Help! First fight with Fiance!

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-28-2004
Help! First fight with Fiance!
8
Sat, 02-28-2004 - 9:18am
Thursday night I just had my first fight with my Moroccan fiance who is still in Morocco awaiting his visa to move here. Because it's long distance, we talk a lot on Instant Messenger. In theory at least, we meet almost every Tuesday and Saturday at the same time. Yet, he often cancels (and usually tells me) but when he does show up he is almost always late -- anywhere from 20 minutes to 2 hours -- but usually around 40 mins to an hour. He always shows up with some excuse as to why he's late and apologizes.

I've asked him repeatedly if he would simply send me a text message from his cell phone to let me know if he's going to be really late so that I don't have to rush home and wait for him. He thinks I'm making a big deal about nothing and says that if he apologizes I need to accept it and drop it. I told him that if he apologizes but continuously repeats the behavior then it's not a genuine apology. He says that I'm treating him like a child and I feel he's being disrespectful. He didn't want to continue talking online so I called him. (Which is another bone of contention because I always call HIM because phone calls are MUCH cheaper from the States.)

Well, we argued an embarrassingly long time about this on Thursday night. To make matters worse, I told him that maybe he should find a Moroccan woman who wouldn't get upset when he shows up late or tells little lies and he responded that maybe I was right. We both got off the phone angry. Neither of us slept on Thursday night. So, on Friday morning I called him. We ended up arguing more and I asked if he wanted to talk online that evening and he said he was busy. He said he would text message me later that evening, which he didn't do. This is the first time he has not called or messaged on a day when he said he would.

So, I talked to some Arab men to gain perspective. They all agreed that showing up one or two hours late was no big deal. I asked what normally happens when they finally arrive and they said, "The person apologizes and the other person says 'ok' and they move on." So I guess according to his culture I'm totally out of line. Yet, I know that in the States it's extremely rude to leave someone waiting an hour or two without so much as a phone call to let them know you're running late.

I HATE fighting and tried to call him last night (Friday night) again but he didn't answer his phone. Now it's Saturday and he still hasn't text messaged me and we normally talk on Saturdays but he has made no plans to do so this week. This whole thing is killing me and I just want to make up -- but now he's added insult to injury because he didn't answer my call and he didn't text message me as he promised. Should I try calling him again? Or should I text message him? Or should I just wait it out to see how long it will take for him to contact me?

In the past, before we were engaged, anytime we had a disagreement we were able to "kiss and make up." In a long distance romance, the human touch is not there and it's so much worse.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Sat, 02-28-2004 - 9:43am
I think the problem here is that long distance relationships are largely fantasy based so that you cannot really communicate the way you could in person. I don't care if every moroccan believes being late is fine - you are not moroccan and he needs to accomodate your need for timeliness (and anyway I don't buy the cultural excuse) - ask yourself why you are with someone disrespectful, who lies and whether you have an image of him - from the fact that you don't spend consistent in person time with him that is different from reality, as marriage will be reality.
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-06-2003
Sat, 02-28-2004 - 11:24am
I saw your post on another board, too. I'm sorry that you are having to deal with this. It can not be easy. I'm going to be honest - I do not see a guy who loves you, respects you, admires you as a person, and can't wait to be together again. None of his actions, as you've described them, show him loving you.

I see a guy who is doing just as little as he can get away with, to keep you in line, until he can get his visa - his ticket. If he can be this disrespectful now, while he *needs* you to be on his side and helping him, how will he be treating you once he has the visa and the marriage certificate. He will not need to 'keep you happy' then. (he's not even doing that now)

When the words do not match the actions, believe the actions! To quote Maya Angelo - "When someone shows you who they are, believe them" He is not hiding who he is. It's right there for you to see, if you choose to see it. You are signing up for an entire life of being left out, waiting, wondering, worrying, listening to lame excuses and being lied to. If you see anything else, you are looking at something that is not reality. Let the fantasy go - the casting is all wrong. This guy is not capable of playing the part of the prince.

I'm sorry that I probably sound harsh. I understand that you have built a dream around a future with this person. I know there is pain involved here. I think the reason people post to these forums is to get unbiased opinions. Since I know neither of you, I did not take your pain into consideration in my response, only the facts, as I see them.

No good can come of a life with a man who does not respect you and expects you just to get over it when you are hurt or offended.

Good luck and keep looking up^, Susan.

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-27-2004
Sat, 02-28-2004 - 1:21pm
I agree with Brown Eyed Susan...this is what the engagement is for to test the waters. I am also engaged and having issues. I know it is hard to let go of a dream you have built up to be this man, but this is a life long commitment.
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-02-2003
Sat, 02-28-2004 - 1:48pm

have you EVER met in person? have you EVER spent time with him, in the US or in morroco? have you met his friends, family?


please understand that there are cultural DIFFERENCES, between countries, relgions etc. doesn't mean that you are right and he is wrong, or vice versa, but there ARE differences. its true that in the middle east many people don't have the same concepts of TIME that people in western countries have. therefore, if someone is "late" (according to western concepts), its NOT a big deal in morroco. people don't get insulted about that. and its not a question of "excuses". in YOUR mind - you don't understand how he can be so rude. in HIS mind - he doesn't udnerstand why you are getting so upset about this little thing.


I can tell you personally - that i was born in the US but raised in israel (most of my life) and there are STILL things that irk me about this country, but again - its not that people are mean or rude here, they are just DIFFERENT.


I wonder if you really understand what you are getting into here. are you really willing to become a little morrocan woman? are you willing to put up with this type of behavior? is he planning to carry on his morrocan culture/religion when he moves to the US?


iVillage Member
Registered: 02-28-2004
Sat, 02-28-2004 - 3:10pm
Thank you for your input.

