Can he be for real!

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-11-2004
Can he be for real!
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Wed, 05-18-2005 - 10:47am

Well I got myself into trouble again this morning. My ex was supposed to take the baby this morning and I just got so pissed off hearing that he wanted to spend the day with my son at the "ow" house and his twins. Why does he want to have him around this tramp one day then his 20yr old the next. Dealing with him spending the day with my son and the "new gf" is one thing but with the woman he cheated on me with when we were together is too much to bear. Am I wrong. Please help me.

So ofcourse I got emotional, and upset. Opening "pandora's box". Asking questions I had no business asking. Well he says that he is serious with this gf and faithful to her. I asked him why couldnt he be this "changed man" for me? What was wrong with me? He said nothing was wrong with me and she is worthy of being faithful to. He guesses he learned from his experience with me and the "ow". I just wanted to die. I know I got myself into this one big time. Why the hell do I still even care. Can he possible really have changed? If so why change for her and not me. I m the one who put in all the time and effort. He just throws away 5 1/2 years. How dare he just dismiss us. I told him she's only been in your life for a few months I was there for years and have still been there for you and he said she will be in his life for years. Oh god. I just hung up the phone. How do I recover from this now.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 02-19-2004
Wed, 05-18-2005 - 10:59am

There is a chance he thinks he's changed but he hasn't. It doesn't sound to me like he's experienced a ton of personal growth, and only time will tell if he's serious.

There is nothing wrong with you. This isn't about you it's about him and his shortcomings and his mistakes and his choices. You can't change what he's going to do. His choices are having an overwhelming affect on how you feel but you can stop that, eventually, with some work. You need to stop it for your own sanity.

The situation with the ow is hard. Of course it hurts. I am not sure you will ever be 'okay' with it but you will have to accept it. You can't change that about him either, you can't erase her from his life or forget about her. You can accept that as long as your child is not in harms way, other people being in his life is a postive thing. Those twins are his siblngs and it's good that he can see them and spend time with them. How old is your son? How old are the twins? It seems like they are going to grow up together and that ow is going to always be in the picture somehow.

I know it's hard and there is no easy fix and I'm sorry you have to go through all this. (((HUGS))))

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iVillage Member
Registered: 06-11-2004
Wed, 05-18-2005 - 12:22pm

I thank you for listening to all my drama in my life. The twins are about 2 months old.
My son is 2 1/2.

I think Im even jealous that he wants to take my son there but has never asked to bring the twins to my house to visit with our son. I know I shouldnt even care, dont even really think I want to or can handle seeing them. But Im still a bit jealous. It drives me crazy. Why am I jealous of this? I cant figure out why what he does still has so much affect on me. My friend thinks it's because I still see him, not allowing myself proper time of "no contact". My friend was saying that this "thing" between us this "confrontational stuff" is still going on b/c we are both still getting something out of it. Otherwise we wouldnt keep doing it. I think she may be right. But when it's done im a emotional wreck and Im sure he's just fine. It's like having a "negative relationship" as opposed to NO RELATIONSHIP AT ALL. I guess Im still afraid that I'll be "ALONE". All the emotions are just still so fresh, he's still so angry at me I guess we do have to just give ourselves time apart to heal. It's just so hard when I still want the old him back and think if I just held on a little longer he would see all the beauty of "us" I saw. I guess that's just my fairytale. Where do you begin to move on from this, how do I just accept it's OVER and HE'S NEVER COMING BACK.

If there was nothing wrong with ME why doesnt HE want me. I am worthy arent I.

He says he goes to her house b/c she doesnt demand anything of him, he doesnt have to make any effort to do anything when there, Im at work during the day,(she's still on maternity leave). In my mind I know I dont want to be in that kind of situation where he comes only if convenient for him, be used until main "gf" gets off from work. Since he also said that's why he goes there also. And I guess in all of this he gets spend time with his twins too. I want to be the one and only! We got into it the other day I asked him so the only way you'll come to my house is if Im willing to share? I said I dont want to share, he said so then leave him alone!

But now this morning he's telling me he's changed and faithful. I wanted to just scream and kill him. I deserved him to be faithful to me! Not her. What did she do to get this new man he says he is. I cooked, cleaned, washed his clothes, gave him his 1st born son, gave him my love, let him in my heart, hopes and dreams and he just played with my feelings, stepped on hopes and walked out on "us". Wasnt he supposed to pick up ball when it dropped. I always carried us through fought for us when in trouble. Why didnt he fight for us when it was his cheating that destroyed us to begin with, his cheating and giving up was what turned me into "this person" he says is too emotional to be around. He cant handle it. He has too many other things going on. He says the last year between us was hell, yes it was I wonder why. And now he's learned from his mistakes with me! He's wants to give her what he couldnt give me!

