How Do You Know?
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How Do You Know?
| Sun, 01-23-2005 - 3:54pm |
How do you know when it's over? When you're ready to move on to other things? When you've given it your all? When that "one last try" isn't going to work?
How did you know?
Soledad

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Soledad,
I think it is different for each situation.
For me it was a whole year of indifference from him, it was my dd senior year and he was completely out of the loop. A position he chose. The senior year is very busy with pictures, prom, senior review, and just all the graduation stuff in general. My daughter was very active in student government as well as an accomplished artist, so she had even more responsibilities that year. But he chose not to participate, why - I still don't know. But when I confronted him several times and told him that we needed him to be there for us he declined, said he didn't feel like it! I lost respect for him and so did my daughter. That is something that some people can never give back.
He was always abusive during our marriage, both verbally and emotionally and sometimes physically too. But I thought I should stick it out cause the kids needed a father. I came from divorced parents too and didn't want my kids going through that. I kind of became numb towards him.
Then one day my ds and I were going to go to the local auto show on our own again, cause we figured he would'nt go. But he made a big deal about it and got free tickets from work and so we planned on all going together. The entire day was one big screaming mess. He started with road rage against another driver, while my ds was driving on his permit. Then when we got there we parked miles away to save a few bucks (we made a good income) and were practically frozen when we got to the building. He had an extra free ticket that I wanted him to give to my dd's boyfriend but he thought it would be better to scalp it at the door when we got there. My ds and I refused to stand by him and be embarrassed. We told him we would be upstairs in line - then when he didn't come after 45 mins I went to look for him where we left him. He started to scream at me from the bottom of the escalator and all the way up and to the entrance while everyone looked on.
That was the final straw for me - I thought what am I doing, what am I teaching my poor children. You see this was a common thread in our marriage, that not even counseling could break, two years before we went to counseling only for as long as the insurance would cover. I went to see a lawyer the following week.
Sorry this was so long - but I think you get the picture.
e
i agree that each situation is different, and it depends on what is going on in the marriage, what do you mean by "giving it your all", and what are the alternatives?
for me - it was understanding (i mean REALLY UNDERSTANDING) exactly who and what my ex is. i mean, i had this picture in my mind of what i thought he was, of how he portrayed himself - only it took me a long time to admit that (a) i never loved him and (b) i was very unhappy WITH HIM (this is after I dealt with *my* issues on my own), and (c) my son was so unhappy that he was contemplating suicide, and (d) my ex is/was an abusive controlling SOB.
it was very difficult for me to ADMIT this to myself, to the therapist but once i got past that point - and once i realized that i UNDERSTAND what my ex is, but I cannot LIVE WITH THIS KIND OF PERSON any more - that is when i realized that i needed to get out. I knew that for 7 years i was lying - lying to myself, and lying to the 'outter world' that we are this one-big-happy-family ----- when the TRUTH was that we weren't. weren't happy, weren't a family. my ex - for reasons of his own - totally distanced himself from me an dmy son, all the while complaining and claiming that DS & I had formed some kind of *coalition* against him. NOT TRUE. he was controlling about everything - from money, to affection, to the remote control. NOBODY should have to live like that.
I don't know what your issues are, or what you tried to do to fix things. IMHO - some marriages cannot be saved. IF you know that you tried (e.g., therapy) and the *problems* are not getting fixed, and you can no longer associate with someone like your spouse - then you have your answer.
Karen ~ wildlucky4me ~
Maybe it would help if I gave more details........
We've been married almost 3 years. A year and a half ago, he started going out often (5 nights a week) and hosting huge poker parties in our house twice a week. Effectively busy nightly. Most of that time he's drunk (not abusive drunk at least). We don't spend time together, and when we do, it feels forced. I'd rather be anywhere than alone with him. We don't communicate. Sex is almost nonexistant and when it happens, it's awful.
I feel obligated to still try to meet his other needs as best I can, but I don't feel he reciprocates (for example, he knows how important our pets are to me, but won't ever pick up their food when they're out and will let them go hungry unless I get it, he won't take out the trash but will let it PILE there for days, never returns my calls, doesn't come home when he says he will). I've tried everything except therapy -- books, date night, asking nicely, using "I" language, being mean, crying, screaming, nagging, the works. Honestly at this point, I believe he can change but I don't believe it would be permanent. He's made several promises to stop drinking over the years but he's never lasted more than 2 days. About once a month he promises (under his own steam) to cut back on going out and not go out more than twice a week. It was always broken the next day.
I fluctuate between feeling angry over the whole situation and feeling sad over what will never be. I don't know if there's anything left in me to keep trying, and even if there is, I don't know if there's anything left to save.
I don't have anyone to turn to for advice other than here so I'm basically on my own.
Hope this clarifies a little.
Soledad
honey - you are dealing with an addict. and that is a whole other ball game. it doesn't matter WHAT you do and how you try to meet his needs - it is typical behavior of addicts to do WHAT *they* want when *they* want it - it is typical for them to make promises just so that they will get what they want (sex, attention, no more nagging, etc) - but its just empty promises.
There is no point in going to marital therapy. he needs to go to AA (well, he needs to CHOOSE To go to AA otherwise there is no point) and i can only suggest that YOU go to al-anon, or to an AA open meeting (for friends and relatives of alcoholics), or contact CODA (co-dependents)
to be honest - having lived with an addict myself - i can tell you that you can get divorced but unless yOU get help for yourself, you will find yourself in the same kind of pattern over and over.
http://www.aa.org/
http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/
http://www.codependents.org/
You're in a bad space if you're asking that question. Everyone here has been there.
