Fantasy shifting to reality?

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-11-2004
Fantasy shifting to reality?
10
Mon, 05-03-2004 - 10:44pm
I've recently asked myself, "Is this cheating, or creative fantasy?"

I'm 33, married for seven and a half years, actually with my husband for twelve.I used to be in radio, never thought I'd marry or raise a family. Never wanted to give up the single life. Then, found a man who truly completed 'my person'. Only problem, I'm absolutely tortured sometimes by my married sex life.

Over the years I've tried to keep things exciting in our sex life. We've tried to be spontaneous. Three years ago, my boss hired a new partner for me at the consulting firm where I currently work. We worked together very well, constantly laughed and genuinely enjoyed each other's company. This man has many of the same qualities as my husband-even similar physical features. It was easy to find him attractive inside and out. I've seen two girlfriends of his come and go. Co-workers tease us and call him my cubicle-husband. He's had my husband and me over his apartment for several parties. He is truly my best friend. BUT-there is something else we have going on. We are intimate friends minus physical intimacy. (??) I know. What? We both have alter egos whom we have gone so far as to give names. He's my Big Daddy, and I'm Sugar. It's completely silly, and started off from a joke I cannot recall. We used to talk in euphemisms and sexually tease each other all the time. We had private jokes in front of our signficant others. It was immature play. Recently, he IM'd me, and somehow things got very extreme. He was talking about how his ex-girl wasn't very intimate when it came to things like massages, and just enjoying quiet moments. I told him I felt bad that things had turned sour, which I do. He doesn't deserve a woman like that-he learned that eventually, the hard way. I told him, jokingly, that his Sugar would treat him right. He asked me what I'd do for him. It went back and forth. Very naughty, funny, and I loved it. Two hours later, we both orgasmed on line.

Three years of sexual tension finally released in plain english, no euphemisms, via IM. I couldn't even sleep that night. The next day at work (he's been in a new dept. for a year and a half now)we just broke out laughing, grinning ear to ear when we saw each other.

What the hell is this behavior all about? Is this healthy? I don't feel guilt, or at least I don't think I do. I know my husband looks at other women, and it doesn't bother

me. He looks at porn-doesn't bother me. But those aren't 'real' in the same way Big Daddy is. I did tell him in all seriousness that I won't come over his place ALONE. EVER! I feel there are plenty of other things we could do in each other's presence that I don't think I should explore.

Anyone out there have a Big Daddy, too?
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-01-2004
Tue, 05-04-2004 - 12:20am
You made a promise to your husband. You are married. Behave like a married woman. How would you like your husband to be doing something like that to you?

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-04-2003
Tue, 05-04-2004 - 1:53am
Infidelity reaches beyond having sex:

Emotional intimacy, virtual affairs take hold in workplace

By Karen S. Peterson

USA TODAY

Cybersex and so-called virtual affairs on the Internet are all the buzz among professionals who study spouses who stray.

But the truly fertile ground for dangerous emotional attachments outside marriages is much more conventional: the workplace. As more employees labor longer hours together, close friendships increasingly are taken for granted. And as more women move into professions once dominated by men, there are greater temptations for both sexes.

There is a new ''crisis of infidelity'' breeding in the workplace, says Baltimore psychologist and marital researcher Shirley Glass. Often it does not involve sexual thrill seekers, but ''good people,'' peers who are in good marriages.

''The new infidelity is between people who unwittingly form deep, passionate connections before realizing that they've crossed the line from platonic friendship into romantic love,'' Glass says.

Glass' 25 years of research on ''extramarital attachments'' adds to a growing understanding of just what constitutes infidelity and why it happens.

She believes affairs do not have to include sex. ''In the new infidelity, affairs do not have to be sexual. Sometimes the greatest betrayals happen without touching. Infidelity is any emotional or sexual intimacy that violates trust.''

This revised concept of an affair is embraced by increasing numbers of Glass' colleagues. People are ''incredibly devastated by their partner's emotional affair,'' says Peggy Vaughan, who has researched infidelity for 20 years. ''They separate over it, divorce over it, this breaking of a trust, a bond.'' The third edition of Vaughan's The Monogamy Myth will be released this month.

