Seeking Discussion for Healthy Marriage

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-02-2004
Seeking Discussion for Healthy Marriage
9
Sun, 01-04-2004 - 9:51am
I hope I am at the right board. From what I have read so far, I guess I am.

My message is long because I am mostly ranting, but if you want to cut to the chase, scroll to my three questions at the bottm.

I am a preventive person by nature. Right now I don't have any major problems in my marriage, but would like to keep it healthy and secure. After reading the messages on the Betrayed Spouses Board, My Affair Board, and other ivillage boards and and other sites, affairs appear to be rampant, and in some cases inevitable. I know myself well enough to know I would almost never have an affair on my husband. The reason why I say almost never is because I think there is the "possiblity" that I would if I ever found out he was having an affair on me. I know two wrongs don't make a right, but I would figure "why make the sacrifices he has not made for me". Currently, I very much trust my husband and do not suspect an affair. But after reading the other boards just mentioned, women (and men)who once completely trusted their husbands, are dealing with the discoveries of affairs and that their spouse is not the same person they married. To make matters worse, many people who discover the affair also discover that their spouse is not ready crawl back and grovel for forgiveness. Instead, they end up saying things like, "I have feelings for her" "I need time alone to think this through". The poor betrayed spouse finds himself/herself giving the cheater all the control when they are the last person that deserves it. Also, while some people on the My Affair Board are hurting from their situation, many them seem so proud of their affairs! I guess that's why they have a seperate page to gloat on. I personally think they are full of it because you would not have to hide anything you are really proud of or secure with.

Now that I have ranted, here are my questions.

Why is there so much literature out there tbat supports affairs in a scientific way, espedially for men. I'm sure we all heard that it is instincitve for men to cheat because naturally they want to spread their seed as far as possible. Also that it is instinctive for women to cheat as well (but to a lesser degree than men) because they want a supportive mate, but want a child with the healthiest genes. While I believe this scientific evidence has some truth to it, I think encourages affairs more than anything. Yes, there are all sorts of things our instincts would have us do thousands of years ago, but as we evolved, we willingly gave those up. I guess it comes down to selfishness and convenience. We give up things (like hunting for food) because it is more convient for us not to. But if we are selfish enough to want to have an affair, we can willingly divert back to the instincts of our ancestors and fool around. What do you all think of this? Is there any scientific proof out there that says cheating is not inevidable but more a choice? Just wondering since all the official data I've come across seem to support it. If cheating is so instinctive, and justifiable (to hear those on the My Affair Board tell it) why are affairs so secretive? I am quite liberal (I think) and see nothing wrong with a person having multiple relationships as long as they are open to every one about it. Heck, even though it is not for me, I have nothing against those who wish to partake in open marriages. Of course open marriages goes against what we try to convey in most western societies, but how are they worse than affairs, which seem to run rampant. To me, an affair is worse due to the secrecy and the betrayed person not being aware of the total situation so they can do what is right for them.

I've seen from another post on this board a list of self help books regarding preventing affairs (and I plan to look into some of them) but does anyone have any advice they could post now? I know that taking the right measures does not guarantee prevention of anything, but taking some measures is better than nothing. I know I have a lot going on in this one message, so to summarize:

1. Why is there so much scientific evidence seemingly supporting affairs and is there any scientific evidence that support monogamy?

2. Why do you think people having affairs go through all the trouble to keep them secret (one person already answered this question on the board but any additional information is welcome)

3. What is the best way to prevent affairs.

Also, does anyone out there have some happy, optimistic stories out there, or can you refer me to a board that does? I really need to read something positive and hopefull. Thanks.

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-02-2003
Sun, 01-04-2004 - 11:42am

what scientific evidence are you talking about? and on what are you basing your statement that "affairs appear to be rampant, and in some cases inevitable". I think that is a bunch of horse droppings and a total cop out.


people have affairs because they choose to. not everybody does. you went to a message board that is FOR people who cheated and you are wondering why everyone seems to be doing it? yes, there are normal, healthy, loyal spouses out there


if you are asking how to prevent affairs - that is simple. you make a comitment that you will never ever have one. PERIOD> and yes it is that easy.


sorry, i guess i just didn't understand your post at all....

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-01-2004
Sun, 01-04-2004 - 2:50pm
Wow, you've got a lot on your mind. Why not discuss these things with your husband? How does he feel about all of this? Do you agree/think the same way about this?

