married to a narcissist -

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
married to a narcissist -
7
Sun, 09-05-2004 - 1:32am
Before we were married, my DH and I worked together at a university. On the side we worked together freelancing on some projects that were peripherally related to his work. At one point I started my own consulting business for which I did 95% of the work, but with which he helped me occasionally (since he is a specialist in the field). He went to work for a company developing new technologies. His hours were flexible, the pay was good, he was fairly interested in his work but did not take his work home with him. By that time we were married and decided we wanted children.

Fast forward to now, we have 2 small children. I worked up until the day I delivered my 1st, but decided to stop consulting to take care of the baby. It was right around then that I started to realize my DH has a very narcissistic personality. I think it may have been the combination of stopping my work, which he felt was promoting him (since it was in his field, really) and having a whole new person who took center stage for me - the baby. He even admitted his jealousy to me, and said once that he'd had thoughts about the baby being hurt. (He didn't say it outright, but his not wanting to say explicitly gave me the impression that he meant he had visions of himself hurting the baby.) I was shocked when he would do things like ignore the baby's crying and insist that he get to eat dinner before the baby, because he was really hungry. These days he can be very unreasonable with the kids, unable to understand why they don't always give him first time obedience for anything and everything. He plays with them too roughly sometimes, and does not seem to understand that they tire faster and are just little kids. He plays with them as if they were equal to him and thinks they should be able to compete (they are both under 5).

He has started a small company with a colleague of his, and now the business really takes up a great deal of time and definitely comes first for him above everything. He works late nights, he works weekends, holidays, whenever. I realize that small business owners must work long hours, but he cannot make real plans with us because if any little thing comes up, he'll break the plans with little or no notice. (This is in contrast to his partner, who occasionally has to leave work at a reasonable hour like any normal human being.) He also now talks about the business I had as if he did everything.

I now realize that when I felt we were working together, he felt that I was working for him and his greater good. I have tried to talk about starting a different consulting business, unrelated to his field, but he will say he doens't want to risk any money or have me take any time away from the kids. And then proceeds to list all the things that would be hard for me to do anyway. Small things that I once overlooked now seem to be pointing to blatant narcissism. He will walk out the room even as I am talking to him. He might go out for hours on a day off and not leave a note or call, and not understand why it mattered to me. He will never put family before work, in any way. If I point out that he spends no time with the children and myself, he doesn't make any plans to - he just says I should try to find some babysitting service. Our year old baby has never slept through the night, yet DH has never once gotten up with him - yet every day he complains about being tired, how he really could use a nap. I have asked him a number of times if he could take a morning off sometime so I can just go to the dentist, but he won't (even though he did do that for himself).

I'm basically stuck feeling like I should call it quits, but I worry about it's affect on the kids, on how I would find a totally new field to work in and still survive financially, what would I do with the kids, and so many things. And there's never one critical thing to make me move towards that, just a seemingly endless parade of tiny things that let me know that he is the important one, and that his life is what counts.

M.

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-29-2003
Sun, 09-05-2004 - 11:02am
Your marriage is clearly in crisis. Print out your post and keep it for reference, because you have done a good job of summarizing the problems. You need to find a good marriage counselor - FAST. If your husband won't go then go by yourself. Take your post to the first session and give it to the couselor.
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Sun, 09-05-2004 - 11:36am
Does your husband do or offer anything POSITIVE to your relationship or to your children?

Your post is extremely negative and includes elements of character assasination of your husband. I am very disturbed by your comments of:

"He even admitted his jealousy to me, and said once that he'd had thoughts about the baby being hurt. (He didn't say it outright, but his not wanting to say explicitly gave me the impression that he meant he had visions of himself hurting the baby.)"

You are putting words into his mouth through your own choices in a cruel and evil way. Come on now - are you serious? Do you honestly believe he would deliberately hurt your children? Has he shown ANY violent tendancies at all? Is this all a fabrication in your mind to create even more critical behaviors on you part? If your statement above is false and there are absolutely no facts in its support - then I think that is one of the cruelest/meanest things a woman and mother can conjure up about her husband and the father of the children. If you have actual true & documented FACTS on this, then compile then and seek domestic abuse & violence assistance immediately.

________________________________________________________________________

Lets dig a little deeper in attempts to get to the root cause of your feelings.

