Don't know what to do- extremely long!

Visitor (not verified)
anonymous user
Registered: 12-31-1969
Don't know what to do- extremely long!
5
Wed, 08-18-2004 - 3:28pm
Hi,

I have a very complicated problem and I am sorry but this is a long one, I'm not even sure where to start. My first boyfriend from 26 years ago and I have remained friends over the years. We were together for 3 years and he married the woman that he started seeing after me. I got married about a year later. After he married we did not stay in contact for 13 years. But then I got back in touch and we have kept in touch ever since. His wife left him after 10 years and they had a son together. He was devastated. I don't think he was really in love with her, when she saw me with him recently she said that she finally understood what was wrong with her marriage. She didn't think he ever got over me. But never the less it really hurt him when she left and he was (& I think still is) angry. After she moved out he was fairly desperate not to be alone and moved in a woman within a few weeks. When I first spoke to him after all this he said that it was totally a financial solution, he didn't want to lose his house and couldn't afford it on his own. After a few conversations, I realized that it wasn't just a financial relationship and they were together. But the more he described the relationship you could tell there were problems. He explained to me that they fought, but when I said to him that all relationships have problems and that fighting was a way to work things out, he said not this kind of fighting. Over the years we would touch base once or twice a year, but then about 2 years ago, when my marriage was on it's last leg, he came back into my life in a much bigger way. After my husband moved out, he started talking about us getting back together again (did I mention we live about 1200 miles apart?). He had been trying to end it with this woman and felt it would be any time that she would be gone. Since we go back aways I was able to confirm everything he had been telling me with his family and friends. They were very excited that we had been talking about getting back together. Af first he did not tell her about me, they had so many problems and she was already looking for another place to live. I discovered that she is really abusive both verbally and physically. Once when they were fighting, he had his mother on the phone and he put the phone down and let her listen. His mother couldn't believe it. She was both abusive to my friend and to his son. The foul things that came out of her mouth I can't even repeat. My friends mom even called the girlfriends dad and told him she wanted her out of her son's house but he refused to get involved. She hits him, scratches him and even bites him. His son, 17, she wasn't physical with but boy the verbal things she says to him were way over the top. They finally agreed on when she would move out. At that point I guess she started to wonder about this long distance phone number that was showing up on the bill and called me. She told me that I needed to disappear out of his life and then decided not to move out. The son was devastated, he told me that his dad didn't have the balls to get her out. Did I also mention that he has full custody of his son, but his son hasn't been able to live there because of this woman. He was staying with his mother and my friend made excuses that it was much closer to his schools, etc. Now his mother has kicked him out so he is staying with friends.

That was over a year ago. In the past year, he told her that he wasn't interested in working their relationship out and that he wanted to marry me. Now anytime that she sees my phone number on the phone bill she calls me. And should I say not to talk. The first time I tried to get her to talk to me rather than just yell. She asked me if I wanted to marry him, I told her yes, then she started going off on how I hadn't had to live with him day in and day out. That I didn't have to put up with his loser ass, his loser son, drug addicted ex-wife and loser family. So I asked her why she stayed, she said she had put to much time, sweat and money into that house and she wasn't leaving. But did say I could have him. Then she started yelling at me loud enough for him to hear her and he came in and got her off. At one point I had to call the police and they suggested I have an officer call her and tell her she can't continue to call or I would press charges. She would do things like call me 5 times in a row in the middle of the night. Another thing I should mention is that the police have been called to the house many times by neighbors. Once his son and I were on the phone and he was explaining to me what was going on and he asked me if he should call the police, which he did. The house if very violent. My friend now says he doesn't want me involved any more with his problems. He says he had really hoped things had worked out for us and he was sorry he let me down. He is really embarrassed and has pushed everyone away from him. He is depressed and is drinking. I use to believe that if he really wanted her out, he could take legal action and get her out. But for whatever reason he doesn't.

I did find out that when he first told her he wanted to marry me, she said the same thing to him as she did to me which was "she hasn't had to live with you day in and day out, you're a loser and she will leave you just like ...." his wife. He now tells his friends that I am better off without him. He has alway's been afraid that I would leave him, in fact that was what happened when we were together when we were young.

