Needing closure, how to?

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-03-2004
Needing closure, how to?
11
Mon, 05-03-2004 - 5:13am
I am 30 years old and have been married now for almost 7 years. When I met my husband I was wanting to settle down and have children. This was my goal at the age I was at, so I looked past a lot of the desires I had for a husband and married someone who I barely knew figuring that in time I would learn to love him. I have come to love him, but there is a catch. When I met my husband I was very much in love with a man I had known for 8 years. He was in the military and we had been friends since I was 16 and he was 17. We were intimate once towards the end of this eight years and then we both just never talked about it. I believe he knew how I felt about him, I had over the years told him in letters and cards. Never of course coming right out and stating the obvious though. We were both rather shy. We would as you would say beat around the bush. But we were friends and I always felt a very strong bond and need for him in my life. My then boyfriend/now husband told me I had to call my friend where he was stationed and tell him about us if I wanted to continue seeing him and so I did. It was heart wrenching and I cried furiously over it. But I had a man who I knew would soon marry me if I did this or a man I had known for 8 years who had never made any promises but I knew I loved being around and always loved talking to. So I did it, I called, and my friend never contacted me again. We live in the same state now, he is out of the military and has been for almost 7 years. We live about 30 minutes from one another and I miss him desperately. I have tried for years to be angry with him for not taking the opportunity to tell me he wanted to be with me, or angry at him for anything, anything so I wouldn't want to talk to him. I just wanted to be angry so I wouldn't miss him so much. The problem is, is that I have had dreams for all these years. Sometimes 3+ dreams a week. The dreams are getting worse and I wake up crying, I feel terrorized by them. They make my sleep awful and for days I am depressed constantly wondering about him, how he is doing, wanting to hear his voice, see him. I love my husband and I don't want a love relationship with this other man but he was my friend and I lost him and now I can't seem to control this pain that this loss has caused. It is causing a lot of problems in my marriage. I have told myself to move on that I made a mistake by being intimate with him, that I should have told him point blank how I felt, anything but what happened. In my dreams I am always trying to get to him. He is always within veiwing distance and I am never able to talk to him. Sometimes I am even standing right next to him and I can't talk to him, no matter how hard I try it's as if he can't hear me. I can't handle this anymore. I don't want, as I said a love relationship with this man, but I still feel a definate need to talk to him. I need some advice? I don't believe he is married. His mom recently told a mutual friend of ours from school that he isn't doing anything, which to her means he isn't married and hasn't given her grandchildren yet. I don't know how my husband would respond if I told him I needed to talk to my friend. I do believe he knows that I wouldn't cheat on him, and I haven't been able to tell him yet why I am sometimes so moody and it has nothing to do with him. Please help, I can't continue like this any longer.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 05-03-2004 - 7:21am
tootse...

The only way you can convince yourself that a relationship is OVER is...TO STOP DWELLING ON WHAT YOU HAD AND APPRECIATE WHAT YOU'VE GOT! Even though you might have opted to marry a man who wasn't necessarily your first choice---he has stuck by you---which is more than you can say about the one-night intimacy you had with somebody else.

Here's something to think about:

Pianoguy rekindled a relationship with a lady he had known and loved prior to his first marriage. This happened a year after the divorce...and while everything began on an upbeat note, the 3.5 year experience turned into a major league horror show! Had a 2nd marriage occurred...I wouldn't be around to write you.

Please remember that as we mature...we all go through changes.

Many of us might "pine" for a lost love, but once we've seen him or her after several years of separation, once is often enough! Long-term separation can occasionally show us a few personality (or other) traits about that person which might drive us nuts!

So all those early dreams and fantasies you've experienced won't necessarily be an accurate reflection of your friend's personna right now!

If you HONESTLY want closure...then give yourself permission to stop thinking about the man you could've married. Make up your mind right now that an early chapter of your life story...while enjoyable during the time you lived it...IS COMPLETELY OVER! It's not going to resurface again...EVER!