HOW!

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-06-2005
Wed, 05-18-2005 - 12:43pm

You have got to do what is best for your son. Stop worrying about OW. YOUR feelings about OW have nothing to do with what is best for your children... honestly, you have no business even knowing what happens when he takes your son. He is a parent too and even though we don't agree with their decisions sometimes it is out of our control.... scary, yes. But there is NOTHING us or the courts or anyone else can do to keep our kids away from OW. It would have been best for your son to spend time with daddy. Forget about all the other BS.


I know it's hard... believe me. But we HAVE to put our own feelings aside for the sake of our children. It is better for them to spend time with STBX than it is to see Mommy stressed out about OW... and even if you don't show it he knows.... trust me.


Hugs to you.


Angelena

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-14-2004
Wed, 05-18-2005 - 12:56pm

luvred-

I can understand your feelings about OW and your son being around her. I think most people wish that OW/OM could be dropped onto another planet so we never have to think about or deal with them again. You may never like her or respect her, but she is the mother of your son's half-siblings. If you work on it, gradually the thought of her won't be as upsetting to you and you may reach a point where you can tolerate the thought of her. And if you think about it, she has had a little universal justice dealt to her - she messed in your relationship, and now she finds herself the single mother of twins while the guy she thought she had taken from you has moved on to someone new.

As for your feelings about your ex changing - whether he changes or doesn't change is not about who he is with, it is about him. Just like him cheating on you was never about you, but about his own insecurities and issues. It's easy to understand feeling like something must be wrong with you, and I'm sure at the time you discovered his cheating he tried to spread the blame as much as he could. Has he really changed? It's possible, but I really doubt it. If he isn't lying about being faithful to the new girl, it only means he's been faithful for a few months. Once the honeymoon phase of the relationship wears off, it's quite likely he'll go back to his old ways.

You can't change him or the situation with the OW and her twins and the new girlfriend. But you can take control over how you handle the situation. You can make communications between you and he less confrontational and therefore less stressful for yourself. You may think you want answers from him, but every time you try to get them, don't you end up feeling worse? Don't you feel better when you have no contact except for what is required for visitation, etc.?

And one more thought - your ex must have a swelled head thinking that not one, not two, but three women want him. Do you want to continue to feed his ego?

-sang

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-19-2004
Wed, 05-18-2005 - 1:17pm

>>>But Im still a bit jealous. It drives me crazy. Why am I jealous of this? I cant figure out why what he does still has so much affect on me.<<<

Don't ask yourself why you are jealous. Ask yourself what you are going to do about it. The reason you feel that way is obvious, and the pain you are in is to be expected. But the solution is not to keep wishing he were back and wanting him to leave the 20 year old or ignore the twins mother. The solution is to face your feelings and realize you are bigger than just one emotion, and you can take control of this and put yourself on a road to valuing your life and all that you have, and not letting his choices take away anything from you.

>>>My friend thinks it's because I still see him, not allowing myself proper time of "no contact".<<<

I don't think 'no contact' can work when you have children. That works well when you can really have no contact, but in your case you need a more complex approach.

>>>My friend was saying that this "thing" between us this "confrontational stuff" is still going on b/c we are both still getting something out of it. Otherwise we wouldnt keep doing it. I think she may be right.<<<

My therapist would agree. He says we all have scripts in relationships. Those scripts are what we go back when we interact with the other person, and they include all the history with that person so when we see them or talk to them we aren't starting from scratch each time, we know what to expect, we know what their tone means, we know what our role is.

One of my scripts with my ex-h was that he would screw up and I would take charge and fix it, and another one was that I would take responsibility and he would let me, then when things didn't turn out a way he liked he would blame me because afterall, I was the one that made all the decisions. Three years after we bought our house, he tells me he never wanted it and he only agreed to buy it because I wanted to, and that I coerced him into it. That idea was ludicrous. I called him up one day and said I think we can afford a house, should we try to get preapproved? He said yes. We got preapproved and I said, should we go forward with this? He said yes. We looked at houses and finally found one we both liked. We went back to it a second time and I said should we bid? He said yes. I can look at things pretty objectively I think, and I don't see any coercion. But in his mind he say that, because in his mind he was powerless to say no to what I wanted because he could not accept responsibility for any decision, that was my job. He also wanted to have the right to blame me.