You are not being validated and prioritized to level in which you feel you deserve. Is this a fair statement? You had some validation and prioritization through your career before kids. Now that you are at home you have transferred accountability for this to your husband. When you don't get it, you turn critical of him (and to him) and all of his actions. By doing that you give yourself some validation as you are the only one there that can do anything positive, especially for your children. If you are hyper-critical towards your husband in your choice of words and tone of voice, then it does nothing to help promote him to offer validation & prioritization of you. In fact it pushes him away which extends this vicious cycle.

Maybe you need to get out of the house and start to build some level of a professional career again - even part time. Its a basic building block of your life that has gone missing. When you were consulting it was a source of validation & prioritization for you. I encourage you to find a way to get some "career time" back in to your life so that there is some level of balance in your life. I also encourage you to find something positive about your husband and your relationship and build from there. Try offering some appreciation rather than focusing on being critical.

Also, go get some counselling. Start by going alone as there may be some elements of depression in you. Your husband can attend at a later date when you are more willing to be less critical.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Sun, 09-05-2004 - 6:27pm
I can see where your post is coming from, and agree that I am critical of him and didn't add any positive things in my post. First, I agree that if I _had_ put words in his mouth, that would be horribly unfair. At the time, only a month or two after our first was born, I mentioned to him that I had a bad dream that I had left the baby somewhere and couldn't find her. What he actually had said to me was that he had visions of the baby getting hurt, like maybe I..." and then he trailed off. When I asked him to tell me what he meant, he said that it would be "too horrible" and he didn't want to tell me. At that time on his own he started seeing a counselor that he had seen when he was young before he knew me. (This counselor told him he was narcissistic years ago - I don't know that he is qualified to say whether he has NPD or what.) That's what I meant by his not saying so explicitly. I honestly don't think he would _ever_ hurt my children physically, or I wouldn't still be here. The reason I mention it was because I believe these "visions" (as he called them) were caused by his jealousy. Suddenly I wasn't working full-time on a job that was promoting his work, all my time was spent on the baby.

Before we had kids, we talked it over quite a bit. The job he had then, and said he intended to keep, was well-playing, fairly interesting to him, and very flexible. He said he felt that caring for children should be a 50/50 thing. This is not how he acts at all. With his current job, he often works 2 nights a week and one or even two days on the weekends. His job now is flexible, too - he just is getting a lot of self-esteem out of it, so he chooses not to take advantage of any flexibility. He wasn't being paid the summer DS was born, yet he only took off 2 weeks. He also goes out with his running friends once a week, whereas I can't go anyway. I went out with my friends for dinner twice in the last 4 years. Each time he called after I was gone for 2 hours, saying "the children need you, you have to come home and take care of them." If he wants to make time for any appointment - lunch with friends, the chiropractor, his counselor, it's no problem for him to take time from work. If I ask him to take a couple of hours off so I can get something done for myself, whether it's hair or dentist, whatever, no, he can't.

The kids do not get up early enough to see him before work, which is fine with him since he doesn't like anyone to be in his way while he showers and has his coffee, etc. So when he works late, and they go to bed before he gets back, it is just the same as if he were away on a business trip - they don't see him for days. He also comes home when he feels like it. He is late 4 out of 5 times, for no reason. He might say he'll be home in an hour - and call after an hour and a half and say he ended up talking to someone, he'll be home in 40 minutes... and call an hour later to say he hasn't left yet. This is not once a month, it happens all the time. It's rude and insensitive. He is actually better in some ways than he was for awhile, because a few months went by when I couldn't say anything to him without getting a reply in a nasty tone. If I ask why, he would just say he's tired. How would you feel if you ask your DH what he'd like for dinner and the answer is always something like "leave me alone" or "you figure it out" in a nasty tone? I don't know about you, but it doesn't feel good to me.

He does sometimes enjoy taking the kids to the playground or for a walk (if I get them ready and pack a snack and water). This happens about once a week. I guess since I know other women whose husbands come home at a regular hour at a predictable time so they can have time to exercise or whatever. It's true that in general I might feel much better at caring for them, but has done some things with them that are nonsensical. He was teaching DS at 2 years old to cut with a long chef's knife, teaching him to jump off a retaining wall in our garden at the same age (even though the jump is over bramble bushes and onto cement). At 1 year he was sitting with DD on the edge of our friend's pool, and refused to hold onto her, saying she was "fine." I said ok, you're the Dad. Of course she plunged in and he had to pull her up, coughing and puking all over their deck. He just doesn't inspire one to have confidence in his abilities with children; he can't seem to ever put himself in anyone else's shoes, to see how they might think or feel.

