I need quick opinions please...

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-18-2003
I need quick opinions please...
13
Thu, 01-20-2005 - 1:12pm

My ex is still trying to work on getting the kids 50% of the time in a Shared Custody type of arrangment. At first I thought he was saying this just to push my buttons..but he had a talk with my son a few weeks ago...trying to talk him into this. My son and I were talking about school the other day...and he said "dad told me that if i stayed there he would drive me to school." Well anyone who knows anything about my situation knows my ex is a trucker and is not always home in the mornings to drive my kids to school. He figures he can do this now because his new girlfriend that he so quickly moved in with a few months ago..can look after MY kids.
My son is 10 years old and was very upset the other night with the thought of having to live there half the time. He is never comfortable going there..not even every second weekend when the kids go to their dad's and girlfriends house.
I told my son if he absolutly didn't want this that he needs to voice this to his father. He is scared of his father getting upset. ( i think i am really starting to notice his father controlling him much like he controlled me when we were togehter...he makes him feel bad if he makes a choice that isn't necessarily the choice his father wants. So I told my son maybe he was more comfortabe writing it in a letter to his father. Is this wrong?
I think my ex needs to take into consideration what my kids feel about this. Neither one of my children want the situaiton changed at all from how it is now. If my ex doesn't see this...then we go to trial. A judge is not going to listen to what my children say or how they feel because they are too young. I told my son he needs to speak up and tell his dad that he doesn't want this..or else a judge decides.
My son is going to write a letter tonight to his dad. He wants to tell his dad..that he doesn't want to hurt his feelings...but he doesn't want this. My son plans to give it to him this weekend..while he is at his dad's. I told my son if his father then gets upset...that he should call me as soon as he can without his father getting upset..and i will come and pick him up.
My question is...is this wrong for me to do? I want my children to be able to talk to their dad about things that bother or concern them..but they are scared of him getting mad. So this was my suggestion to my son. A part of me feels bad..because it is SOOO putting my son on the spot...but the ex isn't going to listen to me. He will hopefully listen to children that are saying they don't want shared custody.
My children are 10 and 7 and go to their father's every second weekend. This is how it has been since we seperated 2 1/2 years ago. A few months ago he moved in with his girlfriend. The children express to me that they are uncomfortable their. My ex told my son that "this is your home now too" ..my son told him it didn't feel like home" my ex got upset and told him he had to get used to it being home.

What are your opinions? Is the letter a bad thing to do? I am going to sit down with my son while he writes it and help him with it if it becomes emotional for him. I also want to keep a copy of the letter for myself...in case it is ever needed in court.

Am I doing a bad thing??
I normally post at the Domestic Abuse: New Beginnings board..but bring some of the questions relating to the divorce over here. My ex (children's father) is a very controlling man...and emotionally and mentally abusive to me..and beginning that way to the children.
We have been seperated for 2 1/2 years..and we have had joint custody with primary residence with me since this time. He takes every second weekend..and we have had this arrangement all the time. Recently the child support amount was UPPED...and now he wants to stop paying child support..or start paying less..and thus his reason for wanting SHARED 50% custody.
Please help with your opinions.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 01-20-2005 - 1:44pm

brooke_gal...


Pianoguy thinks that you and your soon-to-be-EX should NOT INFLUENCE THE CHILDREN IN ANY WAY!

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-18-2003
Thu, 01-20-2005 - 2:15pm

WHOOAAAA!
Did I say ANYWHERE in my post that I am bad mouthing their father to them?? No..not one bit. In fact..I have done everything I can possible do to make this transition as easy as possible on them. I have had them in counselling..myself in counselling...taken parenting after seperation courses. I did not influence my child when he said he didn't want to spent 50% of the time there. I think you totally miread this..and looked at it as an opportunity to jump on me as if I am screwing their father over which I am not.

What this is about and if you looked at it more carefully is this...

My son has expressed concern to me about the 50% issue. Sure it has me upset..but I am in no way influencing my child one way or another about whether he should agree or not agree to this situation. He DOESN'T want it! He is 10 years old and has a mind that works on his own.
Perhaps his father is trying to pursuade him..but I am certainly not.
As for you saying that "IT IS THEIR CALL" actually you are wrong. At this age...it isn't their call. It is a judges.
Thank you for your opinion...but I think you jumped on me for bad talking their father..therefore my child doesn't want to go there. I said I was going to assist my son if he needed help. Did I say I would sit down and tell him what to write? No!! I asked him if he wanted to do this. It was his choice!!

