Perspective seem different - Help!
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| Thu, 04-19-2007 - 2:25am |
I am not sure if I should be on this board or another... (also sorry for how long this is..) But I am looking for ideas, answers, help
HISTORY - we have been together (living together) since last June. We met on-line the previous November.
Our sex life is incredible (up until today now) and usually we see eye to eye on almost everything else... BUT this could and might just drive us apart -- HELP HELP HELP HELP
Scenario -
1 - Her mother does not approve of ANY GUY that she selects
2 - Her mother has, this poast January, offered for HER and HER KIDS not me and my son to stay at a condo in FL with them (and other similar type things have come up) Now she HAS said that SHE would come only if the FAMILY (ME, my son, her kids and her) could be there.
3 - Recently, two days ago -- this where the arguement starts ---- her mother asked her to take her and her dad to the East coast this summer for a week. Now she only has two weeks of paid vacation. Her mother has also said that she can take her oldest son along too (with his current grades I am not sure if that will happen). Mind you that she has a brother and two other sisters that Mom did not ask - because mom is up in age and does not want to drive the trip and dad is basically blind so he can not drive either. (Mom also does not think kissing, hugging, touching or anything else is right -- ok how did there become fluid transfer for conception of her kids) :(
Her parents (Mom) would pay for the whole trip so my GF does not have to pay for basically anything - now her aguement to me is this (wouldn't you go if you had this opportunity??) -- My ANSWER is a RESOUNDING NO!! I would ONLY go if I could bring along the woman I love -- the person that I want to share life with -- this includes vacations especially...
Sarcastically - she asked me why I am not working in the same room with her if we should be together all the time --
Am I WRONG??? to think that couples (that is why you are together to be a couple -- whether living together or married) should want to take vacations together??? I have wanted to go out east to see DC and other things -- yes, she used live out there for a while (the father of her oldest is from there).
Part of this is that she has basically done everything since she was 18 (now she is 37) on her own... she was married for 5 to an abusive wife beater... NOW she thinks that my "objecting" especially when she first told her mother that only if I came along was totally changed when MOM offered to pay for her full experience!!! I just feel TORN UP INSIDE!!!
I wrote her the following poem and short letter that follows (btw - that is my pen name I use - not my real name). I have not given it to her - because I am not sure if I should.
Envisioning Family – tevon nash (c) 2007
The beginning,
Spirited yet turmoil
Finding newness
Awakening differences
Some easier over-came.
A step forward,
Sometimes two back
Each seems to think right
Each’s perspective correct
Neither seemingly relenting.
Catching backup,
Tears wish to pour
None can come
Eyes, head tormented
My brain endless wandering.
Paralysis like headlights,
Trying to say both things
The part that hurts
The one of cheer
Neither – washing away.
Like a dagger,
Driven into my heart
Victorious relatively may
Regretless of success
Never masking desired.
Where there we are,
Paradoxes
Wanting same yet different
And yet if not for love
Not a word written.
----------
Since you contradicted yourself, that you want to have me talk to you about how I am feeling – I will try to put into print how I am feeling…
(1) I know that I should be happy that your mom wants to spend time with you – (alternatively, I think it is to drive a wedge between us).
(2) Still, when I envision, yes – my perspective, a vacation – especially so early in the relationship, I do not see a need to have separate vacations from each-other. If in-fact this is so, then why would there be a need for a relationship – if each does not have a feeling of wanting to share together life’s experiences in a vacation. The whole concept of separate vacations has no merit to me. Because then, whether married or living together – you are basically saying – I do not want to be with someone I love and share these experiences.
(3) The question was brought up – if the shoe were on the opposite foot would I in-fact do or blow vacation time to be away from you – my answer is a resounding NO. The ONLY way that I would agree to an endeavor is if the woman I love was with me – sharing with me those experiences. I guess this is the MAJOR difference between us… and maybe this comes from you being on your own for so many years and not having anyone that was there to share with or wanted to share with you.
(4) I feel as though I am being persecuted from you, and your family, for wanting to be part of your life. These feelings I cannot help (as tears run down my cheeks) for you say that I don’t tell you how I am feeling – I am trying since you did not want to talk Thursday evening… you seemed to think it pointless. Obviously, as you have read – I did not think it pointless – since I wrote this to you.
(5) Finally – the ONLY reason for writing this is to let you know that I Love You and if I did not – there would be no reason to even put to print what (at 1am) is mulling in my head. I feel as though the comment about the pins and scares to your head still somehow insinuate that I would hit you… that I would submit to be so low of a person…

From her parents' perspective, you're just some guy she shacked up with. You're not a family because you haven't actually done anything like getting married that would cause you to legally be a family.
While yes I can see this situation is annoying for you, perhaps you should also consider that since her parents are getting up there in age, they aren't going to be around forever. If your girlfriend doesn't spend any time with them now, how would you imagine she's going to feel if one of her parents died a few months from now? Is your selfishness now worth causing her pain later? Have a little sympathy for her. She's in a difficult situation and you're not making it any easier on her. You're actively wanting her to have to feel guilty for spending time with her elderly parents.
