Ongoing ex....Does he still love her?
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| Thu, 09-02-2004 - 3:26am |
He has mostly female friends (mainly due to a dog group that he's in), and that doesn't bother me. He even travels with these female friends....sometimes one at a time, to other states for weeklong dog events. I don't have a problem with this. I guess I'm trying to rule out jealousy as a motive for my feelings about his ex-girlfriend. I honestly don't feel like I'm jealous about his ex, but I'm willing to keep an open mind. I'm hoping you'll all tell me what you think.
Here are some of the reasons I think he still has more than friendly feelings for her:
-He has talked about her two times that I consider to be "not good timing". Once just immediately after sex, and once during foreplay. The fact that she was on his mind at these times bothered me.
-He has repeatedly said "She knows me better than anybody else, and I know her better than anybody else."
-He has these ex-girlfriend artifacts decorating his bedroom walls. There is an art print that she bought him that hangs over his bed, spanning the entire width of the mattress. I feel like I'm in some sort of shrine when I'm there.
-He said he "mourned" for that relationship for two years after the breakup.
-He said that the girlfriend he had between this ex and myself was "just a distraction." This poor girl gave him over three years of her life. I'm afraid I'm distraction number two.
-He mentioned a couple of times how his ex-girlfriend always wore skirts, and how those made sex so much easier. He asked me one time weeks later if I ever wore skirts. I suspected he wanted to relive some good moments.
-He created a CD with some of his favorite songs on it. This happened early in our dating. Later, I realized that they were almost all "love lost" type songs from around the time he and his ex broke up.....over ten years ago.
-His ex-girlfriend will call him and ask him to do things for her.....which he eagerly does. He has set her up with a computer, driven for hours to take her photo when she needed it taken, and spent weeks bidding on something for her on an online auction (one item, many lost bidding instances). When I suggested that she should be able to bid on this item herself....she just needed a model number, he got really mad at me. He said "You're talking out of your a**." This wasn't like him to talk like that. This stuff also concerns me because I've asked him for help a couple of times, but he's never been willing to help me. I didn't ask for big help either. He just couldn't do it.
-When we were first dating, he would call people (mostly women) by their names when talking about them. When he said that "a friend" came over and they went to dinner, it seemed odd. This was before I knew a lot of the other stuff that has me concerned. I guess this was my first red flag.
-We had met for a date in the city where his ex-girlfriend lives. I requested that we not go to places that they used to go. I didn't know it at the time, but we ended up at one of their old restaurants just a couple of blocks from her house. He chose the restaurant.
I guess this is giving you a good idea about some of the things that concern me. At first, I felt like he was still in love with his ex and that she was stringing him along. I felt, and still feel like she should either take him back or have some compassion for him and make some sort of clean break. But, these are my thoughts and observations. He says they're inaccurate. He says they are just friends, and will be forever. I wanted to help him through what I thought were very unresolved feelings. I didn't feel jealousy, but compassion.....that's what I think, anyway. He thinks I'm insecure.
We were going to go to a therapist for all of this. He was just sure the problem was me working through my insecurities and finally accepting his ongoing relationship with his ex-girlfriend. I insisted that he also keep an open mind about possible feelings he still had for his ex. He said he would, but he really didn't think that was the problem. As we were trying to move forward, I asked him to put his friendship with his ex on a "Christmas card only" type status for one year, so that we could have a chance to solidify a little bit in our relationship. Once the year was over, if things were stronger between him and I....I would be okay with the friendship as it was. I just thought we needed a little time. He struggled with this, and ultimately wouldn't do it. But he placed the blame on me for this.
This is getting long isn't it? Sorry.
So, the plan was still on to go to therapy. I got to thinking about the relationship with this one big issue removed. He had started lying about things recently. I have to tell you this one.....I know I'm making this longer.
We were in bed after sex and the phone rings. It's his ex-girlfriend. He comes back to bed and says that it was someone else. He later gets caught because this person it was supposed to be called and asked some things they were to already know from the previous call....basically, he has no way out of this lie. He's still trying to cover up at this point. He tries to shift the blame and focus by accusing me of using him for sex and leaving. He soon admits it was a lie, and apologizes. But the fact that he lied and was willing to make deragatory remarks about me to cover his tracks was upsetting. This was the second time he had lied (that I know of). I said before this second lie, that what I really wanted was honesty, even if it was painful. The lies make everything so confusing, and cast doubt on everything else he says.
I also feel like he doesn't really listen if I say something. It works out best for us both if I drive to see him over the weekend. It's a three hour round trip drive, so the gas adds up. When I'm there, I always ask to eat somewhere inexpensive. He doesn't seem to hear that and we end up at a moderate restaraunt. I always offer to pay my portion, and he always accepts. I'm okay with that, but I'm getting tired of ordering the soup to keep it cheap.
