Need Divorced Moms' Perspective

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-03-2004
Need Divorced Moms' Perspective
26
Fri, 12-03-2004 - 4:19pm

I'm a Dad who's been divorced officially a little over a year and I'm looking for a divorced Mom's perspective on my situation. I had an extremely nasty divorce and continue to have a War of the Roses type relationship with my ex-wife which I've stopped trying to understand and just gotten used to dealing with.

I live in New York and have 2 daughters ages 6 and 3 who live in Michigan with their Mom. I consented to allow them to move away because my ex got a job and I was out of work at the time. Moving was also the only way my ex would consent to selling our house which was impending foreclosure. Before they left I tried to put together a pretty comprehensive visitation schedule which included monthly trips for me to MI to see my girls and time during the summer and holidays as well as phone calls twice a week. We share Joint Legal Custody and there are also specific clauses about me being informed and apprised of their schooling, medical care and extra curricular activities.

My ex has repeatedly defies court orders and makes my visits and contact with my children extremely difficult. She has yelled and screamed at me at the door when I pick up my kids. She refused to let me have my kids for Spring Break despite the fact that the divorce agreement says I should. She has played constant games with my phone calls by monitoring calls and intimidating my children into not conversing freely with me. She disconnects my calls and won't take my return calls. She won't accept presents from my side of the family for the kid's birthday's and Christmas. She's moved in Michigan and won't give me her new address or phone number. She won't pack clothes for my kids when I visit them for weekends or holidays. I had them for Thanksgiving and it snowed and she sent them out without hats or gloves. She changed my daughter's name at school to her maiden name. She didn't tell me when my daughter went to the hospital. She won't share what extracurricular activities my children participate in. She refused to pick up my kids from NY this summer despite the fact that the court order said she should. So I had to take them back twice (I had a break in my schedule because she cried to the judge and said 5 week's straight was too long).

Now granted she's very angry. The divorce was my idea. Simultaneously I lost my job which forced her to go out and get one. Towards the end of the marraige I wasn't the greatest husband and wasn't honest about things I said I was going to do. I did this because she was controlling and I yessed her when I didn't want to do what she wanted. She thinks I'm a bad Dad and a pervert because I turned to the internet when our intimacy waned.

But despite that I pay my child support a month in advance. I haven't missed a visit yet. When I do go we have a great time visiting kids museums, play spaces, parks, and seeing movies. I keep calling and insist on speaking to my kids. I NEVER speak poorly to my kids about their mother even though I know she constantly villifies me. I pack extra clothes for them because their mom won't. I take them to see their grandparents and extended paternal family because their mom wants them to have nothing to do with my kids. I'm battling in court to get more time and more specifics to be kept apprised of events and not miss calls. In short I'm not giving up.

Now I ask the Divorced Mom's of this board, what kind of mother behaves this way? Doesn't she see that this not only hurts me but hurts our children?

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iVillage Member
Registered: 02-19-2004
Fri, 12-03-2004 - 4:49pm

No. She doesn't see her own behavior or even that it is affecting her negatively. That is no way for a person to live. She's not only making your life harder and the children's lives harder, she's making her life harder. The only thing you can do is make sure you document everything that happens. You should vigorously defend your rights in court, although you should keep being fair and reasonable - like asking for a little extra time and insisting she comply with the court order - not like blaming her or trying to punish her for what she has done.

Outside of vigorously protecting your right to see your children, you should just be the nicest person you can. Try not to do anything to anger her, or argue about past issues. Start sentences with "I know we only want what's best for the children" and "I want to hear your thoughts on how the children handled the transition back home last time." Say things like, "I am sure you tried to think of everything when packing, but the girls don't have any gloves or hats, I bought some extra one's and I'll send them back with the girls so they can use them the rest of the winter too. Maybe next time we can go over the list of things to pack together before I pick them up." Do this so that she can see you are not out to make her life miserable, and to try to get her OFF the defensive. Then you can start addressing bigger issues like knowing what is going on with the children's teachers and being able to handle parenting/custody decisions outside of court. Of course, one of your biggest hurdles will be "I know you find it hard to be away from the girls for 5 weeks at a time, and I bet you can't imagine how hard it is for me to not see them the majority of the year." Sometimes mothers think that they are the only parent that matters, and the courts sometimes act like they agree. Somehow dad's are supposed to be okay with just 'visiting' their kids. The majority of mother's out there will never face that situation, and may not even try to put themselves in the father's shoes so to speak.

