Black - but Still interracial conflict

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-23-2004
Black - but Still interracial conflict
3
Fri, 08-20-2004 - 3:47pm
Hey everyone,

I am black, African American, but dating an African from Kenya. As much as we love eachother, our cultural difference really have a way getting between us, some times to the point where I have contemplated breaking up with him completely.

We are both attorneys, and run very successful law practices. I practice on the east coast, and he practices on the west coast. We live in separate states and all of that, but by using the company the jet, and of course, the internet, our relationship is as if, we are neighbors.

Here is the thing, we get along so well, then, his chauvinistic, obsessive, jealous, "ok for a woman" condescending side will come out. When this happens, I get so angry!! After all, I fight with chauvinistic men all day long, and the last thing I want is my so called partner, putting me down too, when I "come home" to relax.

I know he does not mean anything by his condescending remarks. But deep down, I can not help but to be hurt by it. Women are not second class citizens, regardless of his upbringing. In fact, I am 15 years his junior, and he has made comments as to how I accomplished in six months, what it took him 10 years. And in day to day practical business knowledge, obviously I am more astute, and he is constantly looking for my advice and guidance, on how to do things. But then, the put down.

When I take a sabbitacal, and disappear because I am angry with him, and when I try to explain how his words hurt me, ( only for him to call me being too sensitive, or whatever, and blowing me off and laughing) he starts badgering me, with voice and emails, accusing me of abandoning him, and this and that. "Where are you??" "Why are you slowing down your love for me??"

I just respond with, "I am giving us a cooling off period" And again, he accuses me of complaining of pittly stuff, pittly stuff meaning, his condescending attitude and remarks toward me.

But the stuff is not small, by any means. And I tell him, " you see? You complain about being alone, but then at times, you act like a such a jerk, (at least to me) how could it be any other way???

I keep blaming our cultural differences. I was warned that African men, are very controlling and chauvinistic. But at the same time. I do care, I do miss him, we do have fun together, we have so much in common, he is such an integral part of my life, and I do not quite want to throw everything away. What we have is special, and we both agree, that we are one in a million at least to eachother.

But I can not deny the amount of pain I feel as well.

What do you think?? How do two opposing clashing cultures come together?? He is attracted to me being a strong, and independent woman, but then, he berates me for it at the same time. What gives?

Avatar for lucy4980
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Fri, 08-20-2004 - 4:51pm
I have run into cultural differences such as this in relationships too. I think that some cultural differences result in values that are so different that it's hard to find common ground. It's not necesarily that either person's values are better or worse, just different.

I dated a man from Mexico awhile back, and the dynamic was very similar to what you described. He seemed to be attracted to my independence, but at the same time he seemed to have a problem with it. It's like he wanted me to be able to make my own way in the world, be successful in school (I was studying to be an engineer), and totally kick butt. At the same time, when we were together, he wanted me to defer to him. Like independence was some sort of coat that I could just remove when I walked into his house. Yeah, sure. I am an independent person. I always have been and that's just the way it is. I realized that our values and expectations were just too different and we weren't compatible.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Fri, 08-20-2004 - 5:32pm
Does it really matter that his attitudes toward women are culturally based? I mean does it really make any difference how he or you justiy his putting you down? Doesn't it matter more that you figure out whether or not you should stay with a man who causes you emotional pain and anger on a regular basis?

Some people can overcome upbringings that teach the belief that superficial attributes such as race or gender bestow inherent superiority of one demographic population over another. But many can't overcome it because they reside in a supporting culture, or like your guy, they never question the validity of their belief system. They feel comfortable and righteous in their supremacy, and they like the sense of entitlement it brings. When any person belonging to the perceived "second class" category, does or says something that challenges the supremist's comfort zone, or steps over the boundary of what they consider acceptable behavior, or dares to slip out of their "assigned role" in the world, the supremist quickly takes action to restore the order of things as they deem appropriate. That means they'll degrade, demoralize, and diminish to re-establish their sense of themselves as the master over the slave in the worst case scenario, or simply the higher one over the lower one in the best case scenario.

It seems your BF's supremist leanings are constantly being challenged in your relationship. When you provide advice and guidance, and clearly show that you have more knowledge in some areas than he, he is faced with incontrovertible evidence that you are his equal and perhaps his better in some areas. That seriously upsets his world view, and so he feels compelled to push you back down "where you belong".

What can you do about this? Well, you can't make him change and he won't change himself unless he sees that his attitude is wrong and harmful, unless he can learn to base his self-worth on his accomplishments, and good deeds and not on the fact that he was born male. Do you think he can ever come to these realizations about himself and work to change his attitudes? If you don't think so, and you want to stay with him without constantly being hurt, then do the following: 1) Never offer him advice, or guidance and tell him you don't know should he ask. 2) Never object to his chauvinistic remarks. Say nothing. 3) Be ever alert not to inadvertently "show him up".

That course of action doesn't sound at all appealing to you, does it? But you only have a few choices. You can stay with him and go on as you always have and accept that you will suffer, you can stay and to your best to avert the situations that precede the ugly behavior, you can insist on counseling if he claims a sincere desire and effort to change when you tell him it's over, or you can cut your losses and leave. You're the only one who knows the best and most viable solution for you.

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-23-2004
Sat, 08-21-2004 - 5:23pm
Oh my gosh, you are so correct.

When I disappeared for a little bit, and he flipped out, he accused ME of not working on it.

I think counceling is out of the question. He can not even recognize what he is doing, it so ingrained.

With that being that case, I am not ready to cut things off completely, but given the distance, it will be easy to taper off.

I really do not see a future with him, at least as my life partner. There is no way I could raise a family with someone that has this kind of mentality.

Funny, because I pointed out to him, how people treat him, and how he does not like it, (ie, when someone actually meets him, and they see he is black, or foreign, and obviously based on appearances, he does not get the account from that client. True, their lost, and their stupidity. But still, it hurts, and it is frustrating. So I told him, this is how I feel you treat me sometimes, except it is worse. It is coming from a man that supposedly loves me, and when I come home to our "safe place" I am being treated like that.

I told him this in writing. It is always harder for him to be as derisive, and to cut me off. and he also responds more seriously to my letters.

But MY mind is pretty much made up. People usually do not change, and in this case, he has no idea what the problem is.

I admire and appreciate your response.