I think men have affairs because they don't have the courage needed to work on their relationship. It's hard work. It's easier to get what they need elsewhere from someone who is eager to please them. The excitement he gets from the affair feels thrilling compared to the lackluster marriage. He won't leave the marriage usually and also doesn't want his wife to find out. He doesn't want to lose the security the wife, home and children offer him. If he does lose the wife, usually the excitement and thrill will disappear for him and his mistress because he is now available. Availabliity is not fun.

How do I know this? I was a mistress for a year. It makes me sick now, but at the time I didn't feel bad about it at all. He sat next to me at work. We were friends and then slowly more inappropraite things started happening. I was single and very lonely. I loved the attention. Because he was married I thougt it was "safe" to flirt with him. I had nothing else going on and I was bored. Things escalated after a while. We both fell in love. I couldn't believe this was happening. It was so dangerous, which was so exciting for both of us. We had no excitement in our lives without the affair.

He never wanted to leave his wife even though he loved me. He felt horribly guilty about his 2 kids. It was a rollarcoaster for both of us of extremely high highs and very low lows. It was addictive. I went to a therapist and a 12 step group for love addicts to try to stop the affair. He knew I was trying very hard to end it, but wouldn't stop making advances. Finally I cut him off for good. He still tried to contact me for months after. It's been over for 2 years and I have not seen him at all. I work elsewhere now.

THe wife suspected he was having an affair because of his behavior. TIP-If you suspect something-go with your gut, you are probably correct. THis is important. She sniffed it out right away. He told me. He made her feel like a total fool and turned it all around to make her look and feel like an idiot. Then I thought about it-why would I want to be with a guy who would do this to his wife? What a jerk! Look for signs-they are there. For example: All of a sudden he cares about his appearence or his clothes. He was going out more. He is working out to improve his appearence. He wouldn't let her come to work functions. He didn't call home during the day. He bought me some presents. He used his cell phone all the time. He could have been caught if she was a little more sneaky. I think sometimes the wife doesn't want to know.

The bottom line-keep your relationship with your husband open, communicative and respectful. Work on your issues so he (or you) don't look elsewhere for what you're missing.

I hope this helps you understand from another perspective.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 01-02-2004
Sun, 01-04-2004 - 8:03pm
Hi and thanks for the replies so far.

Sparkle, I really enjoyed all the info you offered. It is nice hearing from someone with your perspective. You have seemed to have learned a lot.

SK1960, wow, you are right! You did not get my post at all. I know I wrote a lot, so maybe that is the reason you were so selective in what you wanted to reply to. My initial post indicates that I have been to sites of people who cheat as well as those who have been betrayed. To be repetitive, those who have been betrayed never thought their spouse would do that to them. Many of them had what they considered open communication with their spouse, but their spouse was the one who decided to cheat. You are right SK1960, the way to avoid affairs is to make a commitment not to have one. But BOTH partners in a relationship have to make that committment, and stick to it, to prevent an affair from tarnishing their relationship. Is this how you would respond to someone who felt she/he was doing everything in a relationship to make it work and they learned their spouse had an affair? Would you tell them they did not make a strong enough committment to their relationship, and that is why their spouse had the affair? I agree with you about the scientfic evidence about infidelity being a complete cop out for those who want to have affairs. But that so called evidence is still there non the less, even though the statistic vary slightly from study to study. Do a Google search for Infidelity and cheating and you will see what I mean. The Learning Channel has programs about Sex and they discuss infidelity in depth there, college classes regarding the sociology or psychology of sex have the same statistics about infidelity in marriages, not to mention the countless articles over the years in various popular magazines such as Redbook, Good Housekeeping, Cosmo, etc. Not to mention cheating has occured in the relationships of an astounding number of people I know. And please, don't say anything like, "Well, you know the wrong kind of people". These are the perfect and most harmonious looking couples to the naked eye.

I don't know if I made this apparent in my initial post, but I am not looking to cheat, but to see the best way to "affair proof" a marriage, especially where my spouse is concerned. I trust him completely now and we have good communication. But can't ignore the fact that many people, who once trusted and communicated with their spouses as much as I do now, find themselves dealing with an affair their spouse has had. I know about all the signs of a cheating spouse also. Glad to say that none of them are currently present. However, I'd like to do what I can to make sure that those signs and a probable affair don't become present.

