Dont know what to do... need help!
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Dont know what to do... need help!
| Sun, 01-27-2008 - 3:28am |
Just a warning… this is very long but in advance, thank you to those who took your time to read and also to those who give me advice!!! Ive

Hi there Amanda (pretty name, by the way),
Ok, first--whew! LONG post, but I did read it all. Just make sure to chunk what you wrote down into paragraphs; it's hard on the eyes reading one big unit of sentences like that (and the pink font, too).
Trust me when I say that EVERY woman has gone through the dilemma of men staring at other women. You are not alone, and we privately pull our hair out having to deal with this unfortunate hard-wired brain men possess.
And that is the key you have to remember: Men are indeed HARD-WIRED for sex, sex, sex. Whatever sex drive you have, men have it 100-fold. What doesn't help is that your man is right at his sexual peak, unfortunately. This is going to make him insanely sexual, to the point of perversion.
At such a young age, he is going to be extremely curious and extremely aware of women all around him. Again, you cannot control it, no matter what you may think--he is hard-wired for this. However, regardless, it is still rude to you what he is pulling.
Just as men are hard-wired to look at every piece of ass that walks by, well, it's also human nature to want to take a piss right at the moment we feel the urgency! But do we do it? No. We have what's called learned control and discipline. We hold it in and take ourselves to a proper place to unload.
That said, he CAN learn to control it...but only if he wants to. It's one thing if men glance--that's an innate, instinctive involuntary reaction that all humans have. Hell, I glance at pretty girls, too, and I am not even gay. It's instinctive to notice curves, nice hair, big eyes, etc.
But it's another thing to OGLE. Ogling is when the man takes it beyond the few seconds required to instinctively accept in the brain that this or that woman is physically attractive. Ogling is an actual act of mentally enjoying that other person, undressing them in your mind, and at the expense of forgetting who you're standing there with. To me, that is a form of cheating (a low level form), and if nothing else, is disrespectful to you.
I have certainly dated oglers, and what's even sadder is that it is ALWAYS combined with the denial mechanism. That is unfortunately yet another built-in hard-wiring of men. So, now you receive two issues: One, he is being disrespectful to you by ogling, and then two, he denies doing it, even though you clearly have good enough vision and common sense to see that it is indeed occurring.
The first step to take is to explain this whole thing to him, as I did to you. Explain that while he is a man--and all men do it (so, no, he is not special or different; he is like every man out there--sorry, no gold star for him)--that does not give him the right to disrespect you like that. He must learn to have horse blinders on. Explain that all humans have instincts to do things, but we can supersede those instincts with learned behaviors and disciplines. Just as it's instinct for us to say "ow" when he get hurt, martial artists will learn the discipline of accepting pain and not saying a word when hurt.
The next step to is to explain that you do not do it to him, so he shouldn't do it to you--period. End of story. When couples first start dating and becoming serious, it is prudent that you sit down and communicate the boundaries, and make an agreement on what's acceptable and what is not. For example, is staring rude, are strip clubs cheating, etc. You also must make an agreement that what you give you should get back. So, if you are not ogling men, then he shouldn't be ogling women! It's a simple equation, really. Even his caveman brain can understand that one.
Sometimes the litmus test of "doing it back to him" can work--sometimes it makes things worse. It's hit or miss. I dated someone who ogled women all the time, and I addressed the issue with him multiple times, but he wouldn't change. We also got into a big debate about strip clubs, of which I am against. I think they are seedy, and only bring bad karma into the relationship; nothing good comes from them. Not worth the risk for a one hour good time with some skanky broad that has touched hundreds of men of all ages.
Anyway, I had fantastic points of view about strip clubs, and he was nothing but a windbag about it all; we kept going in circles about it. So, I am not one to back down from a debate, and we went to California just to get away. Now, mind you, at this point, we were NOT even together; we were just friends again.
We went to a dance club and I wanted to make him feel what a woman feels when her man is off at a strip club, letting a woman touch him (or even dance for him from a distance, which is still wrong). I walked right up to a guy on the dance floor, and I asked him to dance (it was fast dancing, so we weren't even touching). We boogied for a minute or two, and my friend was so angry and hurt and jealous, that he yanked me off the dance floor!
I got in his face and said, "Now you know how it feels when you go to a strip club, you jerk!" He was speechless and realized I made sense about it all. The sad part is, two people just dancing with their clothes on, is still not even close to the same thing a stripper and a man's situation is! I mean, a stripper is naked, for Pete's sake! Worse, lap dances involves outright touching, which is clearly cheating, spot on.
Please do not let them use the excuse that it's just their job and therefore not cheating. Just because you slap four walls around the women, and have a neon sign saying, "Girls, Girls, Girls!" doesn't automatically make it ok to do. Geography does not determine cheating. It's the act itself which determines it.
