Newbie needs help!!!!!!!!!!!!!

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-05-2004
Newbie needs help!!!!!!!!!!!!!
7
Tue, 02-17-2004 - 12:11pm
I usually post in the housewives group but, may need a little help from this group as well.

Please help! This person is VERY important to me!

I am really at a loss and need any input you ladies can give me. One of my best friends has been married to a really sweet good looking guy for almost 5 years. Her and her husband have a really good marriage and have always been very close. My 30 yr. old friend is the type of person who has always been very stable, responsible, and level headed and the bread winner in her family. This past year she has worked hard to lose a lot of weight and now feels sexy for the first time in her life although her husband thought she was beautiful all along. In the beginning of January, she accepted a position that has quickly advanced her in her field; meanwhile, her 32 yr. old husband has never seemed motivated (at least to me) enough to break into the industry in which he got a degree and has always worked in a very blue collar job. To make a long story short, my friend began working with a man, who is a leader in their field. This man recently relocated out of state to be close to his 7 yr old son through a previous marriage. This man began flirting with my friend and has stirred up a flood of emotions she has never felt before and it is causing her to take stock of her life. Before she met him, she never realized how much it meant to her to have an intellectual equal. She does not want to hurt her husband, but she does not even know how to deal with the flood of emotions she is feeling. She and this man have discussed the fact that there is definitely chemistry between them but, neither of them would ever pursue it as long as she is married. I am the only person she has told and I feel like she is dependent on me to keep her level headed. I am so torn………. In one respect I have never seen her so….. Dare I say “In Love” but, on the other hand I don’t want to see her sacrifice what has always been undoubtedly the love of her life “right up till the point she met this other man.” Is it possible to fall out of love so easily or could this be something she has subconsciously wanted all along? What should I tell her? How can I help her think this through? I know this post is long girls but, I really need the help of all the women on this board who seem so wise and are each in different stages of this journey we call life. I wouldn’t even ask but my friend is a great person, one of the kindest, most giving and considerate people I know. Someone I have always admired and respected but, more confused right now than she has ever been in her life!

I would appreciate any put you girls might have. Thanks in advance!

If there is anything you would like to share in a more private manner, you may e-mail me at loren@enertial.net

Loren

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-04-2003
Tue, 02-17-2004 - 12:31pm
This can happen when a man or a woman loses a lot of weight, suddenly they become attractive to themselves, their ego is boosted and their self-esteem soars, add that to some flattery, flirting and outside attention and it's an affair waiting to happen. However, leaving the marriage without at least trying to address the issues, isn't the wisest thing to do. Because once you get to the other side of the fence, it's not always as green as you think it is. The routines of life start to bog you down - for instance, he's got a son, so there would be new issues for her to look at, deal with and be a part of - which will leave a lot less time for that intellectual stimulation she craves. Right now he's making time to talk to her about things that are important to her, because he's attracted to her, they are building a relationship (she's already sharing intimate, emotional details of her life - an emotional affair, she's already cheating her husband out of those feelings, that sharing, etc.). Yet, as soon as the relationship starts for real (physically) and some of the newness wears off, she will find herself in another, if not different routine, but a routine nonetheless, as it takes two people working on the issues, two people keeping the *flame* going, two people working toward a common goal.

I suggest she really take stock in her life, herself, and her marriage before allowing her emotions to run away with her.

Reading material:

Is it ‘just friends’ – or emotional infidelity?

Even though there’s no sex, you still could be unfaithful, marriage counselors warn.

By Kim Campbell

In the minds of many, the definition of marital infidelity is pretty straightforward: If you have a sexual relationship with someone other than your spouse, you’ve cheated.

But marriage counselors are adding more gray to that definition by identifying non-physical ways of being unfaithful – such as forming attachments that rob a spouse of emotional intimacy.

These aren’t the bonds forged on a “girls’ night out,” but rather those formed between two co-workers who, for examples, share everything – their aspirations, their marriage woes – and keep the extent of their friendship a secret from their spouses.