After the separation, he 'needed' a new laptop. He asked me to finance it for him. I didn't think that was appropriate, so instead I gave him a long list of ideas of how to get one on his own. He could ask his mother, buy used, save up, or do without (imagine those four choices along with very detailed steps on how and way to evaluate each option, lol). His response was his mother said no, he didn't want used, he didn't want to wait and save up and he couldn't do without. My therapist said I was playing the same old script, and I was still trying to fix it for him. The therapist asked me if my 'list' really helped him find a solution, and I admitted that no, he had already thought of all those other options and dismissed them.

Several months later he failed to pay a traffic ticket, let his car insurance lapse, got pulled over for speeding, discovered his license was suspended for failing to pay the ticket and got his car confiscated. He called me up because this affected his ability to pick up dd the next night. I said that was fine, I would get her that night and I didn't offer any suggestions for fixing his problem. I just told him to let me know if it wasn't resolved for that Friday, and we'd make alternate plans for dd for the weekend. I changed the script. He responded by explaining in detail what he was going to do to get his license and his car back and how he was getting to work in the meantime. I said it sounded like he had it all under control. THEN he said, well it would be fixed a lot faster if I put his car back on my insurance LOL! UM NO! It took me forever to get him off my insurance in the first place! So I said "I don't think that is a very good idea" and he agreed, it wasn't. That was it. Not long after that his car died and he had to get a new one (no money, probably borrowed from his mom), he had a huge tax bill to pay this year (I had warned him about this and to change his withholdings), and his muffler just needed to be replaced (conveniently fixed this past weekend when his mom was in town). He didn't ask me for help one time. He didn't ask because I changed the script. It seems easy in hindsight, but it would have taken me a long time to figure that out had I not been in therapy.

>>>If there was nothing wrong with ME why doesnt HE want me. I am worthy arent I.<<<

You are worthy of so much more than what he's offered. It doesn't matter what he's capable of or what he's promising the 20 year old. He is not treating you well and he never will. You can find someone who will be better than that to you, do you believe you are worthy of that? I have really struggled with valuing myself and believing my needs are important. I have always been the one who fixed things and took care of others, I haven't done a really good job of taking care of myself until recently. I was in a relationship with the perfect guy (perfect for me) the past year and 1/2. He's got a lot going on with his son and custody and I've stood by him through some tough times. He admitted last week that he can't see a future with me, his life is a mess and he can't think about that, and eventually he will probably move away to be closer to his son. Breaking up with him has been one of the hardest things I've done, and the only reason I did it was because I know I want marriage again, I know I want more children, and I know he can't give me those things. He and I are perfect together, and all I really want is to be with him right now. I could be with him if I let myself, but I'd have to give up that hope of marriage and more children, and I can't do that. I can't give up a piece of myself in order be with him and not be alone. I know I will find someone that will give me what I need and it will feel so much better to give my love to someone who can return it.

I feel you are going through the hardest part of the process right now. You are trying to come to terms with your worst case scenario. I believe you can come through this stronger and a better person, but I know it's hard and nothing is going to make it easier.




Edited 5/18/2005 1:23 pm ET ET by firstamendment

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iVillage Member
Registered: 06-11-2004
Wed, 05-18-2005 - 1:27pm

Angelena,
Im trying, I am. It just hurts so much. I never told him he couldnt take him today. I guess it was my fault for asking I know. But he's only two and Im still so afraid that he just might use him in some way to hurt me like take him and keep him. He still has so much anger for me like he hates me. I didnt make him lose his job or his home with us. I didnt cheat, he did all those things and he blames me for where he is in his life now. If I go to court Im also afraid that he will see that as some sort of hostile act on my part and say he wants nothing to do with him, no court should tell him how often to see his own child. He's said that before when there was mention of him getting visitation through court. So I dont know which way to turn.

I know I'm a mess and have to separate myself from him. He was such a big part of my life. I'm just trying to learn how to move on from that. How did you do it.

I've made progress but then once I see him it all goes to hell. So Im trying to be strong and have "nc". It's been 1yr, 3months. He was in my life for 5 1/2 years. I now that may be nothing compared to some relationships that were double that time. All my hopes and dreams have just been shattered and he acts like he doesnt even care. Why doesnt he care. I told him before it got serious what i wanted. It just hurts so bad that he acts like the relationship was nothing major. And this new 20yr old is everything, like he wants to give her all my hopes and dreams. I deserved them from him. I dont know what to do.

Angelena how do I just stop. He just walked away from me like there's something wrong with me.

I am trying to date, even have one set up this saturday. Im trying to move on. I just want this pain to end

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-14-2004
Wed, 05-18-2005 - 1:29pm

<>

first-
I'm really impressed to hear this. I know so many women in similar situations who accept excuses and try to wait it out hoping the guy will change and give them what they really want. While it's easy to be objective about someone else's life, it's difficult to put aside your feelings and take an objective look at your own life and say "yes, I care deeply for him/love him, but is he really the guy for me?". It takes a lot of strength of character to refuse to compromise and accept less than what you know you need.
-sang

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-26-2004
Wed, 05-18-2005 - 1:32pm

I have to agree with sang, If you continue to tell him how you feel, that will be feeding his ego.