And for that matter, if you wanted to end situations like this from occurring to begin with, you could consider actually getting married to her if you really are that committed to each other.
::And for that matter, if you wanted to end situations like this from occurring to begin with, you could consider actually getting married to her if you really are that committed to each other.
::because you haven't actually done anything like getting married that would cause you to legally be a family.
In WI she can not be married to 2 people. Her future ex -- it will be two years this May since she filed for divorce. As far as me not doing anything -- if it was not for me intervening in an attorney meeting on her behalf - she would not have placement and still have the 50/50 custody of the two kids from the relationship.
So I guess that answers many little questions there. I think I am more devoted to her than he (butthead) ever was during their 5 yr marriage stint -- before she left because he physically beat her and her then 13 yr old.
This is my guess...and its just a guess;
It is possible that her parents don't consider the two of you to be a legitimate couple because you aren't married. I'm assuming that they are up in their 60s or 70s. The older generations have a different view of marriage and shacking up. They could very well be disgusted and disappointed with their daughter because she is living with a man outside of wedlock. Add to that the fact that she has minor children with her as well...you can see where I'm going with this.
You state that her mother doesn't like any guy she picks. Is that because she has a history of picking losers? Is her mother worried that she will make another mistake like she did with the wife-beater?
I'm thinking that some of her mother's objections to you are well founded. She is worried about the effect on her grandchildren of having a shack-up in the house. She is anticipating a break-up between you and her daughter, which will leave her grandchildren shaken, vulnerable, and cynical about marriage. Try to see the situation from her perspective.
In some ways this seems like it would be even worse to her parents. She's legally married and living with another man without waiting for the divorce to be final.
But regardless of that, the question remains, do you love your girlfriend enough to allow her to have time with her elderly parents in the time they have left on earth?
Welcome to the board longtime_luvr,
Even if her mother doesn't see you as a long-term committed partner, my opinion is that she is undermining your relationship and your sig other is allowing it to happen.
I was talking (e-mail) with my Mom -- she basically said the same thing about undermining the relationship.
Also - my mom mentioned that there are plenty of ways besides be personally driven out there that they could get to the east coast... Bus, AmTrak, Plane...
The health is not an issue -- MOF, many times I know she has hung-up on her Mom.
My Mom wrote:
::'m sorry to say...but I agree with YOU! She has things to deal with yet in her head and the first one is ...does she really know what love is!! Love to me is giving up alot for another. Giving up a offer for a paid vacation and NOT taking your mate isn't love. The physical may be there but there is more to a relationship then that, I feel.
::Her past is still way to strong in her head. And to use you as a 'bouncing board " for those feelings isn't going to help your relationship with her.
::Her parents could fly; her parents could get other means to get to the east coast is the way I look at it. And they should be letting go of her (their daughter) and her life and let her maybe try to deal with whats in her head/feelings by herself or with YOU! It's not a good start for you two.
::If She REALLY cares about this relationship (which I don't know) she has to let you know now. It's not right for you to be left behind and left in the dark as to how she feels about you and why she is doing 'things' on her own. Her job right now, might be her escape from a relationship, I'm not sure.
My Mom is pretty cool for being in her early 60's!!! Those are her thoughts too... I just am not sure what direction to go with this...
She says that she does not want to be told what to do...
She says that she wants to share her life with me...
I know the saying - if you love someone (something) set it free -- if (she) it comes back then she (it) is yours -- BUT we also know that isn't totally true either.
My Mom also brought up this important question:
:: Her life seems to be going in a different direction from what your saying. Were do YOU fit in her life!??? You need to know that answer first maybe.
You have my sympathy. I also feel they are undermining your relationship and that your partner is letting them. I think it's terrible that they should invite her and not you. And I totally understand you wanting to spend your limited vacation time with her.
I've been living with my defacto partner for 15 years and we have two kids, mortgage, dog together. And like you, we lived together before my divorce came through. But from the beginning, both his and my parents (aged from 65 to 83) have treated us as if we were legally married.
But the way my parents deal with my sister is different to me. Where as I've always been independant and run my own life, my sister needed quite a bit of help from them when leaving her abusive first husband. Mum and dad got used to supporting her financially and emotionally through this. And dad in particular has had problems stepping back and letting her run her own life again now that all is stable. She's actually had to talk to them about letting her run her own life again.
I'm wondering if, like my sister, your girlfriend's parents interfering attitude has come from years of your girlfriend needing their involvement and support?
In defence of your partner's parents, one of the other posters suggested that your girlfriend may have a long history of choosing bad partners. I agree and think this would definately alter their view of the relationship. If past experience has taught them that she cannot make wise decisions regarding choice of partner, they would be far less likely to give this relationship credence.