“If you are skimming off the aspects of your inner life…and reserving them for your ‘friend,’ you are cheating your spouse of intimacy,” says William Doherty, a professor of family social science at the University of Minnesota.

Some experts have gone as far as to call this a new crisis of infidelity – one that is changing the way gender relationships are viewed. T hat’s the position taken by the late Shirley Glass, a researcher and family therapist whose last book was published earlier this year, before her death.

Glass found it wasn’t just thrill seekers or those unhappy in marriage who are prone to emotional cheating. “The new infidelity is between people who unwittingly form deep, passionate connections before realizing that they’ve crossed the line from platonic friendship into romantic love,” she wrote in “NOT ‘Just Friends’: Protect Your Relationship from Infidelity and Heal the Trauma of Betrayal.”

Today, there are greater opportunities for intimate relationships to form between men and women and for the boundaries between platonic and romantic feelings to blur, she and others argue. Changes in the work force have brought more women into offices at all levels, and the Internet has made it far easier to quickly form bonds with strangers.

In both cases, it can be easy to meet someone and suspend reality. On the Internet, a contact can become a romanticized ideal without faults. And, in the office, an intriguing co-worker can seem more exciting than a spouse with whom you have to pay bills and fix plumbing.

“An emotional affair to me can be as damaging as a sexual affair, because an emotional connection is what people really want,” says Rona Subotnik, a marriage and family therapist in Palm Desert and author of books on infidelity, including Internet relationships. The workplace is a particularly fertile ground for cheating, experts say. By some accounts, the office is replacing the local pub as the place where men and women meet – and cheat.

About 8 mission to 10 million new relationship are formed annually in offices, according to Dennis Powers, a professor of business law at Southern Oregon University in Ashland and author of the 1998 book “The Office Romance.”

That figure is for singles entering relationship, but the same environment might easily influence those who are married. Working closely together on a project, for example, can be enticing, as can simply being around someone every day who shares similar goals and aspirations. An “emotional affair” tends to involve sexual attraction – even if not acted on – and secrecy on the part of a married participant, therapists note. It can be difficult in the workplace to realize an emotional affair is developing, says Doherty, because there’s usually not a big event, like a sexual encounter, to signal that you’ve turned a corner. Even so, not everyone believes that interaction between men and women in the workplace spells disaster. “The mere fact that a person has friendships from work by itself can’t be considered unethical. The question is where it crosses the line,” Powers says.

Some observers note that the issue of emotional affairs is prompting new rules for gender relationships, but not everyone thinks more rules are the best idea. Laura Kipnis, author of the recent book “Against Love: A Polemic,” questions whether it is right for one partner to control another’s autonomy or intimacies too much. “To what extent is it ethical…that their movements or associates should be restricted to appease my own anxiety or insecurity?” she asks.

For her part, Glass offers a framework for separating home and work relationships, noting that fidelity is about maintaining appropriate boundaries. Among her suggestions: discuss relationship issues at home, don’t lunch or take private coffee breaks with the same person, discuss your online friendships with your partner, and surround yourself with friends who are happily married and who are committed to the idea of fidelity.

From “NOT ‘Just Friends’ ” by Shirley Glass

WHEN FRIENDSHIP CROSSES THE LINE

Has your friendship become an emotional affair?

1. Do you confide more to your friend than to your partner about how your day went?

2. Do you discuss negative feelings or intimate details about your marriage with your friend but not with your partner?

3. Are you open with your partner about the extent of your involvement with your friend?

4. Would you feel comfortable if your partner heard your conversation with your friend?

5. Would you feel comfortable if your partner saw a videotape of your meetings?

6. Are you aware of sexual tensions in this friendship?

7. Do you and your friend touch differently when you’re alone than in front of others?

8. Are you in love with your friend?

My best to you and your friend.


