for six months several years ago. I have really been there for him. I don't want to leave him, but I would be relieved if he left me. Does that make any sense at all?
Thoughts? Thanks for reading.

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"This month, he was late in transferring money from his business account to our joint checking account and when he finally did, it was just enough to cover our mortgage and that's it! It was $3000 short of what he told me it would be." .... "I am upset with him not because we are not making as much money as we need to be, but because he is not communicating with me and keeping me in the dark. He is upset with me because I am "controlling" and don't trust him."
He did more than not communicate, he told you something that you counted on and then it didn't happen.
Welcome to the board, Momto5grls ~
I do think you've got a pretty serious problem on your hands, but I don't necessarily think it's unfixable.
In your money issue, I have to say, well yeah, you don't trust him with money, and with good reason. He's proven himself to be irresponsible, but I'm confused. Have you never had access to the business account or is this something new? Have you been trusting him for this year and just now are being upset about lack of access? I'm not clear on that. It seems odd that you would trust someone who "never pays anything on time" to your home equity and 401k without some assurance that the financial end would be run competently. Are you business partners, equals in this venture? What kind of agreement was between you regarding the business end of it in the beginning? I can understand being upset about what you found and waking him up to explain it, but in approaching him that way, you pretty much guaranteed there would be a fight, and no resolution. Right or wrong, lied or honest, he had to become defensive very fast. If this is the usual style of communication between you, it's not surprising that he wouldn't be too communicative.
I don't think you're over reacting to any of the situations you mentioned. I'd be upset about all of them too. What I don't know is how you typically go about tying to resolve these issues? What's your style of communication? How do you bring up and discuss issues and problems? That in itself can have a huge impact on the outcome and resolution (or lack of). I'm hoping I don't sound like I'm blaming you for the problems and/or lack of resolution. It takes two to deal with issues, he's got a part in this too. But you're the one who asked, so you're the one I'm asking more info from. Let me know and I'll have more thoughts and suggestions for you.
~ cl-2nd_life"Experience is what you get
when you don't get what you want."
~ Author unknown
"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
Jennie,
Thank you for taking the time to reply with so much thought. I'll try to answer your questions.
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I am upset that he may not be making enough, but not upset with him. I know that he is trying his best, although I am worried about our future, I am not resentful of him if the business doesn't work out. The worst case scenario is that he goes back into his former career, most likely with a significant pay cut, and I have to go back to work full-time.
But you are right, I don't trust him completely. He has lied to me many, many times and has made promises that he refused to acknowledge making.
What I resent more than anything is that the home equity loan is my money just as much as his, and yet he refused to give me access to his business account. I'm totally pissed about that and he knows it. I feel like I took a huge risk to let him make his dream of owning his own business come true, and what I ask for in return is access to the account, so that I can see for myself that it is working out. He says he doesn't want me questioning his every expense, and I have promised that I wouldn't do that. But we are at a standstill.
A little more info: two days after the money fight, he transferred the $3000 into our account. First, he said he didn't have enough and needed the money to pay employees, and then he suddenly had the money. So I am in the dark, and yes, I don't trust him. Would you?
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You are right that we are not a parenting team. We come from such different backgrounds and after all of these years, we've not made any progress. I will admit that some of this is my fault--I make all of the rules where the children are concerned. I try to discuss it with him and he just says whatever you want, that's fine with me. I trust your judgement. (He grew up in a very screwed up household where there were no rules or standards, but if you got on a parent's nerves, you would suddenly get hit or should I say beat) For example, bedtimes and snacks. When the kids were little, I had very specific rules about them and he agreed. But when one of my stepdaughters didn't like the rule, they would go to daddy and sometimes he would back me up, and other times he wouldn't. Very inconsistent.
Yesterday, he wanted the two older girls to do some yardwork (about two hours worth) with him. No notice, no discussion with me, and it was a school night. I didn't agree with two hours, especially as they are at the end of the school year and the 12 yr old has an Algebra test in two nights. But because I knew that he would say I never let him make any decisions as far as the girls are concerned, I let it happen. It wasn't easy for me, but I am trying.
When I accuse him of not being involved with the girls enough, he says it is because I have shut him out. I really believe this is a cop out on his part. He has shut himself out.