Yes, we have spent time together, but only in Morocco -- not in the United States. Actually, I've been to Morocco a couple of times (he's never been here, but not for lack of trying -- we're currently waiting on his visa.) I have met his entire family and his friends, all of whom treat me with great respect. Actually, he has always treated me very lovingly and with great respect, too, with the exception of our differences in "time". I know that there are numerous cultural hurdles to overcome, but I am ok with that. I have lived in 7 different countries on 4 continents and I teach to an international community. I learned 6 languages so language barriers are nothing new to me, either.

Yet, the Arab culture IS new to me, and being engaged is new to me. You were right on the money when you said he couldn't understand why I was making such a big deal out of this... He's an extremely patient, laid-back guy and was baffled when I said he was being disrespectful. Actually, he has since contacted me and said he could never live without me (which is what he's said from the beginning almost 2 years ago.) He's willing to make sacrifices for us and he has promised he will try to notify me when he's going to be late. I, for my part, am going to try to understand that he is a person who is "late" and to accept him for that. To me, that's what love is all about anyway -- accepting people for who they are -- faults and all -- and making compromises whenever necessary.

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-06-2003
Sat, 02-28-2004 - 3:51pm
Is it really true? Did he say he will *try* to notify you when he's going to be late? Excellent!! Too bad he didn't say that he *will* notify you when he's going to be late.

Well, there you go, problem solved....?.? And you, now, for that promise to *try* - say, "I, for my part, am going to try to understand that he is a person who is "late" and to accept him for that"

OK, if that is what you want for your future, Wow...I envy you....NOT!!!!!

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-02-2003
Sun, 02-29-2004 - 6:24am

well. its nice that YOU are willing to make compromises, but is he? you see, the problem tht you have is NOT that he is "late" and you are "on time", that is more of a symptom. the PROBLEM is that you are from two very different cultures and your BASIC expectations of marriage, respect, family, etc are very different. and most of us don't think twice about things like this. and i am wondering again, just what you are getting yourself into.


my next paragraph may be insulting to some people, and may seem prejudice. its neither. I am living in the middle east myself, and I am telling the way things work here: middle eastern/north african people in general are VERY warm, friendly, respectful of guests, and giving gifts - even lavish gifts - is something that is part of the culture. also, people sometimes will say things just to get what they want, or to please someone, or to avoid insulting someone, and then they all forget about it. in the western world its called "lying" or "manipulating", here its a way of life. if you LIVE here - yo uare aware of it so you ignore it. please please please don't get taken in by all this. you really have to weigh everything - WILL you be able to overcome the gap - a gap which YOU are not even aware of? what about religion? children? what about a second wife? is his idea of fidelity the same as yours? do you understand that in the arab culture HE will make the decisions, including what you can wear, and if yo uwill go to work? do you understand that according to the muslim religion, if you have kids, the kids are muslim (and please disregard whatever he says now). and if, God forbid, in the future you want to divorce - you will leave your children with him and his extended family? do you understand that he has obligations to take care of his extended family (money, housing them if needed in YOUR home, etc)


and last but not least - and again, i apologize for insulting him - but this has been on my mind ever since i read your post - could it be that he is just looking to get a visa to the US? and its easier if he is engaged/married?


I would honestly and sincerely suggest tht you wait on the wedding, spend time together in the US, see if he works, see what else is going on ...

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-28-2004
Sun, 02-29-2004 - 10:48am
I know that what you're saying about telling people something just to please them or to avoid insulting them. What he calls "just being nice" I would label a "lie" -- we've already encountered that. But that, too, is a process of learning what IS and what IS NOT acceptable in each others' cultures in general and for your partner in specific.

I'm not going into this blindly -- it is far from my first intercultural relationship. I know there will be a gap, but will learn many of the specifics of this particular gap as I go (as will he). We're far from the first Arab/Western couple to get together -- and I dare say many of the other couples have not spent as much time in other cultures as we have. The point is that we're both willing to work at this relationship to make it work. In addition, he spent part of his life living in France, so he's not completely Arab in many of his viewpoints.

We have indeed discussed all of those issues that you mentioned. On some of them we shared the same viewpoints already, others we had to compromise on. He is strongly against polygamy and our views of fidelity are identical. As for religion and the children we have that covered as well, and yes, I am well aware that the children must be raised Muslim according to his religion and culture. Of course, many of the things you mentioned apply ONLY if we are living in Morocco which we will not be doing. Actually, while you brought up some wonderful points, all very valid, you honestly didn't bring up anything that we haven't already discussed over the past 2 years.

And of course you would be concerned about if he's marrying for a visa -- it's the first thing that crosses most people's minds. However, that's something I'm absolutely sure is not an issue for us. He would MUCH prefer that we live in Morocco or at the very least France. It was a big compromise on his part that he's coming to the United States because I refused to live in Morocco and preferred the US to France. He must now learn a third language and it would be much easier for him to stay in Morocco or move back to France.

In conclusion, you read in my post about one specific issue that I was concerned about. I didn't present our entire relationship because it was irrelevant to the specific concern (Arab differences in time). I appreciate your input because it is virtually the same thing I would advise someone if they were about to enter into an intercultural relationship with an Arab. But in this case, I truly was aware of all of those things that you had mentioned already... and have discovered in the course of our relationship about the "time" and "lies" concerns. I'm sure there will be many other differences we'll discover, and I'm sure it will also help for him to live here and see how these things are viewed in the United States. One step at a time is all anyone can do -- and that goes for couples from the same culture as well. Marriage is not easy -- anyone who expects it to be is a fool. But being with someone who is willing to compromise (which he most certainly is, as am I) is the key to any lasting relationship.