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-20-2005
Thu, 01-20-2005 - 4:04pm

My ex is trying wants to revise and get 1/2 of the summers now that he has a new wife that can care for our children. He has 2 weeks in the summer now and every other weekend and one week night for dinner. He didn't ask for more when we divorced, but now wants them because he has a wife at home.

Do you have a formal visitation scedule written down? Is it a court order?

From what i understand, at least in my state, there has to be a 'significant change of circumstance' to alter what has been consistently happening. A girlfriend moving in, isn't going to meet that. Often times a remarriage doesn't either. In my state, modifications happen, but they are difficult because the courts like to keep things 'the same' for the kids. Your kids are old enough a judge may interview them. He/she may not make a total decision on it, but they will often listen. My oldest told me the same yours did, that he was afraid to tell his dad he didnt' want to go for 6 weeks in the summer. He did say he would tell a Judge though. Made me sick.
A letter isn't a bad idea, I don't think, unless your ex is going to use it against your son and the backlash isn't worth it. I've told my kids, If you want to go, I won't fight him, but if you don't, I will. I asked for their input because they are the ones that have to actually live with the consequences first hand.

If you were in my state, and most states have a "in the best interest of the child" premise, he would have no grounds to modify our agreement and it would be thrown out. Keep in mind, no court in their right mind is going to allow a girlfriend to care for the children over a biological parent and if he's a trucker, obviously that isn't going to work.

In my case, the new wife has enforced and wants my ex to get more time. He never did when he was left to his own accord and I take issue with me being available to care for my children and them sitting with a step mother during the day. (no offense meant)

If you have a formal decree or parenting agreement, that will determine how vulnerable you are to having anything changed, but breathe..........as my attorney has told me a million times, the courts do what is reasonable (most of the time) and children being with a truck driving father (meaning gone) and staying with a girlfriend over a mother that is available, isn't reasonable. They are used to a certain routine. If you did go to court, I would request a custody evaluator be called in. Judges usually do what they recommend and if there aren't any significant issues on your end, your kids consistency will be of priority as well as an evaluator WILL care what your kids say.

Don't know if that helps. I know it sends your heart into a panick attack!

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-19-2003
Thu, 01-20-2005 - 4:33pm

Hey.... I don't think pianoguy meant that you were actually bad mouthing dad... but that asking your son to write the letter was not a good idea... and I agree.


If your son writes his dad a letter about this, he'll just be fanning a fire.


Karen ~ wildlucky4me ~

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-18-2003
Thu, 01-20-2005 - 6:02pm
Hello and thank you for your words. Its comforting to know others are going through something similar.
My ex is very much like yours. He could have cared less about the kids when he was single. Now that he has a new woman..and has moved into her home..I think he feels all of a sudden he has someone to help him raised OUR kids.
I am in Canada..but my lawyer has advised me about the "significant change of circumstance". He has already told me that he is going to quit his great paying trucking job...to pump gas and be home every night. He figures he has the world by the you know what this way. You see...he will be home everynight for the kids..plus he won't have to pay me the child support he does now. I was told however that the kids would need to be around 13 or 14 for a judge to consider their opinions in this. I just pray that a judge will see that the kids have been living in this situation for 2 1/2 years with me having primary residence. I am the one that drives them to hockey...to figure skating...to medical appts, to birthday parties...to the hospital...to school...to parent teacher interviews. I am the one who has looked after EVERYTHING for the last 2 1/2 years. Dad couldn't even make any arrangements to come to the children's Christmas Concert at school.
I too agree..if my children don't want to go..I am not going to force them to go. I suppose I could have his lawyer screaming at me saying I am denying access...BUT if my kids don't want to go..i will fight for them.
My ex's girlfriend is the one that is pushing too. Before he met her...him and I could go for lunch together with the kids...attend sporting activities together with the kids..etc..etc..but as soon as he became involved with her...he became very miserable..difficult..and impossible to get along with or reason with. When I call him..he repeats everything I say..so she can hear everything I am saying to him. I told him it would maybe be easier if she just picked up an extension in the house. (rolling eyes)
The only thing in place as for agreements is a court order made a few years back when we split up the first time. Giving joint custody to the both of us but primary residence to me. He is making an application now for SHARED.
I have a question for you..what does a custody evaluator do??
I am so so terribly scared about it.
He sits down with my children and tries to manipulate them into coming to live with him. My guess is he is trying to manipulate them to agreeing to stay with him willingly..so he wouldn't have to go through the courts because he may realize how difficult that may be for him. But I don't agree with him continually putting them on the spot about this. He is a controlling man and is trying to manipulate and mold these kids into believing they should be with him 50% of the time even though he won't be there. He is going to GUILT them into going with him. I won't allow it until a judge tells me differently. In fact on the advice of my lawyer at this point..she advised me not to give him ANY extra time with them. She said to allow him his weekends..but NO more...because now is when he is going to pour it on thick that he spends ALL this extra time with the kids...even though he doesn't. I have been documenting everything and will continue to. My kids are in counselling..and will continue to attend. I just feel so bad for them..they are the ones stuck in the middle of this.
Thanks for your opinions, advice and information..you really did help alot.
I've told my son that if he still wants he can write a letter tonight...but that he can just keep it here....or give it to his dad if he chooses..or do whatever with it. It is his choice...it is his relationship with his father...
I agree though..I don't want his father to backlash. But I also don't want my children to be put in a situation that they are very scared and worried about. (the shared custody).
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 01-20-2005 - 8:55pm

