Anyone else the divorcer....
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| Fri, 03-17-2006 - 10:21am |
not the divorced? I think I've stayed married so long because of what ppl would say, since I'm the one that would be requesting the divorce. I feel like I'll be shunned or told that I'm giving up. That all they sympathy and empathy would go to him because he doesn't want to get divorced.
The thing is....I don't have any of the "typical" solid reasons that ppl think of when you say divorce. He didn't cheat on me, doesn't abuse me, works hard, helps around the house, great dad...just an all around normal, decent guy. There's just no love there. No love.....and no sex. For 8 years. We'll be married 9 in a couple of weeks. I know.....I'll give you some time to pick your jaws up off the floor. LOL Crazy. We never had counseling.....because we're stupid and we really only talked about the problem 2 times, like 6 years ago. After that....I just let it go and proceeded to convince myself that I could live this way forever because he's good in every other aspect. I mean, come on.....the way I described him....sounds like a dream man, right? So....I lived with it. I still don't know what the problem was. I'm an attractive woman. I'm in even better shape and more attractive at 31 then I was when he met me at 18. That's because I kept thinking maybe it was me....he wasn't attracted to me. So I made sure to stay in shape. During my pregnancy (through IVF because remember, we didn't have sex! yes..I thought maybe if we had kids, which we always wanted, that would help. LOL Kids....helping with a sex-life? Man...I'm dumb sometimes.LOL Not that I regret it, I love my babies with all my soul.) I only gained 36 lbs. and that's with twins! And I lost those pounds in 5 weeks after the birth. So I tried, I really tried. In the beginning I always tried to initiate sex....but there's only so many times you can get rejected before you just stop trying. I mean....I have pride too! He told me he wasn't gay....he didn't have ED because sometimes when we were sleeping, I could feel him get erect in his sleep and sometimes when he thought I was sleeping I could hear the faint sound of a porno and him masturbating (can you say kick in the gut?!) I never confronted him about that....I think it was because I was afraid of the answer at the time. I know he wasn't cheating on me because I knew about his whereabouts at all times. Work.....home. He doesn't even have any friends that he hangs out with, so he doesn't go out. I checked cell phone bills...all of that....there was a time I WISHED he was cheating on me just so that I could have an answer as to WHY?! Anyway...time went by with no sex and well.....with no sex, there's really no marriage. We just became like friends. Then with more time...probably because of resentment, it became more like roommates. Now, I'm thinking about divorce because it's becoming more like annoying roommate that you can't stand and daydream about cleaning the toilet with their toothbrush!
I would love an amicable divorce, I don't hate him (though I will if this goes on too much longer) and I want him in our babys' lives, and I don't want to disrespect him by telling anybody the reason why we didn't work out. But I don't want to come out the bad guy if he tells ppl he doesn't want to get divorced and it's all me doing it. Because then I will have to tell them why......and that's pretty embarrassing, no? Especially for a guy....am I wrong? I don't want to hurt him, I don't. I care about him. I don't blame him for all of it because I know I should have been stronger and done something about it back then. And I'm angry at myself about that. I'm usually a very strong, independent person. A leader, not a follower and I'm angry with myself for not having been stronger with this. I let fear make my decision.
I come from a very old school, European family....divorce is bad. A girl getting divorced.....not even heard of! So I know that if my mother gets ahold of that it's my idea.....she will flip! And I know some of you are going to say that I shouldn't care, I'm an adult and all that......but anyone who has an old-school, controlling, Spaniard mother, knows what I'm talking about. To her, I'm 10 not 31 and she is free to try to run my life the way she thinks I should! LOL That's for a different support board though!
It comes down to....I kinda feel guilty that I'm finally happy because I'm getting divorced. I'm sad for my children though I know they'll be ok because of the enormous love both their parents and grandparents and uncles and aunts give them, it still breaks my heart that they won't be raised in a "typical" family setting. But I know that I would not want this life for my kids in their marriage, that's how I know I shouldn't be living it either. I wasted my 20's in a loveless marriage. I don't want to wake up at 40 and say I wasted my 30's as well. So I guess I'm just looking for ppl to tell me that it's ok to want to be happy eventhough it will hurt other ppl (H, kids, etc..)
Is it?
Wow....sorry so long. This is my first time writing about it.

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OH. MY. GOD.
I can't BELIVE this - i thought that i was the only one in the world who stuck out a sexless/loveless marriage for so many years, hoping, thinking, that things would change, get better.
WOW....
