Should I Bargain for the kids?

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-03-2006
Should I Bargain for the kids?
20
Sun, 04-15-2007 - 8:11pm

Everyone I talk to, including our old marriage counselor thinks that stbx's fight for joint physical custody is all about child support and has nothing to do with the kids. His suggested arrangement which would have the kids sleeping at his house on week nights but I would still pick them up from school, do homework, music practice and run them to all their activities and then I'd have them on the weekend shows clearly that he has no intention of being an involved parent. But, he's going to fight for the kids to avoid child support.

I'm thinking I should just offer to waive child support in return for full custody of the kids and conditional visitation with the condition being NO drinking when he has the kids. I live in a county that defaults to 50/50 custody and I pretty much have to prove him unfit to get custody. Plus we have a father friendly judge. My worst case is he gets the kids half the time and their homework isn't done, they don't get to their activities and they aren't properly supervised just so he can avoid child support. My kids will pay if that happens.

His mom and brother have offered him a "blank check" to fight me for custody of the kids. His plan is to drag this out until I'm broke and have no choice but to give him the kids half the time so he can avoid child support. I'm thinking that I could spare myself a lot if I just waived child support now in exchange for full physical custody.

I figure I'm not going to see a cent anyway. If I can't prove him an alcoholic (he's cleaned up his act and is stalling on the testing so he'll probably pass) he's going to get joint physical anyway and I won't get a cent. My bills really don't go up if I have the kids 50% of the time or 75% of the time but if I have them 75% of the time, their needs get met.

Am I nuts for thinking of making this offer this early? I'm so afriad he'll win joint physical and then there is nothing to stop him from drinking around the kids. Once he's declared fit, he can do whatever he wants around the kids. Unfortunately, drinking around your kids is not a crime. IMO, regardless of him cleaning himself up now (money is a VERY STRONG motivator for him), it's only a matter of time before he's back to being the miserable drunk I know him to be.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 11-03-2006
Mon, 04-16-2007 - 6:30pm

"what strikes do you feel you have"

The first is that our county starts from 50/50 physical custody which stbx wants ONLY to avoid child support. That would end up with me spending my half of the time doing all the things that need to be done like homework, running to activities and baths while he sends the kids out to play. I'd like some time other than time I'm trying to get them doing homework, cleaning rooms, etc, etc, etc... BUT he WILL NOT pay child support. He'd take the kids first. Wouldn't do anything for them but he'd take them.

My second strike is we drew a pro father's rights judge. Short of proving stbx unfit, he'll get what he wants and probably child support from me to boot.

That makes my insistance stbx take the alcohol screening my third strike if he manages to clean himself up enough to pass and from what I've seen the last couple of times he's been here, he's making quite an effort. Amazing what he'll do for money. Wouldn't do it to save our marriage but put a dime on the line and then he can. (sorry, I digress but that really hurts. I mean nothing but avoiding child support means everything I guess. THat is a little hard to take.)

If he passes this test, then I look like the vindictive ex wife to a fathers rights advocate judge in a county that starts from joint physical as the preferred model. Only my kids lose if it's joint physical. They won't be supervised when with him, homework won't get done and they won't get to activities. It will still be me doing all that because I will make sure it gets done but the only chill time the kids will have will be with him.

He's got both his mother and brother (both multi millionaires) promising him a "blank check" to fight me. The plan is to drag this out in court so long I'm bankrupt and have no choice but to give him what he wants. That bugs me too since both of them have seen him drink and said something to him about how he treats me when he's drinking. I guess all that matters now is that he manages to not pay me a cent. That's the important thing you know. UGH.

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-03-2006
Mon, 04-16-2007 - 6:31pm
He won't. He's made it clear I'm expected to still do all the things I do now for the kids but he's ENTITLED to his kids half the time so he doesn't have to pay support.
iVillage Member
Registered: 11-03-2006
Mon, 04-16-2007 - 6:41pm

Status quo is what he wants. Joint physical so he doesn't have to pay child support. I can impute income to him (he has a drunks work schedule, goes in late, gets off early but accepts less pay to have it) but I still out earn him so I wouldn't get anything and that's what he wants. That's why I'm thinking of offering no child support if he'll give me physical custody and agree to no drinking around the kids. I think if he knows he doesn't have to pay, he'll give up time with the kids. Look at his original scheme. He planned on doing nothing other than providing a bed for them on school nights with weekends off to hit the bars.