After you've reconciled yourself, give the man who married you...and still loves you in spite of your past insecurity...A HUGE HUG!!! This guy deserves it because "he loves you just the way you are!"

Pianoguy

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-04-2003
Mon, 05-03-2004 - 1:22pm
You need to grieve for what might have been, for what could have been, for what you hoped would have been.... for the end of the relationship, friendship, dream of the future. Grieve that this 'friend' never did (or couldn't) express that he felt the same way about you that you felt about him.

Contacting him now, would not be in your marriage's best interest. Your husband would feel betrayed. The other guy would probably think it means you want more than a friendship and you risk 'falling in love' with your friend all the while claiming you only feel 'friendship' for him. Seriously, I think there might be some denial going on here - you claim you don't want a love relationship, but what kind of relationship do you hope to have with this guy, espeically since you already agree to end the friendship to marry your husband. Why isn't your husband your best friend? Are you looking at what you don't have instead of looking at what you do have? Seven years, changes a person. The way you feel about this other man - it's a holding on to the past, past feelings, past friendship - the feelings aren't based on how you are today, how he is today, how he may have changed or how you have changed.

Write this guy a few UNSENT letters about how you feel, then burn them.


Carrie

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-03-2004
Tue, 05-04-2004 - 3:04am
For record, this man who I once had an intimate night with, BUT eight years of an intimate friendship was a very close friend and I made a mistake by choosing to become intimate with him. The fact of the matter remains that I have tried for years now to stop myself from thinking about him and I will do okay at shutting him out conciously but apparently my subconcious doesn't want to join the party. Therefor I will dream constantly about trying to talk to him and never beig able to reach him. I can see him and often I am right next to him but can't communicate with him. What do you do with the feelings the dreams cause??? What do you do when you feel as if they are taking over your hours of rest and are affecting your mood. I wake up and yell at him aka the air, I hate you go away (my husband isn't home in the morning by the way).

Also for the record to make reference to painoguys points about my POOR husband sticking by me??? Hardly. My husband has cheated on me (he was an alcholic for the first two years of our marriage), said terrible things to me, done terrible things to me, left me alone to be married to his job, etc. etc. It has only been since March that he has started really listening to what I am saying when I tell him what I need from him. This is because I have resorted to threatening him with our pastor at church. He tries and listens or else we start counseling (we went to two sessions and he felt beat up on). He no longer drinks, he started a day job today, finally after 7 years of me being alone 5-7 days a week, nights, days off and on, leaving me to raise 2 children alone that he has made clear he can't handle. So he is no angel. I came into our marriage very shy, feminine, demure, serving and am as he would put it the bad one now. He only gets better and I only get worse. I don't agree with him here but in all fairness I am not the woman he married. We are working on it.

So as for best friend and why my husband isn't mine.... He has taken a love I gave him and stomped on it. I have been told terrible things that he says he can't remember saying or doing, he has lied numerous times to me, the list goes on. I don't trust him to be my best friend frankly, he hasn't been a friend period to me.

Also my husband never told me I had to end the relationship with my friend, he told me I had to call my friend and tell him about us, being my husband and me. You know they both were cruel at that time. My husband told me I was better to marry him because my friend would never marry me and my friend told me my now husband would never even let me have a toothbrush at his apartment. So I guess they both suck. Trust me I have hated them both at times. But it doesn't stop the apparent fact that I can't just remove this feeling I have of needing to know what he is doing and how he is doing. Yes, I can deny these feelings, which is what I have done for all these years, but apparently the dreams are going to continue. So what do I do about them? How do I make it stop hurting, how do I make myself stop missing talking to him and laughing with him.