So there you have it, I am just looking for more optimistic information to help prevent one (especially a spouse) from cheating, even though I fully know there are no guarantees in life.

Avatar for northwestwanderer
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Sun, 01-04-2004 - 8:32pm

I think the only way to "affair proof" a marriage is for both spouses to have values that would never allow them to have an affair.

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-02-2004
Mon, 01-05-2004 - 7:24am
Hi Sheri,

I agree with you that both spouses have to have the same values where they would not want to cheat. According to much of what I have read about affairs, from people who have or are being effected by a straying spouse, is that they felt their spouse had those values when they got married, otherwise, they would have never married their spouse. Also, it would seem that many people who once thought they would not have an affair change over time. So a person who strays on their spouse is not the same person their spouse married. Of course the cheaters blame boredom, emotional neglect, etc. And I feel these are all cop outs.

I know this whole discussion I started seems so negative. That is not my attention. I am just looking for a little light and some optimism and success stories. I could just turn my head about the whole affair thing and say, "Well my husband would never have an affair on me". I think it is good to trust someone, but also naive to say NEVER (not that anyone on this board has said that yet). That is why I am looking for some advice, book references, etc. I look at my probing this way...I would like to stay healthy. If I did not research the right diets, excercise, etc. and use them to stay healthy, chances are, I may not stay healthy. But if I do, that increases my chances of staying healthy, even though it does not guarantee it. Same thing with the whole "affair proofing" a marriage, for lack of a better term.

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-04-2003
Mon, 01-05-2004 - 3:22pm
People stray for various reasons (choice, unwilling to address the issues in their marriages, no morals, etc.) and as someone else pointed out, it's a matter of character, open communication, committment AND meeting each other's needs.

People fall in love and stay in love not because of how they feel about the other person, but more to how they feel about themselves when they are with the other person.

Reading material:

His Needs, Her Needs by Dr. Willard F. Harley Jr (I've heard lots of good about this book)

Affair-Proof Your Marriage: Understanding, Preventing and Surviving an Affair by Lana

Staheli

Getting the Love You Want, Harville Hendrix

Here's an interesting Q&A on affairs -



Question: I’m 49 years old, currently single, and having an affair with a married man. He’s 53 and neither of us has ever done such a thing in the past. I don’t believe he has any divorce plans and I’m not looking for him to. And I am ethically opposed to such marital betrayal. Seems to me this will eventually end with emotional pain — mine, his, maybe hers. Why, in your opinion, are two intelligent people taking such a risk? I just don’t seem to have the resolve to stop this.

Answer: Have you ever had a moment you just wanted to freeze and keep forever? Maybe it was a great conversation, a meal, a sunset, or some moment of bliss that you never wanted to end. In the back of your mind, you knew it would be gone soon. Maybe you went so far as to try and preserve it even though you knew that was impossible. But change is the most inevitable thing we face — everything changes.

It sounds to me like you’re trying to preserve this relationship against all odds. And, in so doing, you shed light on some of the most compelling reasons that people have affairs.

THE COCAINE OF ROMANCE

An affair is a relationship out of space and out of time. Although it is bound to end (everything does), an affair holds an implicit denial that it is vulnerable to the same forces as all other normal relationships.

Affairs are the cocaine of romance, always promising that initial rush and trying to eternally preserve the infatuation stage. Add to that the intrigue, secrecy and ever-present risk of getting caught, and you have a very powerful aphrodisiac. Maybe that is why infidelity is so common. Studies have found that approximately 25 percent to 37 percent of married men and 15 percent to 20 percent of married woman admit to having had extramarital sex at least once. It is likely that these numbers are actually much higher since those who engage in these dalliances are, by definition, accustomed to concealing the truth.

In addition to getting hooked on the juice of hormones, endorphins and adrenaline, we find several other themes that make affairs so compelling:

Control. No one wants to be the yo-yo; everyone wants to be the string. The closer someone is to you, the less control you have since true intimacy requires surrender. But an affair keeps the string in your hand because it is inherently limited. Even though you both are doing things you probably don’t want to do, when it comes to the big enchilada — namely commitment — you are safe.

Fear of intimacy. This is the fear of being truly seen. Affairs keep people stuck in the “early relationship” stage where everyone is on their best behavior, says please and thank you, and shaves the appropriate parts of their respective bodies.