The difference between our marriages is that i did not love my husband, i tried to, i tried to convince myself that i did - but i really didn't. i'll tell you - i lived with the guilty feelings for so long. I didn't get divorced because I felt guilty.... but it finally occurred to me that my then-husband was NOT a good guy, NOT a nice guy (i mean, i realized that he was abusive and controlling but i kept trying to convince myself that he was a good guy...). but then i figured out something - he LIED to me. he married me under total false pretences!! he KNEW that he had this problem, he had the SAME PROBLEM in his first marriage and yet he married me anyway and lied aboiut it.
and that's when i realized that he was a terrible terrible person.
it was difficult to get divorced - to make that decision. it was my second marriage, my ds (from my first marriage) seemed to be attached to him (although he was miserable). what helped me get past it was therapy - but in order for therapy to really work - you need to be honest with yourself, and take responsibility for your life.
my family is not european - but we are jewish - so talk about guilty inducing, 'what will the neighbors think' genes.... i also come from an orthodox background so its even MORE difficult in the orthodox society - its 'not done'.
remember - its your life and you only get one. our mothers and grandmothers lived with abuse and sadness - and nobody says that we have to do the same.
Thanks sk. But....I think our situations are even more alike than you think. I didn't love him either. I married him because he was "nice guy". I had already had my "first true love" relationship which was pretty volatile and I went for a guy who was the complete opposite. And H was that guy...the first one I dated. The rebound guy. I married the rebound guy. He was good, loyal, hardworking, would never cheat on me, didn't try to control me (back then) and my mother liked him. End of story. I wanted out of the house, he was the only way I would get to do that....because girls don't move out on their own and they don't live in sin! gasp! LOL
So....I married him. I cared about him but I wasn't in love with him though at the time I would have said I was, I know now I wasn't. And I think that makes me feel even more guilty because I made the mistake. I married him. It's not his fault. He was in love with me, so he says. Who knows what they want at 21?! What's best for them?! It was a mistake and now I feel guilty that I'm going to ruin this guys life because of a mistake I made. Guilt......sucks.
yeah i know exactly what you mean, nice girls don't do this or that...
you know - I lived my life doing what 'society' expect of me, what "good girls" do. i never questioned anything. but at some point i realized a few things - this guy, supposedly an honest, "relgious" man - he is a liar!! good religious people don't lie!! but he does. he lied to me - he has this problem, he has always had it, but he lies about it. so that was when i snapped. it took me YEARS to realize this. i even went to counseling with these good jewish religious women - these "marital counselors" - all the 'support' i got from them was that i have to try harder. that i have to be a 'good jewish wife'. talk about guilt....
it took me ONE SESSION with a therapist to admit that i didn't love him, and that *this* is not what i want out of life. i don't think i could've gotten thru this without going to therapy.
Trust me, you are not the only woman to stay married too long and for the wrong reasons. Guilt, shame, and fear
Actually, isn't lack of sex considered grounds for divorce? He has rejected you, not the other way around.
I have a friend who suffers terribly from the shame/failure of her divorce. And I think it is all in her head. If a couple is amicable about divorcing it sends a message to their kids and their community that there is no drama to be found here, move along please. A lot of how it is perceived is in how you are seen to be managing it.
All my friends and neighbors have been 100% supportive of me. They know my husband travels and works A LOT, and assume it is related to that. They don't ask for details about WHY we are divorcing.
If fifty percent of marriages end in divorce, open your front door and look up and down your street. Assume that half of those houses contain couples that are getting divorced, have been divorced in the past, or might be on their second or third marriage. Who is really going to judge you? Frankly, I think that people tend to be grateful that it isn't them. I told my friends I was supporting their marriages by taking one for the team. I hope they all went home and thanked their lucky stars they got a better husband than I did.
Which brings me to your mom. And I just can't even go there. My parents have been great. It's your life, not hers!
When you are at the end of your life, and you look back for the final evaluation, all 'those people' who are going to judge you for divorcing are not going to be there. So why care what they think?
Nicknat,
Wow! We have very close to the same story! I had no business marrying him in the first place - he was a rebound for a guy in college that really broke my heart. So I went to the extreme opposite and look where it got me! Our "sex problem" was opposite yours, though. He bugged me ALL THE TIME! He was always extremely needy and clung to me - I was basically his mother, constantly taking care of everything! Our divorce was a shock to most everyone - I worked hard at trying to convince myself that I loved him and was happy for years. And here's my big kicker - he has brain cancer. We have spent the past three years fighting and last year finally found an FDA trial that seems to be working. And, no, the divorce has nothing to do with the cancer. Anyway, I've been deemed the "bad guy" in a big way! However, I know in my heart what's true and have found who my real friends are - the ones that listen and don't judge. But yes, I've been shunned by people I thought were friends and neighbors. I say fine....let them have their own opinions, I certainly can't change them, and do I really want to take the time and spend the energy on people with such small minds? No. Luckily, I have the tremendous support of my family behind me. And, the people that really matter have seen his true colors since he moved out and fully understand my reasons for divorce.