Edited 2/17/2004 3:56:04 PM ET by itwinflame


Carrie

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-05-2004
Tue, 02-17-2004 - 3:40pm
Hi itwinflame,

I don't think I can thank you enough for taking the time to share your insight. My husband and I both read your post in utter silence. You really pressed some hard points. The situation with my friend and her husband is almost uncomfortable for my husband and I to discuss because it has really caused us to evaluate our own marriage and our personal boundaries. Your response really helped clear some of our thoughts on how far is too far and has caused us to re-consider our own boundaries. Although my friend and her husband are both two of our closest friends we would never betray her confidence by telling her husband the extent of the situation. However, we both feel compelled to help them both work through this whatever the outcome. Until we read your post we were uncomfortable with the level of the situation (especially because we are the only people in our circle of friends privy to this info) but, could not explain why. I guess the two of us have always just looked at an affair from a sexual standpoint and neither of us had ever considered the possibility or validity of having an emotional affair. Unfortunately for my best friend and her husband there will probably be no easy answers to this situation but, your post and the questions you listed at the end definitely clear up whether this is an affair or not. I am going to forward your post to my friend and hopefully she will take your wisdom to heart and truly take stock of the situation. As for me and my husband, I can never thank you enough for giving us something to ponder, discuss, and apply to future relationships that enter our lives. We are getting ready to celebrate our 10 th anniversary later this year and like my friend and her husband we are best friends and both have always felt we were soul mates so, as you can imagine, my friends “out of the blue” confession really shook us to the core. Thank You for showing all of us the true black and white of the situation…..........It definitely gave my husband and me a standard we can apply to our life.

Thank You for being that person who took the time to throw a stone of wisdom out into the pond………You will never truly see or know the ripples your kindness and compassion will inspire…………………………………….but, they will always exist.

Loren

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-04-2003
Tue, 02-17-2004 - 3:54pm
Thanks for the kind words....but I didn't write it. Kim Campbell (who ever she is LOL) and I've only added it to my collection of things to share when someone needs to hear it.


Carrie

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-05-2004
Tue, 02-17-2004 - 4:29pm
You are still an angel for taking the time to share all of it. I just spoke to my friend and she is going to be reading your post shortly.

Thanks again,

Loren

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-05-2004
Wed, 02-18-2004 - 1:51pm
Itwinflame,

Ok here's the latest, I spoke to my friend last night before

her dh came home from work. Her emotions with this guy are equivalent

to a run away train. The main thing this man seems to offer her is

intellectual conversation which is turning into her biggest weakness.

When my friend first started having these feeling she came home

crying to her husband. He just passed it off as a little crush,

appreciated her honesty, told her with his whole heart not to worry

because he trusted her and even suggested she talk to me about it.

Probably, because out of my circle of friends I am the free spirited

wild one and chances are no one else in our circle of friends could

relate. He was right to some degree. A few years back I had what I

guess you could call a hair affair with my hair dresser. Thank God

the temptation was limited to my 3 hour appointments every other

month and an occasional hair modeling show. It was strictly

emotional; we just clicked............Needless to say I had the best

hair in Orlando for a while. He even won a prestigious award given by

Loreal for the work he did on my hair. Ultimately I never wanted

anything more out of this than the excitement - strictly fantasy.

Reality would never have been so much fun and my hairdresser could

never compete with my husband so it didn't take long to shut off my

emotions or for him to find another muse. As for my dh he trusted me

and thought it was fun and it stroked his ego to have a wife who was

a hair model. He felt like every month he got to enjoy a sexy new

woman. Eventually I moved away and had to find a new hair dresser. I

don't have the best hair in Philly and the thrill of a constant new

look but, I'm not shallow enough to even give it to much thought.

However, in my friend's case exchanging favorite books and having

long intellectual conversations is her weakness and what her husband

thinks is innocent is quickly becoming intimate. She has been honest

with her husband so far except for the fact that I originally told

her to spare her husband some of the details out of consideration. I

don't think her husband needs to hear that she thinks the other guy

is smarter, and that his intellectual conversations arouse her. I

just think that too much info is just hurtful. I'm sure she wouldn't

want to hear about how one of her husband's new coworkers was sexier

than she was and how arousing it was to admire her figure. Her

husband can't change who he is intellectually anymore than she can

turn herself into a blond Barbie doll. (Please correct me if you

think I'm wrong) However, I'm not sure this new guy is not Mr. Right.

