Staying for the kids??

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-14-2005
Staying for the kids??
65
Wed, 01-10-2007 - 3:57pm

I just heard a good show yesterday on the debate about staying for the children. I can speak from experience when saying that I possibly left a relationship too soon when a child was involved. I had the thought of "never stay for the children" in my head, so it wasn't too hard of a decision, when I believe there's more too it than meets the eye & should've been. Obviously we all know that we should not tolerate abuse & that is definitely something the kids should have to go thru...however...aren't there a huge amount of marriages/relationships out there that involve children that end b/c someone wasn't "happy" or "in love" anymore?? The host basically said there are alot of "quitters" out there that thinks the grass is greener....when in fact, it is often not & could possibly be worse - one fact is that even if it's not worse, when children are involved, it is definitely going to be alot more complicated. When no children are involved, we can easily say, life is too short to be miserable & move on - but when children are involved, isn't it a responsibility to uphold their support system if at all possible...meaning, including when we simply don't feel like it anymore or are sick & tired of being sick & tired?? Hmmmm, just food for thought. Also - if this is true, does anyone have a possible age of when that responsibility should end, lol...18?? Of course seen many marriages that do end at that time - and know that parents divorcing would still affect them at that time, but obviously earlier ages would be more difficult. Any thoughts out there on this subject matter?

Laurel :)

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iVillage Member
Registered: 09-01-2006
Thu, 01-11-2007 - 2:32pm

(((((((hugs M))))))))))

I know that this whole thing is just not fair. Maybe you could appeal to H to not take all that he is legally entitled to by asking him if morally he feels that is right? Maybe he will concede to some degree.

I sent H an email last night and he hasn't repsonded, but I figure I can give him time to think before I request a response. If he chooses not to - then I know how he feels and I can feel confident that it is his choice and relieve myself of that burden. Truth be told we have so many issues to address that I am not confident that we can overcome them with a lifetime of counselling. But it is worth a try. I don't think he will go though.

The one thing I genuinely care about is custody and I will do whatever is necesssary to maintain primary custody. If he decides we need to proceed with the separation (officially as we already are separated) and not try counselling then that is the area that I will focus my efforts. H loves them - but he is a playmate more than a day to day parent.

Hang in there M - Life is just not fair but you will pull through this. Focus on your self a little - figure out what you want for your future and you might start to feel a little more control over the situation. Do you have a good lawyer? I made sure mine was a shark - I want her to be as focused as I am to ensure that primary custody will continue to be with me as it always has been since my girls were born.

I am keeping you in my prayers as well.....

Rose

Rosecolouredspecs
iVillage Member
Registered: 02-23-2006
Fri, 01-12-2007 - 7:59am

M-

thanks for your reply. i must disagree with you to an extent. we can read all the studies and finding about children of divorce until we are blue in the face. there are practically no studies on children who flourish after the d. everyones situation is different. i've been following your posts, and it appears that your h had decided to divorce. that is very difficult for the spouse who is left behind. i have tried to be very aware of my stbx's feeling throughout the beginning stages of this process, so that he will not feel left out, abandonded. you know what? its no longer my problem. i was his enabler.

Let me share this story with you. i've only ever shared it with one other person outside of my "parents home."

My father is/was and alcoholic. My mother has very bad depression. both are 73 years old. I LOVE MY PARENTS MORE THAN ANYTHING. HOWEVER, my father would get drunk, become violent and nasty to my mother. my mother was out for shock therapy, taking pills, and staying in bed, sometimes for days at a time. i have 2 brothers and a sister. (i am the third child.) He never hit us, but he would scream and yell, throw things, etc. my mom always seemed unbothered by it. BECAUSE she (as well as my dad) grew up in homes with alcoholic parents, THIS WAS NORMAL TO THEM. My older sister would get my younger brother and i ready for school, help with homework, then she left us at 18 and married a man who is verbally abusive. DO YOU KNOW WHY?? To get out of that house. So heres my story:

