Confusion abounds & advice is needed!

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-03-2003
Confusion abounds & advice is needed!
9
Mon, 03-01-2004 - 8:18am
I have been dating a guy for about 2 years now. Things are not always "rosy," but there are wonderful, comfortable times that make the balance swing to the good column. We are compatible in some ways and very different in others. Because we handle emotional things differently this has caused us to appreciate the other person for their "uniqueness," but lately I feel like it's also tearing us apart.

In a discussion with a mentor of mine I described my mate as a wonderful person with a great heart and a strong sense of being a committed, stable provider. He is very romantic and hard-working. And I find him to be incredibly sexy as well. But he can be moody, making little comments about how I make things "difficult" or how he doesn't like the way I do something. Lately, I've been making little "hints" about our future together (one wonders these things after 2 years)...such as saying "won't it be fun when we're two wrinkly-butted grammies and grampies doing this..." or "I would love to travel to all these places together." And even (perhaps against my better judgement) bringing up that one of my old college friends recently became engaged and her ring sounded just like the one I'd like to someday have. This has caused a torrent of dissention between us now. He is a guy who lives "for the present" and may think about marriage, but is never interested in detail. And that's OK....But, I feel like we can't talk about the future at all. (or anything that makes him feel uncomfortable) Women are prone to dreaming and I told him that my flipant comments are just that. Fun little dreams that would be nice to come true, but that I don't take too seriously. I don't take myself too seriously, but I do take our relationship seriously. And this is a legitimate concern that has snowballed into conversations such as "it annoys me when you make decisions more complicated than they need to be" or "why do you feel the need to be so touchy-feely all the time?" (he has never complained before about my affectionate expressions---in fact, has gotten angry when I haven't been affectionate enough). Normally I am the peace-maker and the calm person of action during conflict. But last night I lost it and piped out "Maybe if there are all these things 'wrong' with me, maybe you don't feel like seeing me for awhile." and followed that up with an even stronger blow "Maybe you don't love me anymore." (which I know is not necessarily the truth and I am now wishing it hadn't popped out) What can be said?? People say stupid things when they are angry.

Can a relationship work with two different-minded people? What can I do when I feel like he's constantly critiquing who I am? And if he does love me (which sometimes he has a hard time expressing)---why does it feel like he's trying to change me? Can anybody tell me what's going on? Thank you for any comments/suggestions....
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 03-01-2004 - 9:13am
The question is not...why is he living in the present, not planning for afuture, letting "whatever will be...just be".

The question is....if that isn't your style, why are you staying with a partner and in a situation where your needs are not met and your goals not achieved?

It's not up to him to change and be the man you think he should be and that you want him to be - so that you get what you need. It's your obligation to you to affiliate with people that prioritize and value waht you do - so that you don't have to "change them"

Erin

quickblade14@hotmail.com

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-20-2003
Mon, 03-01-2004 - 11:42am
Didn't you post here a few months ago regarding the same thing? It seems like he is avoiding the marriage topic and may not be wanting the same things that you are. You don't need to skirt around the issue. You want to know if he wants to get married and after two years you have every right to have a heart- to- heart about marriage. You don't need to excuse it as a 'fun little dream, not to be taken seriously'

"he's constantly critiquing who I am? And if he does love me (which sometimes he has a hard time expressing)---why does it feel like he's trying to change me?"

These seem like some serious issues. Can you live like this in the long term?

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-03-2003
Mon, 03-01-2004 - 12:01pm
Ciao Gina---You are right. I did post about practically the same thing a few months ago. (Funny how life is so cyclical) It's so aggravating when you give your all, you are yourself and you feel that you should be able to talk to your mate about everything. In this case, I can't. He will make references on occasion about the future (I can't wait to wake up to you every morning, yada yada)---but it becomes taboo when I approach it.

Now I have read the book, "The Rules" and some of his behavior is matching up with someone who is slowly turning 'uninterested.' Yet, he still leaves love notes and spontaneously does my dishes. This Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde routine is becoming exhausting. I love this person, but I do not love the rollercoaster attached! I seek to be an accepting, participative mate, but right now I feel like it's ALL about "making him happy." (even though being my happy self doesn't seem to do the trick). I have a steady job that requires one to request vacation time a few weeks in advance. I feel like I need to get away to clear my head and create space/time for him to evaluate whether we are a good match. With us living in the same town, it's not like I can just pretend I'm not home. And with no random vacation possible, it's not likely I can say "Just going to Florida for the week for some R&R" ---- Do you have any suggestions about this situation? Thank you!
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 03-01-2004 - 12:11pm
There is no Jekyl/Hyde routine in play.

Notice something - whatever he wants or wants to do - do youo have to beg, nag, coerce, or placate in or to get him to do pursue or participate - no, you don't.

And notice that whatever he doesn't want to do - he doesn't pursue or participate in.