To complicate things more, I have always suspected that he might be bi-polar. His mood swings are just off the charts and you never know what mood he is in, which is now compounded by the drinking. His sister told me that they know that he goes through major depressions, but never really put it together with bi-polar because he doesn't really get maniac. But boy is he charming when he is up. Even in one of his girlfriends calls she again told me that I wouldn't want him, all he does is work then come home drink and pass out on the couch. His family thinks he should sell the house and move here with me. But I know that scares him half to death. Move away from where he has lived for 52 years, away from family and friends and have enough faith in me that I won't leave him. He is too frightened. And unfortunately I did something a bit stupid the last time I was with him. I was in his area with my older daughter looking at colleges and he really wanted to meet her so we went out to dinner. I had a little too much to drink and we took my daughter back to where we were staying and he and I went back out. We got a room and made love. When I woke up in the middle of the night he was holding me, but I freaked out. I guess I didn't want to say goodbye to him again, so I got up, got dressed and started to leave. When he woke up he says I said that I couldn't do this anymore. He got up, got dressed too and then beat me out the door. I chased him in the parking lot and he finally stopped, turned around and said "do you ever want to see me again?" I said "of course". Then he left. He called me 10 days later saying he was devastated. He didn't want to lose me. I told him he didn't have any room in his life for me. He asked me to bare with him. But then right after that call, she called me and started her thing again and I didn't hear from him after that. I wrote him a letter, telling him that what we had was special and hoped he would forgive me for that night. At first he didn't contact me, then I tried to contact him and he told me "he didn't know what he could do for me". That was pretty harsh and I took it that he didn't want to have anything more to do with me, but then he called and apologized for everything, but again, he didn't want to involve me in his problems. I tried to tell him that that was my choice, but it didn't help. I tried to lighten up things and sent him a few clever gifts for his birthday that I knew would put a smile on his face. He called and thanked me, then went on again about all the problems he was having with his son. Go figure, the son is acting up and getting into tons of trouble. I wonder why? Every time we have spoken he always brings up the last time he saw me I was running away from him saying I can't do this anymore. I have tried to explain this, but I think it showed him that I could leave him.

I guess at this point we are over and he says he wants to remain friends,and I suppose I could let it go at that. But there is something in me that says I need to go back home and try to talk to him face to face one last time. But it scares me. When he turns off, he turns off and I don't want to leave things in a bad place again. But I don't know what to do to help him. I don't know what to do at all. Part of me can't comprehend why he would stay in this situation unless he really did love her. His sister told me that she didn't know why he can't get rid of her either, but she knows her brother well enough that it isn't love.

Help!

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-04-2003
Wed, 08-18-2004 - 3:42pm
I don't know where to start. I could hardly get through your entire post because part of the problem is so obvious. Learning to separate OUR problems, from HIS problem vs. YOUR problems. First, when she calls you, by all means you should protect yourself, file restraining orders, etc. HOWEVER, the rest of her behavior is HIS problem. You can't save him, help him, take action for him. What you are finding out is that just like his son says he doesn't have the balls. What makes you think you could have any successful, healthy relationship with this man?

His choice to stay in the relationship has nothing to do with love. My guess is that it has to do with the pattern of being in an abusive relationship, low self-esteem, depression (or bi-polar) and again, you can't save him.

::When he turns off, he turns off and I don't want to leave things in a bad place again.

Why? He doesn't care. This about you not wanting to be seen as the bad guy, or you still wanting him to like you or approve of you or something.

I hope you figure this out for you.


Carrie

Visitor (not verified)
anonymous user
Wed, 08-18-2004 - 10:49pm
Yes, thanks for stating the obvious. This isn't about us being together, that is really not the issue. This is my oldest friend, we have been through hell and high water together. No, I can't save him, but my definition of friendship is being there for someone when times are hard. Does he care right now? He tries not to show it but I know he does. He is a male in an abusive relationship, imagine what that does to a guy's self worth! I have had a couple of girlfriends in abusive relationships, they were so embarrassed. They thought they must be stupid if they had gotten themselves into the kind of mess they found themselves in. But they were women. They had places to go to talk about it. He has no one. His family has given up. They have told me that they think she needs to move out at all costs. They are tired of saying it. But not one of them ever thought to tell him he can do better than that. That he is worth more than this. He has told me that they have all abandoned him. From his dad's standpoint, he has no idea what he did wrong? His son hasn't talked to him in 3 years. His sister wants to ring his neck. And his mother is fed up. They do all think this should be a no brainer, she needs to move out. But it just isn't that easy for him. She is frightening, I've just been on the other end of the phone and hung up the phone shaking. And as long as I have known him he has had abandonment issues. He is so afraid of being left, he leaves. She won't leave, so I guess that says something to him.

So the question is how to intervine and help break the cycle. So far my approach has been to be here if he needs me, but not to be very assertive. I have only picked up the phone to check in with him a few times in the past 4 months. I just wait for him to call. But that seems to have just reinforced the "I'm not worth it" attitude. He's now even more depressed. Do I dig in my heals and keep trying to show him he's worth it.

I keep trying to think of what I would do if this was one of my girlfriends. I wouldn't just walk away.

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-14-2004
Wed, 08-18-2004 - 11:01pm
I hate to say this but you are causing part of thier problem. You are making this relationship into a triangle by calling him and becoming involved. She was all ready to leave him until she saw the hundreds of dollars of phone bills from you two. He was carrying on an emotional affair with you while he lived with her and probably told her he loved her.

If you just stayed out of it until he was truly over her and she was out of his life, maybe then things could work out. You are the third part of the triangle.

He is doing exactly what he wants to do. As long as he has her to abuse him and then you to talk to as a friend to fill his emotional needs, he feels happy and does not want to make any changes. But if you quit being his friend, he might miss you and change and kick her out.

I would stay far far away from that situation, never call him nor e-mail him nor have any contact with him because you are unwittingly causing everything to be worse.

And if his character is so weak he cannot lock his door against an abusive woman than you don't need him either.