I was 17 and packing for college. It was a hot August day. My dad was drunk. We got into an arguement and i cannot recall what it was about, and that really doesn't matter. He was screaming at me and i at him. He picked up a kitchen table chair over his head and threw it at me as i was running for the front door. the chair hit the wall, put a hole in it, and broke. my stbx had just pulled up in front of our house as i was making my escape. i hopped in the car and said "drive, and i don't care where." he asked me to marry him, that he was tired of seeing me like this. i accepted, and married him a year and a half later. on my wedding day, i knew i made a terrible mistake. i would have accepted a marriage proposal from the devil himself. i had to get out, it was 17 years of living with a drunk with no support. 20 years later, you know what M? i was married to a drunk, one that could not hold a job, was drinking 18-30 cans of beer A DAY, all the money that he made which wasn't much went to booze. I COULDN'T PUT FOOD ON THE TABLE. I was taking zoloft (again) and using sleeping pills at night. I had an affair, because i had noone to hold me AS STBX WAS ALWAYS DRUNK ON THE COUCH. talk about mistake after mistake.

i decided that it was too much, he wouldn't stop drinking, couldn't find a job, i was on antidepressants. ENOUGH!! I am breaking the chain. i will not raise my children like this. i love my stbx, he is the father of my children, he is my friend, but the children need stability, otherwise they will grow up like me. I haven't read any of the books on "adult children of alcoholics" primarily because i have been in 40 years of denial. not any more.

sorry to go on and on and get off topic. its just that sometimes, it doesn't matter if you stay or go. its broken and cannot be fixed. i always wanted the white picket fence, a son and a daughter, a dog, and a HUSBAND WHO WASN'T DRUNK!!!!!!!!!!!!! i want my kids to have better. and maybe, just maybe by leaving my stbx he will hit rock bottom figure it out, get some help and come back to his family with a renewed outlook on life. (small detail: stbx's parents were drunks too, so were our grandparents, and god knows how many others.)

what
iVillage Member
Registered: 07-08-2004
Fri, 01-12-2007 - 8:38am

I think each person can only speak from their personal experience here. I am sure some people have bailed out of marriages too early, while many stayed for far to long. My parents remained married and still are. They are completely miserable together, and have been for as long as I can remember. The model of marriage they presented was EXTREMELY unhealthy. The house was filled with constant fighting, tension, accusations, and misery. You could feel the anger and resentment in the air every day. Now they are older, mired in alcoholism and mental illness that they refuse to get treatment for. They are both miserable and basically just defeated by life and their marriage. If they had divorced while we were children, I really believe they each would have gone on to lead happier and more productive lives. In their case, it would have broken the cycle of hostility and resentment.

Personally, I stayed in my marriage for far too long. Again, I felt I was doing it for my son. That is, until one night, I seriously considered suicide rather that stay in a marriage fraught with unhappiness, neglect, and emotional abuse. I realized at that moment divorce would be better for my son than a dead mother.

I really do feel each case must be looked at individually. I don't think the statistics take every contingency into consideration.

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-25-2006
Fri, 01-12-2007 - 8:49am
You ROCK! I am so proud of you for what you did. It is so huge.
iVillage Member
Registered: 06-25-2006
Fri, 01-12-2007 - 9:20am

I saw this post a while ago and resisted the urge to respond, but now I can't stop myself.

When I was 19 and just had my oldest daughter (and then married her father, my STBX, a year later), I was in college, her dad was an hour away in trade school, and I had no option but day care. I read with happiness some things by a leading psychologist (John Rosenwald, I think) who said that day care was fine and even good for kids. Then maybe 15 years later, he completely switched gears and said day care for kids was the spawn of satan. (OK, maybe not that strong, but you get the idea). Instead of being devastated as many people were, I was so ANGRY because, in my situation, he was so WONRG. Today, my 20-year old "day care" kid is an amazing, strong, independent, ambitious, loving, and compassionate young woman in a wonderful relationship. John R. was wrong in her case, but his overall conclusions were probably correct: Statistics are numbers; they guarantee nothing.

I grew up in an alcoholic home with two parents who were home all the time but were never "home". They fought all the time. I hated it. They are still together and miserable. I don't know if divorce would have been better, but I bet not because they would have fought and been miserable divorced people too. Statistically, I should be a complete mess, and an alcoholic myself, but I'm NOT. I embrace life, I adore my kids (two daughters, the older one and a 9-year old), I love my job, I have tons of friends. My biggest "problem" is that I am married to someone who I married to escape my yucky family life, my first boyfriend. Statistics are numbers; they guarantee nothing.