And also just for the record, my husband wasn't my second choice he was my logical choice, knowing the very little I did about him at the time. He was a hard worker, he had great manners, he dressed nice, he was attractive to me, he was smart and he seemed to like to talk to me and genuinely care about my feelings. Oh boy what a surprise my first two years of marriage were. I finally left him for three days somewhere after the second year when our daughter was about a year old. I left for three days and told him that as long as he was drinking I wouldn't be at the house. I wouldn't divorce him but I wouldn't subject me or our daughter to his drunken obnoxiousness. That when he could be sober let me know and we would come home, but made it clear that at the times he was drinking we would not be home. He stopped the next day and I came home 2 days later. He was sober for 4 years and then last August he started drinking again. He was living in another state because of a job transfer and I was in our home state waiting to sell our home, he said the stress of the new job was just too much. We moved back to our home state and he stopped drinking again, because I told him the same thing as the first time. I am constantly reminded by him now how great he is for giving up so much for us and how ungrateful I am. So please don't feel to awful sorry for my husband. He is trying but he is no saint.

As for me, no, I am no saint. I have called him some choice names. I have yelled. I have cried. I have shut him out. I have begged. I have guilted him. I have tried to be everything he says he needs (a seamstress, cook, nanny, dry cleaner, housekeeper, accountant, and of course the sexual intimacy). He once told me he only has a few things he needs from me. They were his clothes cleaned and ironed, food cooked, his house clean and sex. Wow me and a million other women could be that for him. So no I am not perfect and I am trying to learn to get rid of the resentment I feel towards him. The dreams though and depression over missing my friend, the one I always called when guys treated me bad, are not helping me here.

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-18-2003
Tue, 05-04-2004 - 9:57am
Tootse, you've got this perfect vision in your head of the past and that is not him now. Nor, if you look at your own words, was it then, was it?

To be blunt (and I always am and I sincerely apologize), he didnt come after you did he? He didnt say, "Oh My God, I CANT LOSE THIS WOMAN!" and come flying after you, or contact you the second that he came stateside again. He let you go. If he had loved you, had wanted to not risk losing you as even a friend with the threat of no contact, he wouldnt have stepped aside so willingly. But he DID, and without the first return call to ask how could you do this, why is your relationship so little that you can walk away. You walked away, he let you. End of story. You two didnt want a permanent match with each other, you were never even a couple. Youve got this perfect image of him being everything that your husband is not and I can all but guarantee that this is not the way that things are.

First of all you are talking about feelings that you had when you were MUCH younger, much less mature, much more innocent as to what life can give you. You idolized him, really. Being a friend of someone is much different than being a lover, you know that deep down. He slept with you and still couldnt commit to a relationship with you and you miss him still. He didnt choose you back then, and that probably has more than a little bearing on this too.

Over your not consciously wanting him, thats not true. Everything that you are writing about him in these posts shows that, honey. Our subconscious isnt its own being, it takes what you feed it and lets it run free. Thats all. You do have blame for this, you are not powerless. As long as you hold this little idol in your hands, it keeps making its way to your heart and head. Until you set it down and take a good first look around you at the good instead of being determined to live in yesterday. When you do that, there are no good tomorrows, you get blindsided by everything.

You have been harboring this dream in your heart and it seeped into your head because you have done nothing but feed it with every mistake that your husband makes. You have this image of 'the dream' in your head, and I dont even think its him as much as the point before your life took a turn for the worse. (Which is life) You see him as peace and your husband as horror and hurt. Thats not quite a fair assesment. Youre judging the past ten years with your husband vs a young man of ten years ago.

You didnt get to see his mistakes and shortcomings in adulthood very much, yet your husband has been up in your face. It seems as if you are thinking (because of what you were told) that he is being held back, and you are, from a destiny that was meant to be. Honey, do you honestly think that he (without all of these hard times that youve had) hasnt moved on? With your hurts, you compare your husbands actions to him every time. Its second nature now.

