To firstamendment......

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-20-2005
To firstamendment......
3
Thu, 04-07-2005 - 12:50pm
I just wanted to add something to the reply that I posted to you on your last reply. I have gone to marriage counseling before (mostly by myself) and have read book after book to help me get some clarity on the situation with my husband. I guess that's why it bothered me that you wrote what you did, because I happen to be a very effective communicator and listener. (Ask my friends who always come to me for advice.) I have tried for years to solve our problems, but he has not. He is coming from a different place, has a different agenda (not a healthy one) and is not interested in solving problems. I guess I stayed with him for as long as I did, because I tried to be a sort of "therapy wife" to him. (I guess from my background as a teacher and psych major.) I am the one who consistently tried to clear the air and work things out. He has even told me in the past that I communicate to him so well and have a knack for working things out. But it's like the elephant in the living room. But in this case, we all see the elephant except for him (maybe he's the elephant?, lol). I just wanted to point things out from my perspective. Also, you're right, I should've left him earlier than the ten years we've been together, but it has only dawned on me about two, three years ago that he will continue to attack me regardless (and sometimes even because) of how I am trying to better the situation. I don't mean physically but in other ways. Anyway, just needed to clear the air here.
iVillage Member
Registered: 02-19-2004
Thu, 04-07-2005 - 1:17pm

Did you see my reply in the other thread? Please read that too.

It's really not that I think you are a poor listener or a bad communicator. I think it's deeper than having a special nack for those things. I think it's about finding out why it only became apparent to you in the last 2-3 years that he's never going to change, and why you put so much energy into being a therapy wife. It's not that you *should* have left him 10 years ago, it's exploring and answering (for yourself) *why* you didn't.

Those habits you have developed in the marriage are probably unhealthy because as you said, he has an unhealthy agenda. But you continued on with this unhealthy person for a long time. The habits you have in dealing with him, my therapist calls them 'scripts.' We have scripts in relationships and when we communicate based on those scripts. When we leave the marriage, the scripts don't change automatically and often times we end up having the same problems trying to co-parent that we had trying to be married.

One of my habits with my ex-h was always taking care of everything. I was worried about that when I separated from him, because he was going to have to do some things on his own that he had never done (he was worried too). So I created a budget for him and showed him that with his income and child support from me, and all his bills, he really could make it work. It didn't allay his fears, but it certainly made me feel better, and I figured now his money problems would not be my problem and that was very good (for me, not for him). The first time he had a money problem he called me up. I didn't 'fix' it for him, instead I gave him a long list of suggestions of how he could fix it for himself. I was proud of how I handled it - until that next Wednesday. My therapist explained I was just following the same old script with a little tweak to it. He asked if I thought my list helped my ex-h. I said no, they were all common sense things, the bottom line was that my ex-h was asking me for money and what I should have said was 'no' and left it at that.

The next time he had a problem with money he called me up (this time it was because the police had his car, he had no car insurance and his license was suspended). I told him I would tell dd that he couldn't pick her up the next night but I made no suggestion on how to fix the problem. He then proceeded to give me a list of things he thought he might be able to do to resolve the problem and get his license, insurance and car back. I told him it sounded like he had it under control. Then he asked me to put his car back on my car insurance because that would 'fix' things faster. I said 'no' and left it at that. The third time he had a problem with money, he didn't call (I found out on accident through dd).

Ok, so my situation is no where near as complicated or difficult as yours. I do think you are handling your sitaution very well. Telling your husband either he pays for an apartment or you go on welfare was very smart. Not letting him put it off to the end of the month was wise. But things aren't going to be resolved by moving out, many of the same problems you face today will still be there after you move, just in a different form. You will still be arguing and he will still be interfering and you still won't be liking it. That was mostly my point. This stuff isn't easy, isn't common sense and sometimes it doesn't matter how many books you've read or how much therapy you've had in the past. Therapy while going through divorce is always a good idea.

And again, everything I most is JMHO.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-20-2005
Thu, 04-07-2005 - 1:46pm
Wow, you paid your husband child support? You sound like a very strong and capable woman. You deserve a lot of credit for that. You definitely have a lot to add regarding issues with x's. I guess I am old-fashioned in the sense that I felt that a man needs to take care of a woman. But I am trying to change that. Your therapist was right, I guess your x needed to learn to handle things on his own. He definietly picked the right woman to help him with his life. But you knew that you also need someone who will add to your life, not just someone who will consistently depend on you for your qualities. (Since that's what it sounds like.)
iVillage Member
Registered: 02-19-2004
Thu, 04-07-2005 - 2:16pm

Well, since I've been in therapy for a while now, I can tell you that I picked my husband (and bf's previous to him) because they needed me, financially and just to take care of everything, and I was willing to do that because that meant they wouldn't leave me (they couldn't without losing the benefits I provided to them)... which was important to me because my #1 goal was to never again feel the pain of abandonment (like when my father abandoned me). I was willing to give up love and happiness in exchange for obligation and security. I learned 'strong and capable' from my mother, but she didn't have a choice to be anything but that, she was a single mother. I never had the concept of a man taking care of a women (or even being an equal partner) because I never witnessed anyone do that or have that.

I left him for so many reasons, but one of the big one's was that I developed a chronic illness and I realized taking care of myself was a lot harder with him around. Then there was his addiction to an online video game, financial irresponsibility, lack of interest in sex and intimacy, my affair... it's kind of a long story. Divorcing was definitely the right move for us. We have a great relationship as divorced co-parents.

I pay him child support because I make more money than him (I make 60% of our combined income, so not a ton more than him), and we have 50/50 custody of our dd. I hate paying it, and the fact I have to cover 99% of dd's expenses by myself, but it's the law. I don't have a choice. If you take on the majority of the financial obligation during the marriage, and you have children, you will end up with the majority of the financial obligation after a divorce. Edit: if I had sole custody he would pay me child support, but I couldn't do that because joint custody was in dd's best interests, and I can't put my financial needs above her need to be parented by both of us.

Honestly though, I didn't go to therapy because of my divorce, even though my mom had been urging me to for months. I finally met a great guy, who I viewed as a healthy adult, and I didn't want to screw it up. I was pretty sure I would, not that I wasn't smart or didn't have my head on straight, but because I had never *seen* a healthy relationship and I had no idea how to create one or be a healthy partner in one. I didn't even know how to be with someone that didn't 'need' me. I am so glad I went becaues I have learned a ton about myself and about relationships and what I need. I know I'm not done learning or growing, I hope to never stop doing that (although I also don't plan on being in therapy forever, lol).




Edited 4/7/2005 2:24 pm ET ET by firstamendment

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