What he does want is quite evident in his actions.

Where YOU are using some dysfunctional reasoning/associations is in the washing of the dishes, for example.

Here's you going "oh, he washed hte dishes and straightened up the house because he loves me so much and he wants to make my life easier."

The reality is more like "it wasn't any hassle to do the dishes and straighten up the house this one time becuase it keeps the broad off my back about commitment for at least 3 months while she basks in my 'Love' for her as evidenced by this nothing action, and I get great sex and no hassle as a reuslt of a little housework."

Erin

quickblade14@hotmail.com

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-03-2003
Mon, 03-01-2004 - 12:28pm
OUCH! While I will agree that he does not do anything he doesn't feel like doing, he is also is a man with spell-it-out plain motives. He does not "do the dishes" as a way to get tail (it's given freely regardless)-- he does them as a sign of respect and care. (and has straight-forwardly said so). We like doing things for each other---not as a means to 'purchase' the other, but just a simple sign of care and looking out for one another.

The relationship and predicament I'm in are far from perfect---but to type-cast males as motivated to do 'nice things' only for favors (or to get their "broads off their backs") doesn't give them credit for being the truthful and compassionate we all know/wish they could be.
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 03-01-2004 - 12:44pm
But, he easily may do the dishes or clean up because he "respects the relationship".

But that does not mean he wants more than what there is in terms of commitment.

If you can step back - you'll see it objectively.

Peopl do what they do because they want to do it. Their values and priorities justify and entitle their actions, feelings, thoughts, decisions, words, ideas, and desires. Those same values determine character, conscience, integrity and honor in every regard and venue.

So at all times, people are doing what they want to do, what their values justify them doing, what their reasoning says to do - to get the specific results they wanted.

I believe you've got some incorrect "associations". Some people believe that once you meet the mother nad dad - that means "he/she is more serious about me"....and so if you run with that assumptive association - and 6 months into the dating you meet his parents, you're going to assume your association is correct. That he must be "serious".

If it's never discussed, and if that discussion doesn't result in later actions that match the words.....then what you have is projected assumption associations that you're using as facts...which are often incorrect.

I know many people that would live with someone else indefinitely, they'd share expenses and chores, and have no desire to commit whatsoever. They'd be "as committed as they would be without paper" - as they would with a license and rings. And what they're NOT wanting - becuase it interferes with their emotional issues - and will not do is "get legally liable". They won't do it. they're just as committed to you as if you were married, they're not ever going to do something outside of their values justifications...but they are NOT going to get legally hitched and liable for and to you.

And lots of people that really "value marriage" waste YEARS with someone who doesn't "value marriage as an institution". And they read into actions and decisions and words some projected, assumption associations - and they take those forward as "facts" and act on them. And suddenly, the person who wants marriage is as committed, involved, intertwined, and has made sacrifices and choices as if "commitment/marriage" were going ot result. They wouldn't have done x or y had they thought marriage wasn't on the other person's agenda.

And they confront that person....after some period of time where projected assumptions and associations have been subjected for "facts". The person they're confronting is genuinely confused...they never discussed marriage as an institution, or they never willingly agreed to it except in very general "possibilities, maybe, someday, whenever, whatever"...they've never known that you were giving up, or doing "X" because you thought marriage was a guaranteed certainty and that you'd have never done "X" if you had thought otherwise.

That relationship is now in a quandary....because the person "giving to get" (the person who did or gave or gave up "X" thinking marriage was a certainty) is not living in the moment. They've been in the moment but working for the future. And the other person has been taking what is offered, giving what their values say is right, they've been living only in the moment, and strictly for the moment - with no projection or assumption or association of th eother person's actions nad what it meant in terms of "a future".

The person who's been giving to get, that is confronting the one "living in the moment" now wanting guarantees, and timeframes about this commitment.....has the other person emotionally and perhaps financially against the wall.

One person has been "getting this much involved and intertwined" in order to secure a commitment...and the other person has gotten this much involved and intertwined thinking their level of commitment was sufficient.

Now both people stand to "lose' in every conceivable way - and someone must "concede" because no compromise is possible.

I don't thinkn he wants to marry - that doesn't mean he doesn't love you, or is not committed to you - but if he wanted to marry he wouldn't be adverse to discussing it - either at your instigation or his own.

So now the ball is back with you, if you've discussed it with him and you're assured that you've communicated your needs and expectations, adn taht you've heard his statements regarding his needs and expectations...if like it is, is good neough for him and not for you - it's not up to him to change. It's up to you to leave and find someone who does want what you want.....because staying isnot going to ensure that he wants what you want...although staying indefinitely trying to make you investment pay out will certainly make you resent him and drastically alter your future and options.

Erin

quickblade14@hotmail.com

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-28-2004
Mon, 03-01-2004 - 4:31pm
Are we saying that when a woman feels the longing for more and does not get it, she should simply move onto the next guy.It seems the same story to me.