My instincts make me wonder if his character flaw lies in the fact

that he desires the chase more than the prize. My friend has told him

all along that she loves her husband, that they are very close, and

that she is uncomfortable with this new "friendship" because it makes

her feel so confused. Yet this man pursues her…………… Maybe he is

falling in love with her and can not help himself but, I've always

thought that when you love someone you tend to want what is best for

them even if it means sacrificing something for yourself. I guess

this could go either way she could either take stock in her life and

search for what is missing. After all, isn't life to short to be

unhappy? Maybe she could look within herself and take stock in her

weakness or shall I say the missing link to her marriage and replace

with platonic relationships that can offer her the intellectual

stimulation she craves with out sacrificing her marriage?

Just so you all know, I have set up a secure web board for her where

she can anonymously read my posts and your responses. I am just one

voice but, there is wisdom in the council of many and your responses

are helping her un cloud her mind so, she doesn't make a mistake she

will have to live with the rest of her life. (Regardless of what path

she chooses) This person is like a sister to me and I can not thank

you enough for taking the time to reach out to someone who is so lost

and confused. Reading your response and the responses of the women in the housewives group is really giving her the

strength to pull away from these overwhelming emotions so she to

examine this situation from every angle. Please keep responding and I

will keep you posted on how she is doing however, to keep the post simple I am just going to continue this thread in the housewives group. Pop in from time to time I would love to touch base with you from time to time.

Thanks again,

Loren


iVillage Member
Registered: 08-04-2003
Wed, 02-18-2004 - 3:42pm
::Her husband can't change who he is intellectually anymore than she can turn herself into a blond Barbie doll. (Please correct me if you think I'm wrong)

I agree with you, but I also wonder if she's given her husband the opportunity to grow with her, to start and intellectual conversation and see where it goes? Or even find a mutual topic that they are both interested in and start discussing it regularly?

::However, I'm not sure this new guy is not Mr. Right.

He may look good by outward appearances, how he makes her feel, etc BUT (see your next comment)

::My instincts make me wonder if his character flaw lies in the fact that he desires the chase more than the prize. My friend has told him all along that she loves her husband, that they are very close, and that she is uncomfortable with this new "friendship" because it makes her feel so confused. Yet this man pursues her…………… Maybe he is falling in love with her and can not help himself but, I've always thought that when you love someone you tend to want what is best for them even if it means sacrificing something for yourself.

BUT - exactly - he's pursuing a married woman. What does that say about his character, his honor, his integrity? MARRIED = UNAVAILABLE IMO

::I guess this could go either way she could either take stock in her life and search for what is missing. After all, isn't life to short to be unhappy? Maybe she could look within herself and take stock in her weakness or shall I say the missing link to her marriage and replace with platonic relationships that can offer her the intellectual stimulation she craves with out sacrificing her marriage?

You are right about this. HAPPINESS comes from within, not from another person, place or thing. Sure those things can influence happiness, but if you aren't ultimately happy with yourself, your life and your choices, you can't look to someone else to fulfill that need. About the platonic relationships and intellectual conversations, they can come from women as well - join a book group that reads something deep and discusses it, join a politcal campaign, get involved in something she believes in, has an opinion about that will produce stimulating conversations, something that excites her, but in a safe environment so she's not tempted to start another emotional bond with another man.


Edited 2/18/2004 3:43:34 PM ET by itwinflame


Carrie

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-05-2004
Thu, 02-19-2004 - 11:01am
Hi itwinflame,

Thank you all so much for being so patient with me and million word posts. I was able to finally have a long phone conversation with my friend last night and she admitted that there were thing she was unsatisfied with in the marriage long before this happened. I’ve helped her as much as I can but, she has a lot of questions so, I directed her to some of the relationship boards in I Village, a few books, and suggested she go for counseling to see if her marriage can be saved. I’ll still be there to listen to her but, it’s now up to her to write her own posts………you may see her around.

Thanks for listening to me..... I've been so worried about her and just needed to get this out.

See you around,

Scully