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That's hard for me to respond to. No one else in my life has ever called me controlling but him. Everyone else sees me as a leader and as capable, but not in a negative way. In social situations, he is definately in control. He usually picks the movie, the restaurant, whether we go, when we go. We are always late because he controls that and he knows it bothers me, but he is in control of that. I think he is running from me, but I think it is because he wants freedom and less responsibility. Well, too late for that. Time to grow up.
When he has called me controlling, he says he wants to do what he wants to do, doesn't want to discuss it or to have to answer to me about anything. He wishes that I would leave him the @#%$ alone--that's what he tells me. He doesn't want to compromise or communicate, just to do it his way and not to have to answer to anyone about it. I feel stuck in quicksand, just writing about it.
About the money, he cashed in his 401K without my agreeing to it. We discussed it and I said I didn't think that was a smart idea and he said that he was going to do it anyway. We used it to live off of while he was trying to get cleaning contracts to start his business. Just as the money was gone, he landed three big contracts. The home equity loan was different--I agreed to that after he received the three different contracts that bring in $17,000 a month--not profit, but he told me that we would make about 50% profit. The loan was to buy supplies and equipment and pay his employees for the first several weeks. So, I agreed to it. Now, he says he miscalculated and it is more like 30% profit, so I told him we could live on $5000 a month, but not less, or we will have to change a lot of things, like where we live, how much we spend, etc.
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You are right, I don't respect him and I am not sure if I love him anymore. Sad, but honest. I do try to respect his position in our family even if I don't really respect him as a person. But when we argue, I know my disrespect is evident. He probably does feel bad about me not trusting him, but what can I do about that? I do know that I want things to get better. I am willing to work on myself and my faults. Over the past several years, I have become a lot less controlling, less of a worrier, and less of a perfectionist. Those are my worst faults and I realize that is not easy to live with. But it seems as I have gotten better, he has cared less and less about our marriage.
You bring up some very insightful points and I appreciate it. I am willing to work, but I am not sure if he is. We have gone to a marriage counselor about ten years ago, but he doesn't want to anymore. This morning, I asked him if we could talk and he said he didn't have time. I asked when could we, and he said later, and wouldn't make a commitment as to when. He know once the girls get home, it will be busy and in the evening, he will probably be busy.
Thank you 2nd life,
I will try to answer your questions. He started his business by getting a license, opening an account in the business's name, getting advertising, etc. about 18 months ago. He had lost his job after working for the same company for 15 years. He received four months severance pay and during that time, he decided that this may be the best shot he would ever have to start his own business. So, he opened the account, started getting little jobs (one time only type jobs, not ongoing contracts until recently), and didn't give me access to the account. But he wasn't making much profit initially and I really didn't care about not having access. I had enough on my plate trying to make his 401K money last as long as possible.
We are not partners in this business. It is his business, something he reminds me of constantly. But, the home equity money is ours. In the past, we have always put our money together and I handle it, because he admits he is not good at it. And since it has always been in short supply (5 kids, after all) it is important that it be managed well.
See my last response re: the 401K, home equity loan. Our agreement was that he would "pay" our family a certain amount, on time monthly. We never did resolve the issue of me not even knowing his business account information. If he would just keep his end of the bargain and give me our family's $5000 per month, I would leave the rest up to him. That's assuming he pays his taxes, which I insisted we both meet with a CPA to discuss whether he is handling the business properly (and he agreed, but has yet to make an appointment)
When I approached him on Sat morning, I heard that little voice in my head saying not to start an argument in the morning--he is not a morning person at all. But my heart was pounding so fast, not understanding why we had almost no money in the bank and most of our bills were set to be paid that Monday and Tuesday. I did start the conversation out calmly. "Dh, I just went online and you only put $2000 in the bank? What happened to the other $3000?" He says "I don't have it" and rolls over. And it got worse from there.
As far as our styles of communication and how we typically communicate issues and problems:
I am very direct, like to discuss things immediately and thoroughly, and I know that I can beat an issue to death. I am very honest. I am very good at giving apologies, but I am told by him that I am not good at accepting apologies. I think that I accept sincere apologies well, but he always has qualifiers in his apologies. People at work tell me that I am a great communicator and my co-workers often like me to be their spokesperson. My dh seems to hate talking to me. I think he would rather have a root canal. He says that I would have made a great lawyer, because I remember everything and that I badger the witness. This can be true, I will admit.