A platonic friendship, such as those that grow at work, edges into an emotional affair when three elements are present, Glass says:

* Emotional intimacy. Transgressors share more of their ''inner self, frustrations and triumphs than with their spouses. They are on a slippery slope when they begin sharing the dissatisfaction with their marriage with a co-worker.''

* Secrecy and deception. ''They neglect to say, 'We meet every morning for coffee.' Once the lying starts, the intimacy shifts farther away from the marriage.''

* Sexual chemistry. Even though the two may not act on the chemistry, there is at least an unacknowledged sexual attraction.

Glass sums up her research and that of others in Not ''Just Friends'': Protect Your Relationship from Infidelity and Heal the Trauma of Betrayal (Free Press, $24), now arriving in bookstores.

''This is the essence of the new crisis of infidelity: friendships, work relationships and Internet liaisons have become the latest threat to marriages,'' Glass says.

Affairs that take place in chat rooms on the Internet are classic examples of emotional infidelity.

How many have affairs, either emotional or sexual, is difficult to gauge. After reviewing 25 studies, Glass believes 25% of wives and 44% of husbands have had extramarital intercourse.

About two-thirds of the 350 couples she has treated include one or both partners who have had some type of intense affair, sexual or emotional. The most threatening to marriages combine both, she says. Sixty-two percent of the unfaithful men and 46% of the women met their illicit partner through work.

Researchers identify many factors contributing to infidelity. Proximity at the office is key for Glass. ''My research and the research of others point to opportunity as a primary factor. . . . Attractions are a fact of life when men and women work side by side.''

Many other risk factors may be in play. They include:

* Family patterns. Unfaithful parents tend to produce sons who betray their wives and daughters who either accept affairs as normal or are unfaithful themselves, Glass says.

* Biochemical cravings. Changes in brain chemicals during an affair can create a ''high that becomes almost addictive,'' says Atlanta psychiatrist Frank Pittman, author of Private Lies: Infidelity and the Betrayal of Intimacy.

Bonnie Eaker-Weil, author of Adultery: The Forgivable Sin, says the biological need for connection can result from ''severe stress, loss or separation'' that often can be traced back to childhood.

* Internet temptations. Increasing numbers of cyber-affairs are breaking up stable marriages, says psychologist Kimberly Young, author of Tangled in the Web: Understanding Cybersex From Fantasy to Addiction. She cites the anonymity and convenience of the Internet, as well as the escape it provides from the stresses of everyday life.

* Increasing premarital sex. The more premarital sexual activity, the greater the chance of an extramarital affair, Glass says. ''Because girls are more sexually active at younger ages than they used to be, married women are not nearly as inhibited about crossing the line.''

* Child-centered marriages. Parents with dual careers and limited time ''often collude to give what time they have to the children. Their bond is built on co-parenting, and they don't make time for themselves,'' Glass says. Stereotypically, the husband finds somebody at work to share his adult interests.

Some affairs happen, Glass says, ''because people have certain beliefs they think will protect them. They believe if they love their spouse and have a good marriage, they don't have to worry. They don't exert the caution that might be necessary or create the boundaries to make their marriages safe.''

Basically monogamous partners drawn to interesting colleagues at work find themselves in ''great internal conflict.'' Her best advice: ''The more attractive we find somebody, the more careful we have to be.''

How to keep temptation at arm's length

There is no such thing as an affair-proof marriage. But couples who want to protect their unions from infidelity can be mindful of the dangers. To keep a marriage healthy:

* Stay honest with your partner. ''Honesty is the trump card for preventing affairs,'' says Peggy Vaughan, who has studied affairs for more than two decades. Her Web site is dearpeggy.com. ''Make a commitment to sharing your attractions and temptations.'' That helps to avoid acting on them. Dishonesty and deception cause affairs to flourish, Vaughan says.

* Monitor your marriage. ''Realize if there is something missing,'' says psychologist Kimberly Young of St. Bonaventure University in southwest New York state. ''Be willing to try to fix it.'' Assess whether needs are being met.