It is so hard to let go of the things we wnat to change but can't. I have been struggling with this for a few weeks now. Okay, I have been struggling with it since we separated, but it has been really difficult the last few weeks. I was pretty sure stbx was going to see OW in our old town. I had no proof, but I let my imaginatio work me into a frenzy. I said and did things that I wish I hadn't and now I can't take them back. I had to realize that I cannot change my stbx or the situation. I can only be responsible for how I react. So far my reactions have not been good. I have been so much more relaxed since I realized I needed to deal with the situation differently becasue I could change him. I don't engage in chit chat when we exchange daughter. I do share information about our daughter and anything that might be necessary. I try to steer clear of anything that might set me off. I don't really know what will set him off so I keep the focus on myself. This has only been working for a little less than a week so I am not an expert, but I feel better and that is half the battle.

I know it is hard. I think about the OW and how she must have something I don't have. I work myself into a panic over the littlest of things. Sometimes it just happens. If I can suggest only one thing it would be to not let your ex in on your feelings. You are giving him power over you even if that is not what you are meaning to do. Also, set up a visitation schedule right now. If I remember correctly, it is sort of up in the air as to when your ex has visits. Make a plan and stick to it and then you don't have to have any extra phone calls from him. If he doesn't show up for the visit, don't call to see where he is, just let it pass. He should have his own calendar and he can refer to it if he needs to. If he misses the visit he doesn't get to change dates; he will have to wait for the next one. This will help you to limit contact and hopefully get rid of some of the conflict. I find the less I talk to stbx the better. I feel better and we don't tend to get in each other's faces.

I hope this helps a bit. Like I said, I am no expert but so far so good.
neverdull

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-06-2005
Wed, 05-18-2005 - 1:51pm

I swear you and I are like twins in this whole thing...lol.


I am the same way. I go with the no contact thing for months and then one day he will do something nice or I will see him and boom.... there I am asking why.


He "hates" you because he feels guilty. It's the only way he knows how to show it. Every man does it that leaves their family.... My ex is the same way. I guess I just learned to accept it as a "reason" that he did what he did in his mind. He doesn't know why he did what he did, so he blames me. It's easy, safe and a "good" reason to him. So when that makes sense he gets hit with the responsibility thing, like paying child support or mandatory visitation with the kids..... then I become the bad guy again, because someone is holding his hand like a little baby for the decisions HE made. He doesn't want to admit wrong so we are the next best thing! And you know what? Any other OW that he leaves will also get the brunt of his guilt. It's not just you... I promise.


You just have to become "cold" towards him and stop caring. I KNOW it's hard. It's the only way. He isn't the same person you fell in love with. Think of him as a stranger.... forget about the why's.


My "why" episodes happen less and less these days. I think I am busy and X stays out of my life except every 2 weeks. I also had months where he disappeared, giving me reason to hate him ( although I don't hate him literally ) The less I know about his life, the better. When I used to hear of OW's bulls!t towards him and the kids I would ask why, when I heard he couldn't pay his bills I would ask why etc... the less I know the better. Keep your conversations to Hi, bye and DS needs X,Y,Z. Don't ask how he is.... don't let him ask you. Just keep it like a business/stranger relationship. Thats how I did it.


Hugs to you, I know you are trying but the more you fall the deeper you will go. Stop it now before time just flies by...... I promise, it WILL get better.


Angelena


iVillage Member
Registered: 02-19-2004
Wed, 05-18-2005 - 1:53pm

I did give him a year and 1/2, but I knew the clock would run out at some point. Through the whole process I used my therapist as a way to judge whether I was staying in it for the right reasons. Up until 2 weeks ago I was. I love him, he was going through a tough time, we are great together and I had hope for the future. 2 weeks ago he took away that hope (even though he apparently still thought we could see each other after that, I don't know what he was thinking). It is so hard. I am on the verge of tears several times a day. I have had many all out bawling fests. I have been eating lots of potato chips and chocolate cookies. I want to call him desperately but every time I think of it, I remember I've said all I can say to him. He knows what I want and need and he can't give it to me. I don't fault him. He is a great person, but he's not the person for me at this time. It sucks. I hate it.

I never would have been able to walk away and I could not fake being this strong if I had not experienced so much personal growth since the end of my marriage, and if I didn't have the benefit of a really wonderful therapist.

Thank you for your words. It means a lot to me.

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