If he hadn't moved 15 miles away, it wouldn't be that bad of a deal for me. I'd get to do all the things I do for my kids now and have every weekend with them. We'd just sleep under different roofs 5 nights a week. Unfortunately, he did move 15 miles away meaning I'd have to pick the kids up, drive 17 miles to my house, do homework, drive them to their activities, feed them and then drive them back towards the school 15 miles. Dd#1 says that if he gets his way she might as well say she lives in the car.

You are correct, he's gambling with the kids and counting on my not gambling with them but that one was a suckers bet. There's no way I ever would gamble with my kids. I figure he's going to make sure I don't get a cent anyhow so why not just give up the money up front. It's not like I was actually going to get it and maybe he'll give up time with the kids if he knows it's not going to cost him. Trust me, he doesn't want time with them to actually spend time with them. They'll grow up like weeds under his care like my ss's were before we got married. I always knew he was rather uninvoled with the kids but I always wanted to be the one who was involved so that really wasn't an issue in the marriage. I'd nag him about doing his half of the housework but I never nagged him about doing his half of the parenting. I enjoy parenting my kids too much.

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-03-2006
Mon, 04-16-2007 - 6:47pm

Child support has been calculated for him at $1350/month. Nearly half of his take home!!! He'll fight tooth and nail to avoid paying it. If he wins half custody, he gets out of the payment and I don't have enough time to do what I want with the kids. If I'm going to lose it anyway, why not offer it up in the hopes he'll admit that he really doesn't want the kids half the time. He just doesn't want to pay.

Fortunately, I'm an engineer. I make enough to support myself and my kids quite well. The only shortfall will be college becuase stbx doesn't think he should have to contribute to their college savings. He took the money his dad gave us for dd#1's college fund and used it as a down payment on the house, which was fine with his dad but now that his dad has passed away, stbx insists that it wasn't really for her college fund and we don't have to pay it back to her. That was just a SUGGESTION his dad made as to what to do with the money. Funny but he gave the same amount to every other grand child when they were born except dd#2. I have no idea why he chose to exclude her. She'll never know that though. I've been saving to make up for what grandpa didn't give her so she'll think she got what all the grandkids got.

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-03-2006
Mon, 04-16-2007 - 6:50pm

"but I do not want my children to be pawns in this collossal mess. " Ita!!!!

I too have a good job so I'll be fine without CS. I keep thinking about all the women who never see a dime even though it's ordered who are so much worse off than me. I'll be fine either way. I was planning on offering CS in return for keeping my 401K anyway. He doesn't need it as he's poised to inherit a small fortune when his 84 year old mother passes on.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-19-2003
Mon, 04-16-2007 - 10:37pm
Well, I think that he'll find out that what he's ENTITLED to is HALF the responsibility for his children.

Karen ~ wildlucky4me ~

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-03-2006
Tue, 04-17-2007 - 4:50am

Nice sentiment but how do you force someone to do their half when they don't think it needs to be done?

Case in point, he's tried, for years, to get me to go out after the kids go to bed claiming they're sleeping and don't need a sitter.

He does not believe parents should have to do homework with kids or be involved in the school. In his opinion, we pay the schools to educate our kids and they should do their job.

He doesn't think kids need to be in activities let alone be the parent running them to them. His participation is limited to strutting like a proud father when dd#2 plays publicly, as if he had anything to do with her talent.

He may be required to do half but he won't. It just won't get done when the kids are with him. I doubt the court is going to make him make the kids do their homework and practice the piano and drive them to activities.

We have some very serious differences of opinion as to what parents are required to do. I think kids should be supervised at all time and that it's important to know their friends and their friends families and what they're doing. STBX thinks you just tell them to be back before bedtime and don't worry about what they're doing because they're old enough to take care of themselves. This is how he was raised BUT he grew up on a farm. There was plenty of room to run and his only real playmates were his brothers and sister. It's totally different living in the city.

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-17-2001
Tue, 04-17-2007 - 10:45am

You ask great questions! Unfortunately for all of us with useless XHs, they're rhetorical.