* Stay alert for temptations. ''Be very careful of getting involved in the first place,'' Young says. ''Know the dangers. You can be drawn to an affair as to a drug. And once you are past a certain point of emotional connection, it is very hard to go into reverse.''

* Don't flirt. ''That is how affairs start,'' says Bonnie Eaker Weil, whose Web site, www.makeupdontbreakup .com, features tips for preventing infidelity. ''Flirting is not part of an innocent friendship. If you think there might be a problem with someone you flirt with, there probably is a problem.''

* Recognize that work can be a danger zone. ''Don't lunch or take private coffee breaks with the same person all the time,'' psychologist Shirley Glass says.

* Beware of the lure of the Internet. ''Emotional affairs develop quickly, in maybe a few days or weeks online, where it might take a year at the office,'' Young says. ''There is safety behind the computer screen.''

* Keep old flames from reigniting. ''If you value your marriage, think twice about having lunch with one,'' Glass says. Invite your partner along.

* Value the intimacy of your marriage. ''Reveal as much of yourself to one another as possible,'' Atlanta psychiatrist Frank Pittman says. ''You will find it less necessary to form an intimate friendship with someone else.''

* Make sure your social network supports marriage. ''Surround yourself with happily married friends who don't believe in fooling around,'' Glass says.




Is it ‘just friends’ – or emotional infidelity?

Even though there’s no sex, you still could be unfaithful, marriage counselors warn.

By Kim Campbell

In the minds of many, the definition of marital infidelity is pretty straightforward: If you have a sexual relationship with someone other than your spouse, you’ve cheated.

But marriage counselors are adding more gray to that definition by identifying non-physical ways of being unfaithful – such as forming attachments that rob a spouse of emotional intimacy.

These aren’t the bonds forged on a “girls’ night out,” but rather those formed between two co-workers who, for examples, share everything – their aspirations, their marriage woes – and keep the extent of their friendship a secret from their spouses.

“If you are skimming off the aspects of your inner life…and reserving them for your ‘friend,’ you are cheating your spouse of intimacy,” says William Doherty, a professor of family social science at the University of Minnesota.

Some experts have gone as far as to call this a new crisis of infidelity – one that is changing the way gender relationships are viewed. T hat’s the position taken by the late Shirley Glass, a researcher and family therapist whose last book was published earlier this year, before her death.

Glass found it wasn’t just thrill seekers or those unhappy in marriage who are prone to emotional cheating. “The new infidelity is between people who unwittingly form deep, passionate connections before realizing that they’ve crossed the line from platonic friendship into romantic love,” she wrote in “NOT ‘Just Friends’: Protect Your Relationship from Infidelity and Heal the Trauma of Betrayal.”

Today, there are greater opportunities for intimate relationships to form between men and women and for the boundaries between platonic and romantic feelings to blur, she and others argue. Changes in the work force have brought more women into offices at all levels, and the Internet has made it far easier to quickly form bonds with strangers.

In both cases, it can be easy to meet someone and suspend reality. On the Internet, a contact can become a romanticized ideal without faults. And, in the office, an intriguing co-worker can seem more exciting than a spouse with whom you have to pay bills and fix plumbing.

“An emotional affair to me can be as damaging as a sexual affair, because an emotional connection is what people really want,” says Rona Subotnik, a marriage and family therapist in Palm Desert and author of books on infidelity, including Internet relationships. The workplace is a particularly fertile ground for cheating, experts say. By some accounts, the office is replacing the local pub as the place where men and women meet – and cheat.

About 8 million to 10 million new relationship are formed annually in offices, according to Dennis Powers, a professor of business law at Southern Oregon University in Ashland and author of the 1998 book “The Office Romance.”

That figure is for singles entering relationship, but the same environment might easily influence those who are married. Working closely together on a project, for example, can be enticing, as can simply being around someone every day who shares similar goals and aspirations. An “emotional affair” tends to involve sexual attraction – even if not acted on – and secrecy on the part of a married participant, therapists note. It can be difficult in the workplace to realize an emotional affair is developing, says Doherty, because there’s usually not a big event, like a sexual encounter, to signal that you’ve turned a corner. Even so, not everyone believes that interaction between men and women in the workplace spells disaster. “The mere fact that a person has friendships from work by itself can’t be considered unethical. The question is where it crosses the line,” Powers says.