The purpose of a stripper is to turn your guy on, which should be reserved for YOU. A man then gets excited and interacts with the stripper, in hopes for her to do more, via money. That's one step above prostitution, actually, and he is part of the process. Think about that. There is way too much sexual connectivity going on in those places--with the strippers laughing and giggling, rubbing their boobs in the men's faces, talking and flirting with them, and the men reciprocate. That level of sexual connectivity is cheating, and he should only be interacting on that level with you. Period.
As I explained earlier, my ex was livid when I danced with that guy--and the sad part is we weren't even together! So, I explained to him, "Imagine how *I* feel when we are dating and you're off at a strip club having a fun time with another woman?" No. Men should be spending their money and free time on and with you; he is essentially on a DATE with the stripper, actually. He is paying her bills, buying her drinks, while she entertains him with body parts only you should be doing. They sit in their laps and grind on their crotches...c'mon...it's ridiculous what goes on in these places. Sick, actually. And all strip clubs have what's called the "champagne room," which is a hidden way of saying "The Prostitution Room."
Oh yes--lots of things go on in that room, and all within a private, enclosed area that the man has to pay extra for. These places only worsen relationships, because men are feeble-minded when it comes to sex. Any bone shaken at them to lure them in, they will snag. I would absolutely not allow him to go to those places. It's one thing if he was single, but he is NOT. Look how livid my ex was, and (a) we were not even together, and (b) I was CLOTHED when I did it! So, yes, sometimes it bonks a guy on the head when you give them a dose of their own medicine.
I think, in conclusion, it's normal for you to feel so insecure. First, because you are human. But secondly, his obvious and tacky need to check out other women would erode the toughest self-esteemed girl out there. Only porn stars themselves would be able to tolerate his BS, and not let it get to them, but mainly because they're numbed from their occupation. Most strippers hate men, actually, and it's really why they do it, to "take their money." So don't let it fool you. Most women hate strip clubs and most strippers are self-loathing, low self-esteem, desperate women that were probably sexually abused as a child.
Your best bet is to stand firm with your beliefs. What you think is wrong and rude to you is what YOU own, and is very real. You're not insane or just being a bitch. You are a woman that loves a man who is getting his kicks from every form of sexual content, at your expense.
Now, my Italian butt would fight fire with fire at first, just to see if that wakes him up some. It's worked for me before, but sometimes it does not. You can always try to suddenly pretend to be this sexual goddess that just cannot get enough of men, golly gee! Suddenly you have Playgirl magazine for you to enjoy in bed! Suddenly you're off to a Chippendale male review (strip club) to see REAL men dance! Oh yes, I think that would bother him. He might not own up to it at first, but it will bother him. He'll start to worry that your mind is wandering about other men and you're starting to compare him to the real, hot sexy Chippendale dancers, etc. Believe me--men are VERY insecure creatures; don't let them fool ya.
Now, as for him having fantasies--all men do. He's full of crap. All humans at one point, think about another human. It's nature. I think you need to really sit him down and explain everything I just did to you. It all bottom lines to this: If it bothers you, he needs to stop doing it, or else you'll find someone that has more respect for you to not do it. There ARE men out there that will tone down their sexual cravings, Amanda. While you cannot ever erase a man's brain of thinking of women and sex 24-7, you can at least find or work a man to the point of not being so obvious about it, and yes, cease all purchases of porns and such. He should spending money on you, like massage oils and such. he should spending that money on dinners and flowers and lingerie for YOU.
Only when you guys are years into a marriage, should you ever loosen up on things like a porn here or there; you two are too young and early in the game to have him already doing this to you. But I still say "never" on strip clubs--that's just me (and trust me, many women feel the way I do, but don't know how to argue it with a man--something I am good at--and are afraid that a man is going to cheat on them if they set that boundary...well, they already ARE cheating by going!).
So, I just gave you a huge response, but it coincides with your huge post. If you have any other things you'd like to ask or share, I'll check back and respond. Good luck and STICK TO YOUR GUNS; you'd be surprised how many of us have the same holstered weapons!
Young love, lol...
You two must be exhausted. All of that negative energy instead of the fun you two should be having together! Seriously, make it easier on yourself. For example, if you believe it is disrespectful for him to attend strip clubs, don't agree to go with him! Instead, tell him how you feel about them calmly and stand by your words; if he attends another strip club behind your back, end the relationship. Don't waste so much time frantically trying to control every move he makes (like making him throw calendars away, holding his past against him as if he can change it or putting blinders on his head when you two go out in public, lol). As you can tell, it isn't making YOU feel any better, it isn't making you trust him more, and it *certainly* isn't making your relationship any better;
Welcome to the board Amanda,
Wow.