I agree that it's only outside the home where I might start to feel better. I really can't do the business that I did before. Maybe I only needed DH 5% of the time, but I did need him. It's been 10 years since I got my master's in a technological field, so that's pretty out of date. I had wanted to start a new business with 2 of my friends, and DH first did a lot of passive/agressive talk (oh, you wouldn't be able to do it, it's too hard a market, etc.) Finally he admitted that no, he just wouldn't want to risk any money on any venture I might want to try. Before having kids we talked about "being there" for them, homeschooling and no daycare and all that.

I'm sorry for going on and on. I don't mean he's Attila the Hun. He can be funny, and intelligent talented, and charming. This is really part of the problem - there's no crisis. He's a good provider, financially. He just doesn't feel like a partner in life, he just does his own thing. I don't think he does anything with the intention of hurting me - he just doesn't understand why it does. If I tell him I didn't appreciate his working voluntarily 8 Saturdays in a row, he'll say, "But I wanted to." And he is truly confused as to why that isn't all the answer he needs. Works and plays when he wants, plays Dad when he wants, if he wants.

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-13-2004
Sun, 09-05-2004 - 6:37pm
In my opinion...people come to these boards to get support and advice and NOT so people can make mean and judgemental assumptions about them and try to make the posters feelings seem invailid, you feel what you feel and you want advice, not...someone telling you that you are making this whole story up. Because why would you? You aren't coming to us as family or good friends, you are coming to us for advice.

Anyway, with that said, from the way you described your husband's comments on jealousy and your child getting hurt, I don't think you are putting words into his mouth. It sounds like he didn't tell you enough to let you know his whole line of though, so I think it's normal to wonder what he might have been thinking. If he said "I'm scared sweetie. I've been having thoughts that the baby could get hurt, it makes me nervous" that's one thing, but if he just said "I've had thoughts of the baby being hurt" and then nothing else, that leaves lost of room for your mind to wander. I'm not saying that I think he'd hurt them, but if he is THAT jealous and careless with the kids and he didn't specify what he said, I would also be wondering the same thing, so don't feel mean...and don't let people make you think you made this all up.

It sounds like you are really concerned, and from the feelings YOU have, you are valid in your worried feelings. Like the other poster said, you should read what your post said and find a counselor for yourself and your husband. I know how hard it can be trying to talk to your husband when he doesn't feel like he's doing anything upsetting. I'm not saying you have or haven't done anything wrong, but what YOU are talking about is a few problems you have with him. Hopefully the counselor will be able to bring a lot of issues into view and you guys can work from there. You both deserve happiness. Good luck :)

Lindsay

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Sun, 09-05-2004 - 6:48pm
Unfortunately one never knows what they are marrying until one gets to live with them.

Evidently your husband doesn't love your children as you do. You are not alone.

My mother's first husband was such a man. He didn't like the children and wanted nothing to do with them.

Years later, when my brother wanted to find his father, which he did, his father said to him that my brother shouldn't say that he was his son. It made my brother very bitter until the day he died.

In your case, you haven't got a marriage. Your husband is only living there. He is not connected to anyone in your house.

Sometimes we can be more lonely living with someone who doesn't love us than living alone.

In time you might just have to move on for your mental health.

My heart goes out to you.

Your husband is doing a lot of emotional damage to your children, they would be better without him.

good luck

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-04-2003
Mon, 09-06-2004 - 8:08pm
Have you read any of these:

The Destructive Narcissistic Pattern by Nina W. Brown

Why Is It Always About You? Saving Yourself from the Narcissists in Your Life by Sandy Hotchkiss

The Search for the Real Self: Unmasking the Personality Disorders of our Age, James Masterson

I Hate You – Don��t Leave Me: Understanding the Borderline Personality, Jerold Kreisman, MD

Narcissism: Denial of the True Self, Alexander Lowen

Trapped in the Mirror: Adult Children of Narcissists in Their Struggle for Self, Elan Golomb


Carrie

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Tue, 09-07-2004 - 10:01am
I haven't read any of those yet, but I definitely will - thank you so much for that list. I have read, "Understanding the Borderline Mother: Helping Her Children Transcend the Intense, Unpredictable, and Volatile Relationship -- by Christine Ann Lawson. My own mother sounds like she is definitely a "queen" case of BPD, as this book describes. My father was diagnosed as a narcissist, and fits the pattern mentioned in the book I read. I read this book only recently, and it rang so true. Probably why I didn't see my DH's narcissist side for so long; I'm used to it, grew up with it.