There are lots of people in your situation and it's not easy. I just started reading this book, ex-etiquette. I got it at the library. I have a very amicable relationship with my ex, and I thought it would be interesting to see if they suggested anything I'm not already doing. But my boyfriend has an ex that has moved out of state and is making it impossible for him to see his son. He cannot talk to her at all. It's so frustrating because all he wants is to be a good dad to his son. Anyway I haven't got very far but the book has some good suggestions for dealing with a very angry ex spouse, and you might find it helpful.




Edited 12/27/2004 10:25 am ET ET by firstamendment

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iVillage Member
Registered: 04-03-2003
Fri, 12-03-2004 - 11:13pm

i just wanted to offer my sympathy, frankly, that must really suck during the Holiday's especially.

i think firstamendment got it right but also, remember that as your children grow they will be able to see who is being the mature one and THEY will thank you for it, and THEY will be better people because they had one mature, smart, firm parent. They can't see it now cuz they are so young, but someday, they will.

so come post whenever you need a little up-lifting. i'm sorry she can't be more objective about things. It's so sad.

jen

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-28-2003
Sat, 12-04-2004 - 12:04pm

i am sorry your ex is acting this way. all she is succeeding in doing is harming your children. all i can say is for you to continue to be the best father you can be, and make sure you keep records of EVERYTHING - every payment, every court agreement that she violates - everything.


one other thought: i know that its convenient to take your kids to "fun" stuff - but i would suggest you do other things as well. they should think of you as a parent, not just a 'disney-dad'. spend time just talking, or playing in a 'regular' playground, reading books, going to the library story hour, etc.


good luck!

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-03-2004
Mon, 12-06-2004 - 10:18am

I continue to document everything and I have a court hearing this Friday which I hope will make things a little clearer.

Interesting point about the Disney Dad thing. I like taking them places when I see them because I want things to be fun and eduacational. When I go to MI I stay in a hotel so its not that "homey" to just sit and chat.

However I always make sure we read stories before bed time and we do converse in the car to and from places. I do take them to "regular" playgrounds weather permitting, which in MI is pretty rare. But when I had them this summer we had fun riding scooters outside, walking to get ice cream in the neighborhood, playing checkers and watching cartoons together.

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-03-2004
Mon, 12-06-2004 - 10:40am

Thanks firstamendment. Who is the author of the ex-ettiquite book you're reading. Sounds like something I could definately get into on the plane.

In reality I wish I could talk to my ex to have discussions with her but the truth is I just can't. She won't talk to me about anything. The only way I can communicate with her is through lawyers or the court.

Reviewing the packing items is particularly funny for a number of reasons, presently because she DOESN'T PACK anything, that's precisely the point, she wants me to provide all the clothes. The first summer vacation I had with them (2 years ago) I made a list of items I felt the girls needed and she bristled at being told what to do and refused to pack anything. Perhaps the timing is appropriate because I have a court hearing on Friday in MI and clothing is one of the issues, guess we'll see what the judge says.

How does your BF deal with not being able to communicate with his ex?

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-28-2003
Mon, 12-06-2004 - 11:46am
please keep us posted on the friday court hearing. it sounds to me like you are a warm, good, thoughtful, creative dad!
iVillage Member
Registered: 02-19-2004
Mon, 12-06-2004 - 11:46am

Here is the book: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1556525516/qid=1102351014/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/002-5743038-9975233?v=glance&s=books
I'm not even 1/2 way through but so far it seems interesting.

My bf is not dealing with not being able to talk to his son's mother. His son was just moved out of state recently, and he's supposed to be able to visit regularly. He gets a short amount of time in the summer but that is a long way away. Somehow she just can't see how hard it is for his father to be away from him. It's killing him and taking a huge emotional toll on him. All he wants is to be a parent to his child. He shouldn't have to go bankrupt to do that.

You must spend a fortune on attorney's fees and travel expenses to see your children. I would like to know how it goes for you in court, please let us know. It's crazy to say the children should have a second wardrobe when with you if they are not with you much. I have 50/50 custody with my ex, and we send my 4 year olds fall/winter/spring clothes back and forth each week. This last summer we had enough with hand-me-downs and a few inexpensive summer dresses that we had enough clothes at each house and that was nice. But to send your kids for weekend or a week without clothes is ridiculous.




Edited 12/27/2004 10:03 am ET ET by firstamendment

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iVillage Member
Registered: 12-03-2004
Mon, 12-06-2004 - 12:58pm

Tell your bf he needs to utilize the court to make things as fair as possible. Granted he may not want to use a lawyer, and maybe he doesn't have to. In MI they have an agency called the Friend of the Court that will review cs and visitation as long as you follow thier process, don't know where you are or how it works. But even if he does need a lawyer it will probably save him more in the long run. I would say he needs to do everything he can to see his son.