Now when things are going well, he can talk my ear off about anything--the past, funny stories, people--and he is much more of a social talker than I am. But anything that is a potential conflict, he doesn't like to talk.
He just plain doesn't like to communicate. Favorite sayings: "I'm listening" said while he is watching t.v. and I am trying to speak to him. The most he will agree to do is put it on mute but refuses to look at me while I am speaking to him. Also, "whatever you think is fine with me" but he doesn't mean it, he just wants to end the conversation.
He never remembers anything he agrees to and I remember everything. When he changes his mind about something we agreed to, he doesn't think he owes me an explanation.
We are a communication disaster.
Basically
Are you me? Are you married to my H? Because I swear, you just perfectly described the dynamic between my H and me in your last 2 posts. Seriously. I'm sitting here, mouth agape, wondering how you could describe my personality and my H's so well. Though my H does more with our kids than yours. But the attitudes and everything, that is so COMPLETELY us! Including his insane desire to "control" when all "control" means is not telling me so he doesn't have to deal with things.
And I JUST, this past week or two, figured out where all these attitudes come from. Where it all spawns from. See, my H has an addictive personality. He has all the thought processes, beliefs, and such of an addict. You don't have to "medicate" or "act out" to be an addict. My H didn't for the first 8 years of our marriage. But the thought process are all still there and had been since before I met him. In fact, I think they've been there since he was a young teen.
I don't think your H thinks the same way you do. Your way is calm, rational, and normal. But because of your H's basic beliefs, what he really, truly, and completely believes about himself and others, he acts in a way that you can't understand and can't grasp. Because you believe totally different things.
Just an idea of what I'm saying...
The first core belief of an addict is that 1) I'm basically a bad, unworthy person. Addicts conclude from their family exp that they are not worthwhile people. Feelings of inadequacy and failure predominate. Outwardly they create a front of "normalcy" to hide their inadequacy. they may even appear grandiose and full of exaggerate self importance. As consequences to behaviors emerge, the front contrasts with actions that seem to be self-defeating. Others see decisions or behaviours as irrational, incomprehensible or self-destructive, but not "normal".
There are two others that are common in all addicts (no one would love me as I am and my needs are never going to be met if I have to depend on others). And I'm not saying your H is addicted to anything, just that given his background of an abusive home, he very probably has warped thought processes. That go back to how he felt about himself and how he thought his parents felt about him.
I don't know. Lately I'm seeing addictive thought processes everywhere. It's just, your description of the lying and hiding money issues, of agreeing and then him "changing his mind and doing what he wants and not telling you because you are just trying to control everything".... You have no idea how many times I've had that argument and heard those exact same comments. Or that I undermine him with the kids when HE'S the one who isn't consistant, or how we "just don't have the $$ so we can't pay the house pay't and I'm being rediculous to expect him to pay it." Or.......
I just so see my marriage here.
Jen
Jen,
Whoa, you hit a nail on the head. I don't have time to respond in depth because my toddler is up and needing me. But, my husband is a recovering alcoholic. He hasn't drank in 16 yrs except for one brief slip up that lasted a few months, but he still is 100% alcoholic acting in his personality.
I'm kind of thinking that I am about 80% healthy and 20% screwed up and he is about 20% healthy and 80% screwed up. Not sure that this is fixable.
Are you and your husband pretty stable? Happy? Is there hope?
I would say we are getting more stable. But that is just VERY recently and I'm only counting on it because he went on antidepressants. Which have helped a lot. And he has his 2nd appointment with an addiction counselor today. So we are just in the process of becoming more stable. I have great hope for us because he WANTS to be more stable. He WANTS to be "normal" or at least healthy (I'm beginning to believe that there isn't a "normal" or that "normal" isn't necessarily healthy, lol). He is actively seeking help. He even decided last night that he needs a 12 step program too. So he's taking the steps to change his thought processes. Does your H want to do that or is he okay as he is? Is it possible that he has shifted his addiction from alcohol to something else? Losing a job and starting a new business were my H's triggers last year. The stress went through the roof and he stopped fighting the thoughts and started acting out. And then our relationship really tanked. It wasn't until he stopped acting out that it started to improve and that was 8 months ago. Could this be part of the reason why he doesn't want you to see the business account? My H didn't like me checking into our finances (one, because it just confirmed what he already thought about himself (that he wasn't good enough to do it) and 2 because there were things in there I could find.)