Your husband has not been the sole person in your head since the day he met you. I dont doubt that he is disheartened with the marriage as much as you. Would you like to compete with a memory on his end? Are you? Talk about an unfair fight. Thats like when we divorce, you'd be amazed but I can tell you that for a while, you only remember the good times. Its like all the bad times magically disappear. (And I know what Im talking about. I was married before to an alcoholic also. Mine didnt value me enough or the children enough, to quit, no matter what I said or did. I, instead, got beat until I HAD to leave.)I even did that, though I had about four memories of him that werent painful.

Youre not even judging him fairly against this man, I would wager. I mean, you are judging a man who has made mistakes against a VERY young man who hadnt even had the chance yet to make many! Youre not even comparing them against man to man. This 'dream lover' could well be many things, including 400 pounds, you havent even seen this man as to who he is now based on the choices that he made in his life. You dont judge the younger men against each other, you judge one youve watched make his mistakes against one before he was at the age to make very many that would alter his life.

You and your husband have just NEVER learned the way to communicate. Everything that you say that you do? Those are ways to fight, not to relate to each other. But you would not leave this marriage without your kids, those, unlike husbands dont magically disappear and you would have them whether you are married or not. What would this man think of that? How can you know? Again, you cant judge the man by the boy or the young man. You dont even know him now. Seven years is alot of learning and attitude changes, even if he had been much older than you then.

Everything that you say about your husband, the ones that you DONT harp on, are decent things. Did you notice that? Again, my ex didnt stop drinking for me or his children. Yours did, and TWICE! He chose you over that, didnt he? Must be nice. You act as if that is not such a big thing, but honey I left, cried, begged, got angry, you name it. I once knelt at his feet. He spit in my face.

He is going to counseling with you to try to save the marriage. Thats more than most do. I wouldnt get so big into his cheating honey, because you have been cheating in your heart since day one and ten years later, after the kids, after all that youve shared with this man, he's still second best. I dont doubt that he very well knows it whether you have ever said it or not. You blame him for having you make the choice, I think, but you miss that YOU are the one who made that choice at the time with the knowledge that you had. You just refused to ever stand behind it. That is, in your eyes, his fault.

I wonder if you actually think that upon your divorce that if you go and see this man, thta after niceties are exchanged that you can just pick up where you left off? If so, shoot that thought quickly, it wont likely happen. This man is not going to say, "Finally, Ive put my life on hold for ten years for you. Its about time." You arent the same woman, he isnt the same man, you dont love him, you love what he was. So basically you dont want either one of them, you just want to be single again.

Youre back at the crossroads, choosing, but what you dont realize is that while you might think you are making a choice to go back to him, you might end up with absolutely nothing other than being a single parent. Does that sound worth it? The dream will still be there, you'll be able to see someone who isnt who they were, and see your husband fall in love with another woman. This does not sound like such a great thing in reality, does it?

Avatar for drshoshanna
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Tue, 05-04-2004 - 11:06am

The fact that you are having so many dreams about this man and that they are disrupting your mood and marriage indicates that you would benefit from some professional therapy at this point. Tihs is a deeply rooted issue and just talking to him might not give you the peace you desire (if fact, it could make things worse). It's best now to go to a professional and really understand this pain you are going through and why the need to contact this man is so intense now. There may be problems in your marriage that you are not consciously aware of that are fuelling this longing. You actually, did say good bye to this person when you called him and told him you were engaged. He did have a chance then to offer you a deeper relationship and he did not. As you said yourself, all through the years you knew him, he never offered you more. Your husband did. Why do you miss him so much now? What is wrong in your life that you feel the need for him? These are questions that must be carefully explored and answered - with professional help, as you are not aware of their origin.


Be careful with this. It is certainly not worth destroying a marriage with a man you have grown to love. Often when we think of the past we make it more wonderful in our own minds, and miss the fantasy we have of what was or what could have been. When one is married for many years the excitement can die down and a sense of boredom or settling take place. This needs attention. You can work on your marriage to create sparks and aliveness. Get yourself good help.