Some observers note that the issue of emotional affairs is prompting new rules for gender relationships, but not everyone thinks more rules are the best idea. Laura Kipnis, author of the recent book “Against Love: A Polemic,” questions whether it is right for one partner to control another’s autonomy or intimacies too much. “To what extent is it ethical…that their movements or associates should be restricted to appease my own anxiety or insecurity?” she asks.

For her part, Glass offers a framework for separating home and work (recreation) relationships, noting that fidelity is about maintaining appropriate boundaries. Among her suggestions: discuss relationship issues at home, don’t lunch or take private coffee breaks with the same person, discuss your online friendships with your partner, and surround yourself with friends who are happily married and who are committed to the idea of fidelity.

From “NOT ‘Just Friends’ ” by Shirley Glass

WHEN FRIENDSHIP CROSSES THE LINE

Has your friendship become an emotional affair?

1. Do you confide more to your friend than to your partner about how your day went?

2. Do you discuss negative feelings or intimate details about your marriage with your friend but not with your partner?

3. Are you open with your partner about the extent of your involvement with your friend?

4. Would you feel comfortable if your partner heard your conversation with your friend?

5. Would you feel comfortable if your partner saw a videotape of your meetings?

6. Are you aware of sexual tensions in this friendship?

7. Do you and your friend touch differently when you’re alone than in front of others?

8. Are you in love with your friend?


Carrie

Avatar for northwestwanderer
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Tue, 05-04-2004 - 9:53am
What you're doing is clearly cheating, IMO...you're having interaction of a sexual nature with another actual person. The fact that it's online rather than in person is immaterial.

If you value your marriage, you need to nip this in the bud.

Sheri

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-18-2003
Tue, 05-04-2004 - 10:21am
Fully agree.

Youre not just looking at porn, which is not sharing, thats looking at a body. You, though, are forming deep emotional attachments with this man. You are sharing things with him and now have shared this.

It couldnt have been worse to be physically with him any more than what you did without touching.

You shared a point to where you were totally focused on each other and I would find it hard to believe that you didnt feel that deep down. Do you think your husband would like going over to this mans house knowing that you two had cyber sex? I HIGHLY doubt it. Yet you are going to end up losing your husband over this if it keeps on.

If he ever does find out, how do you think he will feel, having trusted you both to know the definition of your professional and personal relationship boundaries only to find out that you excuse it away as it 'got out of hand'? Youre not stupid, neither is the other friend, and yet you both treated your husband as if he was, didnt you? Neither one of you valued him enough not to do this, and that is going to go bad if he finds out.

Stop this before Big Daddy=Enormous TROUBLE!

Avatar for drshoshanna
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Tue, 05-04-2004 - 10:59am

The real issue here is not about Big Daddy, but about the fact that you feel sexually tortured in your marriage. Obviously there are some real problems going on in your marriage, and all of this sexual fantasy, teasing and fun with another man is serving to replace your husband on a pyschological level, and not deal with what's truly happening. If you do choose to leave your marriage, it's best to do it carefully, consciously and after giving it a real try, really trying to work out the issues that are troubling you. Leaving a marriage through the back door, by getting more and more sexually involved with someone else (even if it is on a fantasy level - which somehow can easily burst into reality), will not leave you feeling good about yourself or truly satisfied in the long run.


Face what the real problem is in your marriage. Work it through in whatever way you can. As you do this, your replacement fantasy man will have less pull on you. Or, if things in your marriage are not going to work, then you can go forward with a new life in a way that's honest, upright and will provide a good foundation for moving on.


Best wishes.