Financially its rough on me but I'll hitch hike to MI if I have to because I'm not going to miss any time with my kids. The cs thing is bothersome because that's all the courts seem to care about. My ex is complaining that she doesn't have enough $$ for clothes for them, but she just bought a new house. Money I wanted to put down on a condo went to lawyers so I'm still in an apartment.

I'm just trying to get what I think is fair and the only way I know how to to that is to use the court system. Your bf needs to make sure he's got a fair visitation and cs arrangement. Sounds like its a battle because his ex wants to make it that way. I learned the hard way that you don't get any points for being nice. He shouldn't put up with an arrangement that unfair and should fight to fix it if its not. Not having them on holidays is REDICULOUS! At a minimum they should alternate and unless he's an axe murderer there's no court that won't grant him time. How far away is his son? He needs to work on a new and fair visitation schedule. Tell him it may take time and that he won't get everything he wants right away but that's insane that he has NO holiday time.

I'll let you all know how it goes on Friday in court for me. I'm hopeful because it also means I'll get to have my girls for a week between Xmas and New Years!

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-19-2004
Mon, 12-06-2004 - 1:22pm

It's a long sordid mess, but the courts are not helping his situation, they are making it worse. He can't just show up and take his son for visitation, because the current order is not specific. If he just showed up, he could call the police but there would be nothing to enforce. And he doesn't have the money to go until they can get back into court and reduce the child support or have them share in travel expenses. It's really gut wrenching to watch someone who is so devoted to his son be ripped from is life like it's nothing.

Also, he hates the idea of spending time in a hotel with his child. At his home he has sports equipment and they were very phyically active playing sports and going to the park. He has animals so they would spend time together playing with them. He has toys, video games, books, his computer, his son's bike, etc., but when he goes out of state he will have nothing. He will have spent all his money on getting there, paying for the hotel, renting a car, etc., and that will limit what they can go do. Plus the court only granted him a day 1/2 per month (siding with the mother's wishes) and he knows his son takes a little while to transition - so much of the visit might end up being spent helping his son adjust! How do you cope with all that? Do you have any suggestions?




Edited 12/27/2004 10:09 am ET ET by firstamendment

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iVillage Member
Registered: 12-03-2004
Mon, 12-06-2004 - 2:49pm

Wow there are a lot of similarities to my case. I was fortunate enough to get some specificity around what weekend I get each month and the dates and times for pick up and drop off. I'm baffled that he can't go to court to get things specified for what time he does have. I'm sure a lawyer is better but he should be able to petition for specifcs for what he does have without using a lawyer, so long as he fills out the proper forms.

I got a court date scheduled without a lawyer to get more specifics on phone calls because my ex was playing games, not returning phone calls and cutting me off. Can he talk to his son on the phone? When is the last time he saw his son? He's got to do everything he can to see and talk to him regularly because we know his ex will continue to poison the boy into believing his father is bad, doesn't care, and is better off without him. But if he sees with his own eyes that's not true he be strong enough to shake some of that off. My kids KNOW thier mom should pack clothes for them now and my 6 year old thinks its unfair to me. Also its a sad thing but when she does get clothes or toys, she never wants to take them home, she only wants to leave them with me because she knows she won't get to use it at home.

I stay in a hotel with my girls and I don't like it either but I don't have much of a choice. I stay in the same place every month and have become good friends with the staff who help me tremendously. I keep car seats, a back pack full of toys, diapers etc in storage at the hotel so I don't need to lug them out for every trip. There's a daily breakfast and the cook smiles, know's their names and what they like to eat. Is there any other place your bf can stay with his son? His friends or relatives? If he can't fly, he should drive or take the bus. Even if he just gets there and they read books, watch cartoons and play checkers in the hotel room, at least the boy is seeing his father. Regularity is important.

Tell him to look online and find parks and other places to play near where the boy lives. As much as I don't like MI, I know where all the local parks, movie theaters and kids museums are. Some of thos places have AAA or corporate discounts so maybe that helps. At $4-6 usually for admission I'm sure they can do at least one outing when he goes. Or they can go see a matinee movie. I've done Garfield, Sponge Bob, Incredibles etc and they had a great time.

In short tell him to NEVER give up because that's what his ex wants him to do. If have to hitch hike to get to MI, I'll do it because I'm not missing time with my girls. THAT's the most important thing. They look forward to seeing me and actually don't want to go back home. I hate visiting them on the road but I'd rather do that than not see them at all.

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