YOU need to find an addiction counselor for you so you can STOP fueling the cycle he's in. I know I was fueling it. I had no clue I was. I didn't even know he was an addict! But there are things I would do, normal things, that would fuel his addictive cycle. And counseling will help you to deal. And when you think, but I don't need an addiction counselor.... My H's 1st counselor said that his addiction "wasn't that big of a deal, he just needed an area to be irresponsible in." Normal counselors don't get it. I'm now totally converted to that belief.
Anyway, your problem is that you are dealing with an addict like he was a healthy person. And it won't get you anywhere.
Jen
Based on what you've said, I'd say you have a lot bigger issue than can be resolved by the two of you alone. He's grown up in dysfunction and therefore doesn't have the base of a healthy background to draw from, he's a recovering addict that may not (?) be actively doing anything to address his addictive behavior (whether he's drinking or not), he's lied to you many times and seems to be hiding something financially now. He's not willing to let you in on the financial side, which has to make you feel incredibly vulnerable and doesn't appear willing to even consider anything else. How can you protect yourself financially in this situation? And with the history you've indicated, it seems that you should be protecting yourself. The two of you have a lot of family/relationship issues between you and each of those needs to be addressed and worked on. Put it all together and you have a mountain of trouble. But, the question is, what is he willing to do about it? He seems defensive and blaming (could be addiction based, could be family of origin based, could be the defensive place he's gotten to from the battling over these issues you've had, or it could be any combination of them. Where do you start? Will he go to AA for a check in? Is he willing to see a couples counselor with you (preferably one who has some background in addictions as well)? There are changes you can make in your relationship through counseling without him, but there's a lot to be done before this situation is acceptable. You say you're not sure that you love him any more, and I can't say that's a surprise. So another question has to be, is this a situation you want to put that kind of hard work into? And I have to be really honest myself and say, especially if he's not deeply willing, there may be very little change that's possible no matter how hard you work at it; he carries a lot into this that came long before you, he'll have to want to dig to the bottom of his issues to make them better. And there's your quality of life, health and happiness that are to be considered largely in this as well (as well as your children who will be affected by an unhappy, dysfunctional relationship).
I am going to post some links to articles on constructive arguing so you can refresh on positively approaching issues:
Ten Rules For Fair Fighting
Verbal Fencing With Someone You Love
Dos and Don'ts For Fair Fighting
Conflicts - Points to Remember
My personal approach would be to approach him at a time when there was not a problem between us and speak to him in a serious and concerned manner. I'd tell him I was deeply concerned about our relationship and that I was deeply unhappy in it. I'd let him know that for me, real steps needed to be taken to make real changes in order for the marriage to survive (if that's true -- never make threats you aren't ready to carry out), and I'd ask him what he thought. I would do my best not to be triggered to anger, I'd work to stay focused on the subject (this is not the time to point fingers about who did what). This, to me would be the ground floor of making my deep concerns clear and in learning his feelings on the subject. I would be very open to giving him a day to think about things before coming back together to discuss it further. This would be a "this is where we are, where do we go from here" kind of discussion. If he does what's typical and throw accusations out I'd suck it in (hopefully) and say something like, "I'm not going there, so I'll end the discussion. I hope you'll consider what I've said and will come back to me ready to discuss it by tomorrow.", and I'd leave it at that.
~ cl-2nd_life"Experience is what you get
when you don't get what you want."
~ Author unknown
"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
Jen, I would say considering that he's just come clean and has begun treatment, you're in the baby stages of taking the steps to become stable, but you're a long way from being in a place that's stable yet. Not a criticism, but stability will come when he's in control of his addiction, has understanding of what goes into it, his triggers, is able to avoid triggers and has had a good long period of time under his belt actually being clean and having successfully managed urges. Hopeful and positive, yes, but stable's a ways away.
~ cl-2nd_life"Experience is what you get
when you don't get what you want."
~ Author unknown
"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
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