You CAN'T make him step up and be a parent. Mine doesn't make 7 year old Gracie practice her violin if she says she doesn't want to. He doesn't make her take a bath if she doesn't want to. Who's the adult in that relationship????? Neither one. Lucky for me, Rosie is very self-motivated and understands that Grace must take a bath or she stinks, so she'll cajole Gracie into the shower with her most of the time.

Since Rosie is 12, I've let her stay alone twice this past week while I ran short errands. Unfortunately, she told her father who will probably think that this is a license to go out at night, leaving the girls alone for hours without, might I add, a landline PHONE because he thinks that his cell phone is enough.

While I know that kids learn as much from a bad example as a good one (and my Rosie is proff of that.... she now makes sure all her homework gets done afterschool with my parents or on my weekends because he can't be bothered helping her), it's hard to let go of things that are important! And everything you listed IS important!!!!!

I understand the other advice you got here about CS being for the kids and it's duty to pay it..... BUT... if he's going to neglect the kids or badmouth you because of it, or if he's going to fall months (or even years) behind in CS, is it worth it? I didn't think so 6 years ago when I moved out. I wanted as little stress as possible with my separation and future co-parenting. Was it worth it to me? Yes!

You do what's right for you and what you think is best for the kids.

~calla~  mom to rosie and gracie

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-19-2005
Tue, 04-17-2007 - 4:43pm

I can totally relate. You just need to do what is best for you and your children. My ex-husband has only agency supervised visitation with our son due to domestic violence against me as well as alchohol/drug issues (multiple DUIs etc). He is allowed up to 3 hours every weekend yet he only does 1 hour twice a month, if we are lucky. This has been our custody arrangment for over six years now. He of course claims poverty and that it's my fault he can't afford to do more visitation because he has to pay sooo much CS yet he owes me over 41K in CS arrears because he NEVER pays. His family also has a significant amount of money and has helped him fight me in court (luckily he never wins) and he even works for his father who helps him allude wage garnishments (working under the table), etc. Anyway, I gave up a long time ago trying to fight him and his family to do what is right for our son.

Luckily I have a good job to support my son's needs and he has other awesome male role models in his life (mainly my new husband) so I really don't think he is missing out too much. Of course in a perfect world, he would have two great involved parents that put their childs emotional, physical and financial needs at the top of their priority list. But sometimes you can't have the ideal and you do the best you can. I also had an abscent father and I know how difficult that can be, but I survived.

You sound like you really care for your children and just want what is best. Keep focusing on that and don't worry too much about the courts. I agree they aren't great, but in the end most things usually work out ok. Even if it feels like it's horrible right now, things will work out and you and your kids will be fine. The courts usually see through this kind of BS, eventually.

Good luck.

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-03-2006
Tue, 04-17-2007 - 9:16pm

It's worth it to me too. I'll gladly trade money for more time with my kids to make sure things get done. I figure if I don't agree to no child support, he'll just push for 50/50 and leave the kids being parented by an immature adult half the time. I'd rather be the parent and let him be the fun dad who comes by to visit.

That was the situation I grew up with and I'm glad. I lived with my responsible parent. I'm sure it bugged my mom that dad took us to all kinds of fun activities and never really parented us but was more of a buddy but that is something I now appreciate about mom now that I'm an adult. I just wish she'd lived long enough for me to tell her.

IMO, if trading money gets me the time to make sure my kids have what they need then so beit. It's not like I'd get the money anyway. He's prepared to fight tooth and nail for joint custody to avoid paying CS and that is a STRONG motivator for him.

For the first time in 5 years, I kid you not, he was stone sober at 2:00 pm on Sunday when he came over to visit the kids. He usually is into his 3rd beer by the time the kids and I get home from church!!!! Sober on Sunday is serious.

I told the kids if they get a sober dad out of this deal, it's a pretty good deal even if we don't live under the same roof.

Wish me luck. I have to talk stbx into appologizing to dd#1 for involving her in the planning phase of him moving out and keeping it a secret from me. Poor kid had to choose between betraying mom or betraying dad and instead of being able to talk to someone about what was transpiring, had to keep it inside. He, honestly, has no clue how badly he hurt her. He justifies his actions because I yell at her and send her to her room. He says ne NEEDED to offer her an out from my abuse. If I'm so abusive, how come he left her here with me???

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