Yes, your Ex is trying to put your son in the middle when he tries to persuade the boy toward a change in custody. It is wrong for him to discuss an adult issue with a ten year old. If the child would not be listened to by the Court, then why does the Dad need to try to convince the boy? Your son can agree with Dad or not, it makes NO difference.

On the one hand, we do want to teach our kids to speak openly with family about their feelings and needs. But we do ourselves (and them) a diservice if we encourage them to try to insert their vote into ADULT decisions. Does that make sense? Does it ring true to you? Kids need security, they need to see that we are taking care of the Big Stuff. Let your boy be a boy, tell him not to worry about it. Right?

And in one degree your Ex is right. For the days that the kids are with him, his house is their home, and they do need to "get used to it," and learn how to fit in there. I hope that your attorney is going to be able to help you keep the status quo. I have heard that you will have a certain advantage, if the kids are doing fine the way things are now. Good luck.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-19-2003
Thu, 01-20-2005 - 9:10pm

I agree about the home thing, too.... and that we do have MANY homes during our lives.


Karen ~ wildlucky4me ~

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-28-2003
Fri, 01-21-2005 - 8:00am

wow this is a tough one brooke. of course, you are the person who knows your child and ex better - but my gut is saying "no, your child shouldn't write this letter, in fact your child should not even be forced into this *choosing* position" because that's what it boils down to. I know that its hard for you - but this man IS his father and unless you can prove ABUSE (which i think is not the case) then the kids have to go to dad too (and yes, to dad's gf)...


I just think that you are putting too much of a grown up burden on a 10 yo's shoulders. any kids of any age of any family situation will constantly try to check the boundaries, see how far they can go - and your son is not different in that sense. it is up to US (the parents) to point out the boundaries, put up the fences, reinforce the rules over and over ---- it is *THIS* that gives our kids the stability that they so need. is this going to be easy with one parent going one way and the other parent going the other way? NO. but all the more reason for YOU to be the voice of *reason* and *logic* here.


and one more note - and i am saying this because i have been thru this with my son too. DON'T help your son find the *easy way out*. if you keep on doing this (and i am not saying you are - but i do recognize this pattern coming form an abusive marriage) you are only going to make things mroe and more difficult for your son. sit down with him and TEACH HIM how to talk to difficult people - its the greatest gift you can give him. play-act with him -you be "him" and he be "daddy" or "teacher" or whomever. its very tempting for us to help them find the easy way out - but its usually not the best way. just sit down and start to analyze the situation that he THINKS will happen. just keep asking him "and then what will happen" again and again. let your son understand that daddy may be angry, or whatever - but he most likely will not harm him. and that it is so important that your son understands that its HARD and its SCARY but we do it anyway.


iVillage Member
Registered: 03-28-2003
Fri, 01-21-2005 - 8:01am
HEY PIANOGUY! great to see ya here!
iVillage Member
Registered: 01-20-2005
Fri, 01-21-2005 - 10:18am

Sorry, this is long and written to brooke_gal for all those that don't want to read. :)

In thinking about it, my ex, guilt’s and manipulates as well and there's a reason that my oldest would rather tell a judge than his father he doesn't want to go for 1/2 the summers. He loves his dad, wants to spend time, but doesn't want the inflexible relationship we have, to interrupt his ability to have a life. His dad doesn't take him to events, allow his friends over and lives only 25 miles away, anyway.