Clearly, you and your SO have totally different backgrounds and expectations of your relationship. I think it might be important to take your mother and her parents out of the equation and look at it from that perspective.
To address the parent issues:
Her parents may have physical reasons or other reasons that they are unable to fly or take a train, IE, how will they get around once they are there, some medical conditions exclude flying, etc. (My grandmother was unable to use either of these modes of transportation for several medical reasons.) Also, it is not uncommon for people in their later years to lean on their children for things like this. It is probably your SO rather than their other children simply because they know she is willing, probably more compliant, and that she wants to do it.
Being a mother of adult children I have learned one major thing. It is not my place to EVER interfere in my children's relationships outside of abusive situations. If asked my opinion, I offer it very carefully. I don't tell then what to do EVER. I ask a lot of questions which makes them think about the problem and the solution. I would certainly never pass judgment on whether someone they were involved with was committed to the relationship or not no matter how much I knew about the relationship. Wow! That is really getting into the middle of it. IMHO, your mother is being intrusive by her words.
Back to your relationship:
Your SO brought a lot of baggage into your relationship. You must have known that. When you leave an abusive relationship, you have to relearn almost everything! (I was in a severely abusive marriage for 20 years before I got out.) You have to relearn the smallest things like making eggs the way you like them to the larger things like balancing your own checkbook. As for relationship skills, you are really starting over. Not only are you starting at the beginning, you are starting in the hole. You have learned to cope in so many different ways with an abusive partner that it's a whole different world when you are in a functional relationship. For me, 9 years after leaving my xh, I am STILL doing that! It takes a LOT of time.
If you take her parents and your mother out of the equation, what do you get? Here is what I see from your posts:
She is trying to be independent while still having the relationship that she wants with you. It's important that she be able to do that. She will push to see if you still love her after she does something that you don't agree with. It's important that she be able to do that and still feel loved and accepted. She is going to do a lot of things that may not be functional yet, but those things are helping her move towards normality. She doesn't know how to set boundaries and stick to them. This is her BIGGEST challenge!!!!
What I see from you is a great desire to protect her and protect your relationship with her. I see that you are afraid that her parents are not being accepting of you and your ds and what that will mean.
It's very natural that you would want to protect her. However, she *needs* to stand on her own two feet. She needs to know that she can do that.
She also needs to feel loved and probably does very much when you are protective of your relationship with her. At the same time, she is feel smothered when you do this. As much as it falls into your comfort zone and her comfort zone, it is not okay to be over-protective. This will cause her to feel that she is incapable and send her spiraling back into one of those bad places she was in in her marriage.
You can not force her parents to accept you. You can not force your parents to like you. It sounds like they probably have not spent a lot of time with you. Their expectation is that you are going to be a jerk like her STX. They are trying to protect her. They don't want to see her hurt so badly again. It will take time for them. It will take their getting to know you better. It will take time to see how your SO reacts and is treated when you are there.
The BIG question:
Should she go on this trip? To start with, having separate vacations is not the end of the world. It really should not be such a major issue when it is only a one time deal. It offers her some independence that she needs to attain. Perhaps a compromise could be reached in which she spends 10 days with her parents and the remainder on a short family vacation. Not only will this sooth her, it will buy you some BIG points with her parents. (Who may also be doing this to see how you will react, BTW.)
The biggest thing that she needs to do is to let her parents know that you are happy to see that she is spending some quality time with them this year, but next year you are all looking forward to (whatever you might be doing for your family vacation next year). Then bring up the next holiday and invite them to your home for that. She needs to let them know, in ways like this, that you are a big part of your life now. She doesn't have to have a confrontation with them unless they get totally stubborn about it. She has been clear in some things, IE not doing the trip that you and ds were not invited to before. She is setting some boundaries in having done that.
I do think that there needs to be some compromise and no emotional actions in getting her to do what you want her to do. You, of course, need to set your own boundaries. That doesn't mean that it's my way or the highway. It means that you have things that you can and can not live with. You need to know what those are and what YOU will do if you can't have that in your relationship with her. You need to know where you are willing to compromise and where you aren't. This doesn't mean that you hang it over her like a hammer, IE, you do this or else I leave kind of thing. It means that you tell her that you are willing to have separate vacations this one time, but you aren't willing to do it again or something like that. You may not even be willing to do that, but don't pussyfoot around about it. Straight up tell her that you feel very uncomfortable with her doing this and will be going on your own vacation with your ds, since he deserves a vacation, too or something like that.
BTW, I don't know that I would even see this as a "separate vacation" in all ways since she isn't taking all of her children with her. She is doing something for her parents that she feels is important. Have you asked her why this is so important vs. the times she has turned down their offers?
I am not trying to be rude with you, but sometimes, on these message boards, we get advice that may appear rude, abrupt, or just plain mean. I just know where your SO is coming from. I know how my dh handled these issues. That is what I am trying to bring out here because he was so right on in so many of the things he did so very, very patiently!