Best wishes.

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-04-2003
Tue, 05-04-2004 - 2:22pm
I agree with DrS (post #6). Seek professional help for yourself. Consider journal writing or keeping a dream journal.

::I will dream constantly about trying to talk to him and never beig able to reach him. I can see him and often I am right next to him but can't communicate with him. What do you do with the feelings the dreams cause???

I think this is a multi-leveled dream - one it's literal, you can't communicate with him and you can't reach out to him. He's lost to you. Your subconscious mind doesn't like that scenario, can't accept it, so in dream-state, you continue to try and change it through your dreams.

Mis-communication - it could also be a reflection of the hard time you are having communicating with your husband at this point, hence the threats to go to counseling vs making it work.

Also, in dreams, everyone is in the dream is a part of us, a reflection of us, so what part of you are you not connecting with? What does this guy represent to you - lost friendship, lost intimacy, what else? Have you lost those things inside you, with you? Not only with you, this guy from the past, but also with your husband currently.

Consider every night before bed, sending a prayer asking for definitate meaning or clarification of the dream. State 'clarify my dreams for me' ask 'what are my dreams specifically trying to tell me?'

Also, if you would like a form letter regarding forgiveness to write to this guy from your past, email me at onetwinflame@hotmail.com - it may help lift the energy between the two of you.

My best to you.


Carrie

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-19-2004
Tue, 05-04-2004 - 3:09pm
I am asking you to email me 'tootsie' because we have so much in common i thought it was scarry, please email me so i can get advice from you. I am in the situation you were in all those years ago. Please advise me. I could really use it.

Thanks

Carrie

cmarshall@skywaysecurity.com

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Tue, 05-04-2004 - 3:58pm
Has it occurred to you that obviously you were way, way, way more emotionally bonded to, attached, and invested in this man than he was in you? I mean, he lives 30 minutes away - all this time has passed - you have a husband...if he wanted to continue the friendship he would have done it, with your husband involved, and there would be no problem.

Basically, you're hanging onto the idea that you broke this guy's heart...that he wanted you and that you rejected him in order to get what you wanted out of life in terms of the bigger picture.

But the reality is - the man likely was never the one doing all the contacting and connecting back then - you were. And he was never as intrested in you as an individual - as you were in him.

Because if what you two really had was mutual admiration, respect, trust, and acceptance of one another as individuals.....then you could easily have reinstituted a platonic friendship that included your husband - once he returned to the area.

That hasn't happened...you just like thinking that this guy and you would make the perfect couple, that this guy and you would be so happy...you've got him on a pedestal and in reality, he probably doesn't remember much about you at all. If you found that out - it would crush you.

Or, you could reinstitute the friendship...and you could easily find out in more destructive ways that the guy doesn't have honorable morals, values, priorities or standards and your desire for him and what you believe that he is without any mature and objective review has you responding to your feeings and needs as if they're facts...and once your life is in shambles, he could walk off and say "well, it was just a fling."

Erin

quickblade14@hotmail.com

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-03-2004
Wed, 05-05-2004 - 3:31am
Well, well. What a wealth of information. You know why is it that some people seem to need to always say the mean spirited things? I received 3 helpful replys, and one asking for advice. I would say if you are not in a relationship but have a friend and you don't know what is going on, just ask, don't live your life wondering what if. You will have enough what ifs in your life why add another to the pile. What do you have to lose? Trust me nothing and I learned that from my husband. Anyhow as for Mr. from my past I am fully aware that he is no angel. He also was an alcoholic, could be rude, he and I were from different religious beliefs, and I'm sure a million things that I never learned about him because I never had to live with him, or carry on a relationship that involved raising children, money, time, and all the other things that trip up so many marriages.