I've never done a custody evaluation, but my brother did to get an extra overnight with his daughter. He already had 48% custody and different circumstances. They were both decent people, the mother a bit more flighty. They interviewed everyone, including boy friends and older kids. It's like talking to a counselor I guess. She gave them personality tests and spent a couple hours with them. My sister in law didn't like the process, and the evaluator that is chosen is critical. Your attorney will advise you of some good ones. There are father friendly ones, mother friendly ones; there are some that believe in not splitting 50/50 custody, those that are and everything in between. You can make an appointment with one and go talk with them beforehand. You probably can't use that one, but it will give you an idea of what they are looking for. They are hopefully serving the best interest of the child and while both parents are in the best interest, so is consistency. You have 2 1/2 years in your favor. Ask your attorney, they may interview your son, a Judge. Like I said, they weigh and measure the weight and age, but it may persuade them. In my state, it’s around 12 they start giving full weight to a child’s input. It makes you want to throw up because they are old enough to have an opinion, but not many in the legal world listen. It's tricky not to play the legal drama. The kids are afraid of the change and that DOESN'T mean you are the cause or bad mouthing their father. I have gnawed my tongue off more times than I care to say....for them. Their father is a jerk.......but he's still their father and they relate any bad mouthing to them personally, but it's hard, I don't care what people judge you on, unless you've dealt with someone controlling, manipulative and that lies openly and then add a significant other on top of that that adds a huge pile of more crap, it sometimes has a tendency to ruin a day!!!

Have your kid’s journal. That's helped my 12 year old a lot. There’s still the fear of the legal process and it causes a lot of anxiety and makes things be inflexible. It shuts down communication, puts everyone on the defensive and you have to record, document and play a sick game that steals time and money and it's hard.......the whole thing.

It sounds like you've taken steps that are helpful. Your son can talk to a counselor and in my state, that counselor could come to court and talk on his behalf. You might look into that. I never imagined a significant other could turn so many things upside down.

Don't let him have extra time. Child support should be based on potential income if he chooses to quit and make minimum wage. In my state, that doesn't fly. My ex threatened to sue for full custody and get a minimum wage job too and me pay him support. It was an empty threat and you know, so may his be. He may consult with an attorney and an attorney may tell him just what kind of a battle he has in front of him. Fortunately, history is in our favor.

I don't mean to sound 'man negative', but some fathers aren't great dads. I've seen both sides. My brother is an incredible father and has had to fight tooth and nail to get his daughter from a 'not all there' mother. He pays above guidelines for support and without it being mandated. My ex, had to have a wage withholding older placed, he has, since his sign. other has been around, kept most of his visitations, but nothing extra until now, "they" would like the kids there for the summers. what ever.........he hasn't even taken the 2 weeks he's had in the summer time. A lot is for threat sometimes and for control. I used to flip out, not I just document everything to cover my butt and only flip out on bad days. ;).

Be reasonable, not just for your kids sake, but also for the Judge to see that you are willing to work with him, but once he's talking about going to court, be protective as well. Being too flexible will bite you later.

Have you thought about writing him a letter and asking him to go to a mediator? You'd save thousands and a good mediator will tell him the chances of him getting shared custody after 2 1/2 years is not really high, but may help you reach something you can all live with. Our mediator cared what the kids thought as well. Tell him this will, I don't care how good you are at hiding it from the kids, hurt the kids if you go through a custody evaluation and back to court. The stress is SO damaging and can be avoided if people would just grow up. In my case, I spent 17 hours in mediation with my ex this past year to try and resolve 17 counts of contempt he was in. We left with an agreement and he changed it, including visitation, the day before we were to go to court. He rewrote things we didn't ever talk about. Mediation isn't binding, so he could do that and of course I told him to bite me and so we basically wasted money and time. It was discouraging, but I've also had a great mediator experience too. So....it's worth the effort, but I'd never spend that much time again. It turned into a therapy session for my ex, however, it did let me know what he was thinking about me and what lies he's told. Let's just say I document and record everything!!! I have to defend myself because anyone that has been through the courts knows it can go both ways and if you get a judge on a bad day, it can turn your life upside down!

If he won't do mediation, just keep the agreement you have, to the letter, document everything and let him open the can of worms. Tell your son not to worry, that you and his dad will work something out. If he quits his job, he's not going to be able to afford to pay for a custody battle. My brother's was $23,000. The evaluation it's self was $2,000 and the cost will be split, at least here. So, until you have papers knocking at your door, don't worry just yet. I know it's easier said than done. I'm trying to take my own advice as we speak.

Kids need to know what is happening. My 10 year old is VERY aware there is something and they want to know what it means to THEIR life. I don't think they need the nitty gritty details, but they do need to know something is going on, in my opinion. Kids know there's crap being flung back and forth, even without hearing it first hand, they are very in tune, more than adults give them credit for. They know parents are stressed out, they see you cry; they see you behind closed doors talking, etc. I've tried hard to shield them, but there are BAD days!

Hang in there. I don’t know if that helps. Sometimes I think it helps to just hear someone else has felt like throwing up too. There’s no guarantees in court, so that is what makes it scary.

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