The divorce is relatively amicable - no lawyers, 50/50 split on everything, including child custody. The stuff that's not amicable is his rage and anger (one of the many reasons I'm divorcing him). I have almost 100 nasty, threatening emails (since Sept) stored, a journal in which I've documented stupid stuff he's done, and I watched him key my car a couple weeks ago.
Hang in there! To thine own self be true!!
I'll bet you feel better after writing all of that.
Karen ~ wildlucky4me ~
Hi Nick,
I'm going to play devil's advocate here. I can understand your frustration. What woman doesn't want to be desired sexually, especially by her own spouse? I would find it very difficult to "live with it" as you have for so long. I commend your valiant attempt to accommodate your husband. It is very difficult to find a good sexual balance in any marriage let alone one of two extremes.
Now, my two cents for your thoughts: First, I wonder if there is a physical reason your husband appears to dislike sex? (Erections at night happen for a number of reasons one of which is he simply needs to empty his bladder.) However, there may be another physical reason for his disinterest. My advice here: He should see a urologist. There may be a very good physical explanation for his disinterest; his "night dreams" aside.
Second thought: I wonder if there is a psychological reason for his disinterest in sex? Was he sexually abused in childhood...by a woman? What is his family history? Did he grow up in a household where sex was depicted as "dirty" or "wrong?" Or simply a "nasty secret" his parents figured he'd learn on his wedding night? Is he also from a "Old European Background" where he may have inherited some very Victorian notions about the human body and sexuality?) You may be surprised what childhood conditioning displays itself in adulthood. A lot of it we don't even remember until we get therapy.
Third thought: Does he "know" you really didn't marry him for love? It would take a herculean effort to "hide" your true feelings after a few months of marriage. Is he picking up on your unhappiness with your decision? My advice: get thee to a marriage counselor to initiate honest "cards on the table" discussion. You both contribute to this state of being; find out how you are contributing to it and find out how he perceives your marriage. A third party is essential. Counseling isn't a "do-it-yourself" project.
And second last, I truly believe you are as happy as you make up your mind to be. Your husband and children are important to your daily living. Yet, they can't be held 100% responsible for your happiness. The old adage is true: You're as happy as you make up your mind to be. Your thoughts determine your attitude. So change your thoughts. Instead of focusing on what's missing focus on what's "right" about your marriage. You have many blessings to count. Count them. Daily.
Finally, I also believe that you can "decide" to love someone. I know this sounds hokey, but the best advice I've ever heard from professionals is this: love your spouse. Say I love you. Give him your affirmatiom, attention, and tell him you love him. That's not asking for sex. It's living the reality you want to have.
None of this is "quick fix" but neither is divorce. I, personally, would advise you to put all your time and energy into making your marriage better, rather than looking for the OK to get divorced. It's not a magic pill. It's bitter and difficult and heartbreaking. You will never regret making the effort to do the hard work of making your marriage better. Your kids are a very good reason to give it your all. Yes, they deserve "a life" but they can have that and so can you inside your marriage.
The grass isn't always greener on the other side of the fence. Sure you can leap but you might wind up feet first in a cow pie. ;-)
Best wishes,
Wisdomtooth
Thanks to everyone for taking time for me.
Wisdom,
He did go to a urologist after the first year of us not having sex, at my request. We were married young and dumb. Too embarrassed to really talk about the situation, so I just asked him to go see a doctor. Told him he might be sick! I tried to pawn it off on that....and he tried to use it as an excuse as well. He went. He was fine.
I treated him like gold and have been a great wife. I never treated him any different, despite this. If anything, I tried harder because I wanted to make sure it wasn't something I was doing or not doing. He could never have any complaints about me.
It's not psychological. He's fine, that I know of. And you know what.....if he's not, then that would just make me pissed that he didn't seek help. 8 years I stuck by him this way. Everyday for 8 years I told him I loved him, stuck by him, gave him attention and love. For 8 years I put all my time and energy into my marriage. All the while dying inside. And that's where I went wrong. That was the wrong thing to do. Had I spoken up back then neither of us would have wasted most of our adult life.
I appreciate you taking the time to write out your long post to me, wisdom but if you had read my original post correctly you would see that I wasn't asking for the "ok to get divorced", I was asking for reassurance that it's ok to put myself first for once. I tried my best and stuck it out longer than I should have. I won't do it anymore. And I don't think that 8 yrs would be considered a "quick fix" to anyone. I may sound resolved in my decision but that's because I've been living it for a long time, it's not that I haven't thought it through. Anyone who's ever even come close to thinking about divorce, who is not a selfish prick, would tell you that it's not something they WANT to do. It's not a first, second, or even fifth choice. It's the LAST choice.
The grass may not always be greener.....but any grass is better than the weeds growing on my side.
Hey there.... how ya doin?..... how's the research and book coming?????
Karen ~ wildlucky4me ~
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