Statistics show trends but do not indicate certainties, truths, or doom. I am not denying that kids are affected by divorce. What I am saying is that since we know that kids are affected by divorce, as the statistics tell us, the ONLY thing that statistics tell us, then when it happens, we need to work that much harder at teaching our kids how to deal with it. I am pretty sure that does not happen in a lot of cases, hence, the gloomy statistics.

(By the way, statistically, if you believe in such things, I should have divorced a long time ago as we got married because of a pregnancy and I pursued a professional degree and he didn't, two black marks for marriages. Maybe someone knows the odds of our staying together in marriage for 18 years. I have always wanted to know).

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-19-2003
Fri, 01-12-2007 - 9:27am

I divorced when my children were 5 and 10.... I knew that if I was miserable and unhappy.... and their dad was miserable and unhappy.... "we" weren't being the best parents that we could be for our children.


We divorced... I'm happy... and EX is happy.


Karen ~ wildlucky4me ~

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-23-2006
Fri, 01-12-2007 - 9:37am

gene-

thank you. just for the record: i am heart broken, sad, angry, scared that my marriage is gone. i've lost friends (because they found out about my a). so i also feel alone. i have two kids looking to me to take care of them singlehandedly. it is such an awesome responsibility. noone told me it would be like this. i will raise my children to be self sufficient and strong.

on a different note: my parents stayed together. they've been married for 48 years. while my father has mellowed my mother is still very depressed. they worked through their problems. and i'm happy for them. i would hate to end up alone in my golden years because of divorce. unfortunately, the damage their marriage caused the 4 us will remain. sometimes i feel like "little girl lost." i hope my children don't feel this way ever, as it is a deep hurt unlike nothing anyone can imagine.

what
iVillage Member
Registered: 06-25-2006
Fri, 01-12-2007 - 10:37am

Hey, but you DO rock. Anything to break the cycle is so wonderful. (Read my other post in this discussion, #36, to see a snippet of my story). I am not an alcoholic like my dad (although I suspect that I would be excellent at it if I let myself) and my daughter that I had accidentally at age 19 is almost 20, in a good relationship, and, I am not a grandmother! ;) I broke TWO cycles. (Grrrrrrr....)

Anyway, hang in there. Stay positive. I think you are wonderful simply based on the fact that you did something so hard. It takes guts to do what you did, plain and simple.

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-28-2006
Fri, 01-12-2007 - 1:43pm

I am so sorry your childhood and marriage were so terribly hard. I, too, grew up in an alcoholic household. I am sure it will be better for you and your children to be out of an alcoholic household. For some children divorce will bring hope of a healthier, happier home life and future. Sounds like that is what you will have.

My current situation is not yours; my children's home life is good, happy and my h and I co-parent well together. Divorce will reduce the quality of their lives in many ways. In my case I have a spouse who doesn't want to work at his marriage or the related responsibilities.

I wish you strength and courage.

M

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-28-2006
Fri, 01-12-2007 - 4:02pm

Well said, Karen.

I commend you on your courage and your determination to care for your kids through the divorce process and aftermath. Thanks, too, for your leadership here. This is a very powerfully helpful board!

What you say can be true and, for my family, I hope it will be true, but I am full of fear and concern.

For one because it really isn't that bad (from my perspective) and the kids are happy and flourishing and for another because I know they will be crushed by their dad's leaving (they ADORE him) and because I don't trust him on at least two fronts (hoping we can unbury whatever secrets he is hiding so I can know my kids will be ok with him) and finally, because economically this is going from barely middle class (we live in a very expensive area) to possible qualifying for food stamps for me and the kids (I have been a sahm for the last 6 1/2 years).

That said, my brother commented at Xmas that "You and h are both really nice people when you aren't interacting with ea. other. And you both are really good with the kids."

So maybe it will be better, but I would rather have worked on the marriage and saved my kids from this h*&^ll they will go through.

Thanks for being a beacon of hope.

M

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