It's different for everyone.
For me, it was the end of 5 years of fighting for something I wanted, but wasn't here. It was the day I knew in my gut that I had exhausted every counselor, book and process and could, with a clear conscious, stand before my kids in the future and say I tried my best and did everythign I knew how to do. You can't have a marraige without a partner. I think people throw in the towel too soon sometimes because many marriages could be saved with some giving on both parts and a good kick in the butt by a good, blunt counselor. BUT, there are people that would rather stay intrenched in patterns that aren't healthy for you or children. One counselor told me, 5 years before I left. "no one can make the choice for you to leave or not. You will either stay and grow to be bitter, or you'll wake up one day and just "know" it's time to leave". She also made me realize my children had a better chance at health in the future with my ex and I divorced and in healthy relationships, than the one we were in. I was suffocating. I tried every avenue I knew how to keep things together. I didn't take splitting up the children from their father, lightly. I hadn't worked in 15 years and so I had fear and anxiety in that area, but there comes a time, you jump off the cliff because the cliff is safer than where you are. There comes a time that you jump off in faith. I'm still not sure how i made it through those months financially, but I did. I didn't work out on paper, but like a friend told me, make the choice and things will fall into place.
It's a great place to be. It's tormentuous to be in the 'not knowing' and the 'what if's. I couldn't make him love me. He was going through his own stuff, but I couldn't fix the problems alone and he opted to leave the cousneling. I think he wanted out but was too afraid to do anything. Like our counselor said, he didn't want the divorce really, he just wasn't going to do anything to stop it either. There comes a time when you 'just know'. It's an empty place, but a sure place and it's the beginning of a new life if you'll let it be. Stand with a clear heart that you've tried all you could.
It's hard to hear people in that 'space', but I've had two years to look back where I was, from where I've come to today and I can tell you, even though it's the hardest most gut wrenching thing I've ever done, it's also the best thing I've ever done for myself and my kids. I found someone that is truly my match. I've never felt connected, not in all the 15 years of marriage, like I've expereienced. God has a way of closing doors and opening windows. When you are at your lowest, the deepest growth can happen in your life. Look at your own mirror, excavate, don't repeat. It's an amazing journey if you'll let it be. One day at a time.......people used to tell me it will pass, it get's easier and it's true. Pain has a way of causing you to look at things and life and yourself, like you've never done before.
Hang on. You'll 'know' when it's time. I don't know your specifics, but exhaust every avenue, but when it's time to go, it's time to go.
My heart goes out to you.
Countrygal mom,
I just wanted to thank you for the things you wrote, even though I didnt make the original post. So many of the things you said seemed like my own situation. Right now, I am still in that space of not knowing what to do: call it quits and move on or continue to "wait" for him to continue with counseling....
I dont know how long to wait. That is where I am at. But, your words let me know that the time will come when I do "know".
Thanks,
Joy
It may sound naive, but I remember a Dr. Phil saying -- "You have to earn your way out of a marriage".
In my case, I was married for ten years. The day after we got married, my ex threatened to divorce me. She continued with this threat about once every three months, whether I needed to hear it or not.
We had seen numerous counselors over the entire marriage. Every counseling went the same -- she elaborated all of my faults and failures as a man, husband and father for about six to nine months. Then the counselor would want to shift the focus to her, and she'd stop going.
In the last five years of marriage, we had sex twice. She simply cut me off. If I touched her, or kissed her, or hugged her, she claim I physicaly or sexually molested her. Or she'd start with the accusations that I was cheating on her.
She had two daughters from a previous marriage. The elder was an emotional mess and a drug addict. That made matters worse, especially since me ex refused to beleive or accept that she was using drugs and booze.
I had been sexually molested a boy. A seemingly "kind" family friend was in fact a sexual preditor and raped me over a period of seven years from the time I was ten. I came to terms with this and dealt with the emotional baggage during the course of our numerous counceling sessions. So, to teh men out there, counseling came do you some good!
I told me ex about this and she had two responses: first, she was very agry with me because I let it happen (as if a ten year old boy could stop an adult man from continually raping him). There's nothing quite as emotionally demoralizing as blaming a rape victim.
Second: she started to accuse me that I was secretly fantasizing about raping my two step daughters, or our son. She beleived that all men molested as children turn into rapists as adults.
My ex was getting her PhD. Although she was on a stipend, it in no means paid the bills. So I paid the way for her, the girls and our son.
I spent five years working on the technical aspects of her PhD. I paid for the extravegant life style of our family. I got both girls through high school and into college.
There were "three" last straws.
Number One: Our last christmas together. Christmas was a big deal. Everybody gets lots and lots of presents. My ex, the girls and my son all had huge stacks of presents. I got one present -- a $6.38 sweatshirt from sam's club, with the receipt still attached.
Second: Because she refused to accept or give any form of physical contact with me, I was looking into forms of medical treatment to reduce my need for physical contact. (Like chemical castration.)
Third: When she received her finished PhD Thessis document, I was not mentioned. She thanked her family, her children, her professors. But me -- nothing. And I did over half of the work!
I know this is long winded.
I earned my way out. No rock was left unturned. When I left, I had fullfilled all of my obligations and promises.
Wow.... and I'm wondering how in the world that she'll USE "your" Ph.D. (or do anything else for that matter) without you.
I can clearly see that you've done the work to get where you are today, and you should be very proud of that.
Karen ~ wildlucky4me ~
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