Visitor (not verified)
anonymous user
Thu, 08-19-2004 - 12:20pm
To a certain extent I agree. I have only called him once in the past 5 months and he hasn't been calling me much at all. I told him in April that there wasn't any room in his life for me and that when he got this whole mess worked out to call me. He has respected that and only called a few times. I think we both did the right thing. But here is the problem and I am a typical Libra and need to weigh out everything and I guess I go back and forth that I am doing the right thing by not fighting a bit more and getting in his face. He is staying away because he doesn't want to subject me to his problems. He believed she would move out. When he first started talking to me about us getting back together, I told him we could discuss that when she moved out. I did check with his friends and family to confirm the story that it had been over for years and that they were sleeping in seperate rooms. They all said, she was moving out. Whoops got off the subject - Here is where we are now. I am staying away, he is drinking and has alienated everyone. One of his best friends said to me that if this was anyone but him, he wouldn't be worried. He said that I was his life line and with me walking away, he lost the only thing he was living for. Yes, you would think his son would be incentive, but apparently he thinks he is a lousy father (which he is)and his son is also better off without him. He thinks he is a "loser" and that I am better off without him.

Yes, he is very weak. He didn't use to be. And that makes me very sad. He use to be full of life. Lots and lots of therapy is in order. Again, if this was a woman would you say "if his character is so weak he cannot lock his door against an abusive woman than you don't need him either". I don't need him, but he is still my friend. What kind of a friend walks away?

On a side note, anytime she has called to yell, it's never to say that they are trying to work things out. She has never said anything that says I love him. It's always been about a loss of control. She had the phone put into her name alone and now it's "her phone" not his. He isn't allowed to call me anymore. He isn't calling often, but he still calls from that phone and doesn't use his cell. It's his passive agressive way of saying I'll do what I want.

I guess I just wonder if I was a bit stronger and basicly did the Moonstruck "snap out of it" slap, he might just wake up. Obviously, that's figuritive.

I think that I have done the right thing by walking away, but that really seems to have backfired and am wondering if I was wrong. If there is something else I should have done. I feel totally helpless that I am not strong enough or smart enough or not enough of something to help. I know I can't save him, he has to do that for himself. But it's not easy walking away and not being sure I did everything I could to help. Not only for him but for his son.

I am obviously using this forum to flush out my feelings, sorry I am so long winded.

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-04-2003
Thu, 08-19-2004 - 1:58pm
If her name isn't on the house, he can have the police escort her out, change the locks and file a restraining order.


Carrie

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-30-2003
Thu, 08-19-2004 - 5:24pm
You can't save someone who doesn't want to be saved. And you can't save someone who won't try and save him or herself. That goes for everyone in the world - sisters, brothers, parents, girlfriends and yes, in this case guy friends.

If you continue to be a part of the drama then you are somehow being a co-dependent in the mess he calls 'life'. It is just an excuse for him to not make his life better because he has lost you 'the only thing he had left to live for'. If he had you, he would use something else. But he will never have you because then he won't have his nicely wrapped up excuse. He has done nothing but make excuses for his lack of responsibility to his son and his inability to improve his life situation.

What he has done to his life is terribly sad. But what he has done to and exposed his son to is deplorable, unforgivable and something that I personally could have no respect for.

This man's life is a mess - just the way he likes it - just the way he created it. Sad as it may make you - leave him alone with it. It is only going to mess you up and hinder your happiness and progress in life. The fact that you were even considering wanting to be with this guy (you did say you wanted to marry him-yuk!) shows that you have some kind of need to create instability and drama in your life. That is not good for you. Go and do some therapy to find out why you wanted someone so messed up so that you can be assured of not repeating this mistake.

Sorry to be harsh. But this guy has been a mess for so long and your participation in it and desire to even be a part of it means that you have some issues you need to address.

I hope you figure this stuff out for yourself so that you can find the happiness you want and the life you wish to lead. Good luck.

Visitor (not verified)
anonymous user
Thu, 08-19-2004 - 8:58pm
Thanks everyone. I guess I was feeling a bit guilty that I wasn't able to help him. I walked away 5 months ago, which was the hardest thing I ever had to do, but I have really been feeling that if I had just _____ maybe than he would pull his life back together. He was such a great guy. Charming, funny, he could be sensitive and vulnerable and we have always been able to finish each others sentences. Between this mess and his first wife, they seem to have taken all the life out of him. Now he works, drinks and passes out. The guy I knew doesn't exist anymore. In the past 2 years, I got lots of glimpses of him, so I thought I might be able to reach him. Guess not. I just have never been exposed to this much drama before. My life has been pretty straight forward and healthy. I have two great kids, own my own successful business. My marriage ended without too much drama, after 20 years we were great friends, but unfortunately nothing more. It was very surreal to have been involved with this. I just couldn't believe most of it. In fact when I first called the police regarding her calls I said to him, I feel like I just landed on a Jerry Springer episode. This is ridiculous! I didn't think people like this really existed. Writing this all down helped me a lot.

Thanks again for your thoughts, I suppose I just needed some reassurance that there was really nothing left for me to do but to let him go.