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-13-2003
Tue, 05-04-2004 - 11:48am
To answer your question, no I do not think this is healthy. I don't think it's morally right, either. If you don't feel guilt about it then I assume your husband knows all about what's going on? If you don't feel you're doing anything wrong then I assume that means you're open and honest with him about what you're sharing with your co-worker? If not, if it's a secret, then it IS wrong and you know it deep down. Would it be ok with you if your husband was doing this with another woman?
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Tue, 05-04-2004 - 2:15pm
Basically, you like the attention...and you're thinking that your marriage status is like a heavy-duty electric fence and is going to keep you from doing anything wrong.

It won't....basically, at some point you and big daddy thru no situation that you orchestrate - at least on a conscious level - are going to find yourself alone for a period of time and when you do - you'll probably indulge in the many things that you've thought about and considered but thought you'd never do because "the situation wouldn't ever arise where you could."

This isn't a problem....as long as you don't mind if your husband has 'sugar' - that he flirts with, and he finds attractive and adorable and without fault or flaw because she finds him irresistable, and sexy, and attractive, and desirable.

Because basically - you've taken flirtation into infatuation. Which is nothing more than "your desire for me makes me feel so great about myself, I can't get enough of you".

And at some point...I can't get enough of you is likely to translate out into some sort of physical activity which you'll try to find a way to justify based on "the situation".

Which is what you're doing now, pretty much.

Just tell your husband about "Big Daddy" - so that he can get some "Sugar" at work that tells him what a hottie he is, and what she'd do with him on her knees if he would just permit it.....and then see where it all leads.

Feelings are NOT facts, goals, or calls to action.....but feelings that are prioritized, played with, nurtured, and idolized while thinking someone else is "the cause" of those feelings are likely to be acted on at some point...and you'll live to regret the factual reality of the actions...while you're providing justifications and rationalizations for the fact that you acted on feelings because at that moment - they were facts, goals, and calls to action...just this once.

Erin

quickblade14@hotmail.com

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-11-2004
Tue, 05-04-2004 - 8:37pm
Thank you for the literature! It has put things into perspective for me. I have emotionally strayed so far from myself and my marriage that I truly don't understand myself anymore. It really boggles my mind to think that I see any innocence whatsoever in what I've been doing. I'm deeply saddened because I'll never have the friendship I had with my co-worker (before all this) again, not to mention everything beyond my friendship with my husband has been sacrificed.

Thank you again.
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-11-2004
Tue, 05-04-2004 - 8:57pm
Thank you so much for the response. I wish I knew when my emotional and sexual well-being took such a turn. I was convinced years ago that I would never get married mainly because I didn't think there would ever be a man who could satisfy my needs. More recently, I started researching information on sexual addiction, and fears of commitment. I don't have a desire to walk away from my marriage. My husband and I were friends before anything else and I can't imagine not coming home to him everyday. But a very large part of me feels like I must have more of something I can't give myself. More of something my husband can't give. At least that's the way it feels. In a nutshell, I've NEVER felt satisfied in any relationship. My standards with everything are too high, I'm selfish, I'm demanding. Nothing seems like big deal to me. This whole cybersex situation seems foolish and meaningless. I see it as child's play and harmless because I know it's not going beyond this. I'll never tell my husband. He can't even stomach the idea of masturbation much less sexual pleasure from any 'external' sources.

I guess it is time to address my issues within, then address what seems lacking between my husband and I. It's going to take some work. We're friends, we're lovers and there's not really anything I would label as 'wrong'. It all leads back to me.

Thank you again!
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-11-2004
Tue, 05-04-2004 - 10:12pm
Thanks for the response. I agree. Attention has everything to do with this. A lot of people think that a strong relationship and marriage can solve anything. Those people believe if you're married, you should behave like you are married and all the things that can change that marriage will dissolve. Such a big part of me has been redefined by marriage and motherhood that I dangerously crave anything else. So much of me feels 'dead' sometimes when a greater part of me has come to life. I read the best advice you ever received in your profile, "Be yourself and see yourself thru other people's eyes - not your own - when you're thinking you're incapable of doing anything at all"

Everything that I've 'lost' about my person and feel I can't regain is given to me on a silver platter through this behavior with Big Daddy. I'm sure I'm stretching the interpretation a bit, but that's what it boils down to.

I crave what this man gives me. The weaning process needs to begin. And it will be a slow process.