I would like to make clear to everyone out in cyber-land that by no means am I thinking that I want this man over my husband. I have spent 7 years learning abput my husband; likes, dislikes, traits, habits, etc. and I love him very deeply. I, despite what a lot of people seem to think here, do not want to replace my husband. I do not think the Mr. from my past is better by any means. In fact I recently told my friend, who is engaged and having doubts, no one will complete you on there own. Everyone has faults and you must decide if the person's faults that you are with are ones you think you will be able to learn to live with. Everyone, including me and you and him and her are at times believe it or not imperfect.

I thank itwinflame for the idea about the prayer. I have always prayed for the dreams to stop and for this to just go away and let the past be just that, the past. But I have found so many times in my relationship with God that his way isn't always the way we would instantly think of rectifying problems. And he has always had a reason for this, sometimes I get tired of waiting for understandingm but of course it always works out better his way. I will start praying this prayer and I sincerely thank you for thinking of a different way than my way.

As for those meager few who seem to know the "reality" of my relationship with this man. What you said was very off base and I don't thinking hurting my feelings with "your reality" was necessary, helpful, nor nice. He and I communicated thanks to the fact that he called from every port all over the world, and when he came home on leave I was the first person he called even before the poker buddies. So no he didn't choose to step up to bat on the romantic level and so it is what it is. But please don't belittle the friendship we did have, he walked with me through the break up of my fiance, the death of my son, and all of the trivial things life hands you that you feel you can't deal with alone. I don't believe I broke his heart, but I don't believe either that I didn't leave something behind that was at least memorable if not precious. My friendship to this man was eight years. During those years he could have taken full advantage of my feelings for him and used me for sex when he wanted and yet he respected me enough not to do that to me, which is more than can be said for a lot of men in our society. Instead he chose to wait until I broached the subject on our last visit together and even then wanted to talk to make sure I was doing it for me and not just for him. That was the one and only time we were ever physically intimate other than a few, and I do mean very few goodnight kisses. So as far as the friendship goes, I can guarantee that it was mutual. Can I guarantee that what he felt was as strong as what I felt, no, but then it is hard even now with my husband to tell what he feels most of the time.

And so onto that subject, my husband that is. I sat down tonight and talked to him about the lack of friendship in our marriage. I explained that it is very important for me to have him as a friend and to know that he needs me on that level also. We came to the conclusion that we don't do enough to nuture that part of our marriage. I explained it in a way I feel he understood. I asked him if his long time friend and him had a friendship like his and mine would he still feel close to his friend and would there friendship continue? He of course answered no. And it went on from there. I told him that twenty years from now I want to look back and say that I am such a lucky woman because I just got to spend the last twenty years married to my best friend. I asked him to attend counseling with me so that we can learn how to be that to one another and so we can learn to apologize and take better care of one another. I feel a lot better about the steps before us. I thank you all for being my sounding board and appreciate the positive comments and advice. Sometimes you need to talk to someone who is not directly involved in your life to get a better perspective of a picture and how it looks. Thank you.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 05-05-2004 - 11:43am
It honestly sounds as if you've had the guy on a pedestal, and you've created a fantasy relationship/existence that "would have been if only" - and as a result - you're having dreams, and unsatisfied in your daily existence.

Make your daily existence a great thing to be living - and the dreams will stop and so will the feelings of unrest.

What you might look at is the overall dynamic that you described regarding him - alcoholic, rude, apparently financially unstable/inept.....okay - I was all those things. And really, everybody attracted to me in that phase of my life for 17 years - wanted to save me from myself, or wanted to feel good about themselves by looking down on me. they were enablers..and I was a codependent alcoholic. The second I ceased to be a codependent alcoholic (which took several years of life restructure at 35) those people couldn't stand to be around me - despite my conventional and unconventional success. Because I no longer met the needs that they had...and the dynamic that they sought in a relationship of inequality was not available with me.

Just something to think about - since the only person you contro lis yourself - restructure yourself...and you'll probably solve the dilemma.


Erin

quickblade14@hotmail.com

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