He also forgot the date of a picnic that he was going to attend and meet my family for the first time (he hadn't missed it yet, he just forgot about it). He said that it just wasn't high on his list of priorities. He was still willing to go, but I didn't feel like the time was right at that point.
So, I'm thinking about whether to try therapy with this guy. I start remembering the lies, the dining thing, the picnic. Then I think....even if we went into therapy, and we could make this work, I would feel like his second choice, or someone he settled for.
I feel like if the things above weren't issues, the relationship would be great. But I also feel like he may have been using me. He says he loves me, and he is a great guy most of the time. I just have these doubts.
I told him a couple of days ago that I had come to a decision that this wasn't a good relationship for me. But we've broken up and gotten back together before.
I just want to be sure I'm making the right choice (ending the relationship). I don't want to throw this away if there really is potential. So.....I'm asking you for advice.
I really want to know if I was being jealous or insecure about his friendship with his ex-girlfriend. Could he really just have feelings of friendship for his ex? Was I reading too much into all of this?
Thanks for reading this, I know it was long. I would appreciate any thoughts that anyone has about all of this.

It sounds like you're in a long distance relationship, right? I can really hear your pain and confusion in all of this. There are a couple of things that bring up red flags for me (not that I wouldn't make the same mistakes -- I can and have made these over and over again). First, you say very clearly that you think he's still in love with her. You are looking at 2 things to figure this out: (1) the evidence (he has this relationship, does things for her, etc.) and (2) your gut. The next thing is that you write of him telling that you are using him for sex and then leaving. HUH??? This is, unfortunately, verbal abuse. It is pure nonsense. Women don't generally use men for sex, and quite honestly most men would be thrilled if they found a relationship in which all the woman wanted was sex. This is just absurd.
I am also concerned that he so clearly says that your important events aren't on his list of priorities.
My guess is that he was every bit as much of a commitment-phobic w/ this ex as he is with you. Now, he can romanticize that relationship as a shield from his own problems. I'm not saying that you're perfect or anything. I'm sure that you're not, and I'll bet that you have your own stuff that you're adding to this mess. You're a sweet gentle person, though, and should really sit down and very clearly examine what you want from a relationship. We are entitled to seek out relationships that are satisfying -- that's not selfish. You don't have to offer yourself up as a sacrificial lamb to help him get over his issues. I've done this as well.
Here's what you can CHOOSE to do:
1) Reiterate your wish and his acquiescence to the one-year rule for his ex. He will say you're a waffler, that you're insecure, etc. Don't let it get to you and don't care about it. EVERYONE waffles from time to time, and some form of insecurity is part of the human condition (not that we shouldn't recognize it and not let it rule our lives). The problem with this is that I don't think you trust him to follow through. You may very well ask him tons of questions and probe, investigate, etc. That's not going to be healthy because he is going to feel like he gave you what you want and still hasn't bought his peace. If you do this option, you really might want to consider combining it with counseling. That will help you work through your guilt and him work through his resentment. It will be helpful for him to hear a therapist verify the legitimacy of your concerns.
2) Keep seeing him and seek counseling, but let him continue w/ the ex thing. This is not going to make you happy. You are uncomfortable and will never be able to hide it. You will continue to beat up on yourself for "insecurity" and permit him to do the same. It will increase the disfunction in your relationship unless the counseling is very, very effective.
3) You've been in this thing for less than a year. Honestly, I do not think this guy is going to make you happy in the long run. I would suggest that you start opening your heart and mind to other possibilities. I'm not suggesting that you be unfaithful if you have an exclusive relationship. Be honest. I sense that you aren't going to be able to move on unless you feel that there is something else for you. This is very common, but not particularly healthy if the goal is for you to be happy. If you can be open minded to change, I would suggest that you get yourself into counseling to discuss all of the issues w/ this relationship. I suspect that there are many things that you have left out -- perhaps some of the worst things. If I were the boss of your life, I would get you away from this guy. If cold turkey is too hard for you, get yourself some therapy, surf around the internet dating services like "Match.com" for guys that may look more interesting that this guy (don't do anything that would make you feel guilty, though), and fall yourself out of love if you can. I know that there are decent guys out there for you, and intellectually you know it too, but if you really had integrated it into your sense of reality, I don't think you would have chosen to stay in this relationship.
Go out and buy yourself the book "The Rules." I have never been one for self-help books, but this one would be ever so helpful for you. Please read it and follow it. It will give you a guidemap for setting boundaries with this guy and other guys in your life. Believe me, it will be a very good thing for you and I will bet that you get through the book in one sitting. When you read it, you will say "yikes -- I see the problem! and I won't do it again!"
I hope this is helpful.
kids3dogs3,
I just wanted to say thanks. Your insight helped me a great deal. I'll be looking for that book tomorrow.
Thanks again,
bluelelle
Take very good care of yourself, and I would love to know what you decide to do.
Thanks so much your very nice post!