Woman wants boyfriend --gets boyfriend (easy bit)

Woman wants to live with b/f -- gets that (mayby)

Woman wants to marry b/f -- gets that-- happy ever after (not that often)

Woman wants to marry b/f -- doen not get that -- so dump him!.

Woman marries guy that wants to get married straight away -- she dumps him! (anyway)

So why not at least be with someone you think you want to be and SEE what happens, It never goes on forever.

Sorry to sound so synical, but the replies for most problems amaze me.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 03-01-2004 - 5:06pm
I don't think that's the answer....but if you look at pervasive dynamic - you'll see that people do what they do becuase they want to do it. Their values and priorities justify and entitle their actions, feelings, thoughts, words, ideas, desires. and decisions. Those same values determine character, conscience, integrity and honor in every regard and venue.

I think most men "go with the flow"- men are not looking at every date as a potential life partner. They're seeking fun, sex - if mutually agreed to, companionship, conversation, someone to share ideas and interests with.....and either they are or are NOT ready for "a relationship of commitment and longevity."

The problem for women is - they often do look at every date as potential Mr. Right, and they're thinkning that if they can get him to 'commit' to the present - the fun, sex, dating, companionship, and sharing of interests and ideas...they can get him to commit to the future eventually.

that's untrue. If a person doesn't value commitment - they won't involve themselves in it. At least not in conventional terms as in considering your wants and needs and meeting them appropriate.

So, lots of girls are fun, attractive, witty, charming and sexy and can get "a boyfriend". That is a guy who is not at this time interested in "commitment" in terms of the future. Right now, his life is transitional and he's not willing to choose a partner based on lifetime needs -h e's willing to commit to being "in the here and now" with a person who shares his definition of fun, sex, companionship, and some of his interests. Boyfriends are committed to the "exclusivity" (physical) phase, because usually withuot committing to it - they can't get it. And they're also looking at this girl and thinking - she's fun, smart, witty, sexy, attractive, interesting, adorable - I can commit to right now without a problem. And depending on the age and life stage - "committing ot right now" - might mean 1-5 years!!

Usually the biggest mistake the woman makes is she starts "planning her future" around this commitment. She doesn't take study abroad - because it'll take her away from him and so she misses out on that life experience. she doesn't go to grad school across the country at a more prestigous university where she'd be better professionally served later by doing so - becuase it'll take her away from him. So everything that she's doing that is major - is sacrificing now to get to the future.

While the guy is doing nothing in terms of sacrificing now to get to a future - becuase he's not "thinking about the future" - he's going with the flow. He's committed to her right now...but he's not sure where his life is headed and so he can't commit for eternity to her oranything else.

At some point...women who've put off or eliminated options in their lives as a result of "their commitment to him" - start to want a ring. And while he was aware that she diddn't do study abroad or go to Purdue....he didn't realize she did it 'becuase of the commitment to him'. HE was letting her decide, and her take responsiblity for the going or not going. She's starting with "I've give, sacrificed, tolerated, endure, compromised my future for "us"...and he's going "what us?" There's us in the here and now, tehre's us right now...but there is no "great future" that we've been planning, I don't even know what I want in life yet - how can I know if you're who I want to spend it with.

And women get hurt, doing that.

So really, women ought to date more like men....it'd level the playing field. Women have to know going in what they want...and if they're dating to find a partner for a lifetime vs. a partner for the moment - in a few months they're going to know based on conversations even during infatuation - if this guy knows where his life is headed, and if a partner is what he wants. If not -s he needs to move on....and until she gets a ring on her finger, by always remaining true to herself, and realizing she can't change what someone wants other than herself...she's likely not to hav compromised her options, potential or future much if at all....while "waiting to get a commitment".

Which is why when men commit - they commit without resentment or unrealistic expectation. They didn't "give up" anything to get this commitment - they're "getting a great thing in this commmitment" - they view it as the glass half full and getting fuller.

Women often view getting the commitment as the glass half empty and somebody, namely him, better start sacrificing, compromising, and enduring or else it won't fill up - and they won't be happy with him if that doesn't happen.

Erin

quickblade14@hotmail.com

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-20-2003
Mon, 03-01-2004 - 7:06pm
" I did post about practically the same thing a few months ago. (Funny how life is so cyclical)"

Is this really cyclical or is he still vague about the future and feels the same as he did 6 months ago (doesn't want to get married). Will you be back here in 6 months asking the same thing and frustrated that the two of you want different things in the relationship?


'He will make references on occasion about the future (I can't wait to wake up to you every morning, yada yada)'

Do you ask him what he means by this? Can you take the opportunity to bring up the future then?

' it's not likely I can say "Just going to Florida for the week for some R&R"

Why not? Why not go on a vacation by yourself or with a girlfriend?