Putting this kind of energy into being on your best behavior is all well and good, but not when it’s in the service of hiding your true self. Many people believe there are parts of themselves so unacceptable that to have them seen will inevitably result in them being rejected. Their solution: don’t ever relax, hope, or truly get involved with another person.

In addition to keeping you at a “safe distance,” an affair gives you the extra bonus of keeping your life intact so that when you are inevitably dumped, you haven’t lost anything. It’s like flying a flight simulator — you get all the thrills and none of the risk. Great solution, if only it was real.

Emotional claustrophobia. Some people feel that settling down with another person confines them too much. So affairs are great because there’s none of that forever stuff and there is always a way out.

Committed relationships can unleash a torrent of doubt. People wonder, “Is this it? Is this the person I’m going to spend the rest of my life with, who I’m going to retire with, who I’m going to die with?”

A committed relationship can also bring up all kinds of other unpleasant questions, such as, “Would I have been happier with my high school sweetheart?” or “I don’t see rockets — is this all love is?” or “Am I now on a collision course with retirement and death?”

An affair is like a fountain of youth. It encourages you to believe that your options are still open, more love might still happen, and you are still young and living a life of continuous adventure. By the way, if this doesn’t do it for you, heroin provides a similar effect.

Fear of success. This one is especially true for women. Face it, if you were involved with an available man he might just love you back and there would be no inherent reason for the relationship not to work out. You would get what you probably don’t feel that you deserve: unadulterated love. But with an affair, no matter how wondrous it feels, it is inherently flawed and limited.

FACING THE INEVITABLE END

Instead of obsessing about how you know you should stop the affair, think about what it is you are avoiding by staying in it. By continuing the affair, you’re missing out on a real relationship that is vulnerable to all the vicissitudes of time and place. In a real relationship, you could be with someone forever, but at times may not wish to be with him for another day. You seem to wonder whether you should or even can end this affair. But if you were truly happy, you would be writing love letters instead of SOS e-mails.

Stop deceiving yourself — try as you might to preserve it, the affair, like everything else, will end one way or the other. And when it does, there will be plenty of emotional pain to go round, as you point out. Definitely his, definitely hers, and definitely yours. What you don’t directly say in your letter is that the violation of your own morals is already causing you anguish, so it’s too late to prevent pain. What you still have a choice about is how bad the pain will be. (Hint — the longer the affair goes on, the worse it will hurt when it ends.)

The kicker about affairs is that they are based on deception and the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. If he can lie to his wife, he can lie to you. And if you can deceive others, you can deceive yourself.

So take a deep breath, face the answer you knew before you wrote your letter, and take your chances with real love. It won’t last forever, but if you’re lucky it will last a lifetime.

David Marcus, Ph.D., of the San Jose Marital and Sexuality Centre.


Carrie

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-02-2004
Mon, 01-05-2004 - 7:33pm
Hi There,

Thanks for this message. I saw it previously on the other post and found it interesting then, and find it interesting now. I plan to look into those books mentioned on the post.

Hope everyone is doing well and feel free sharing good stories of totally monagamous relationships.

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-02-2004
Thu, 01-08-2004 - 6:49am
Anyone else out there want to share more about affair proofing a marriage or relationship or wish to share some success stories. Come on folks, lets hear some more optimism out there!

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-02-2003
Thu, 01-08-2004 - 12:35pm

some thoughts. I believe that cheating is not something which is "opportunity based" but it is rather something which is "values-based". and yes i do think its "that simple". i know that for myself - *I* would never cheat on my spouse or on my SO if i were in a committed relationship. yes - NEVER. because that is part of my value system. i also am not so sure that cheating is the absolute worse thing tha tcould happen in a marriage - i think that many marriages break up over totally different things.


if you go back and ask all those millions of people whose spouses cheated on them, i think you will find that there are/were many OTHER problems in that relationship, and that those problems based from values issues. if both you and your spouse have the same BASIC values system - then you do not have to worry about cheating. that means that you are both honest and open, respectful of each other, considerate, etc. and these are things that do need to be discussed, and the actions and behavior of your SO need to be considered during the dating period.


I think that people get into trouble in their relationships, when, at some point in the relationship their SO/husband will do something that is not acceptable in their eyes, and the other person just lets it go by (because they "love" him, because that's not a areason to break up a marriage, because maybe he didn't mean it, because maybe i misunderstood). and then suddenly there is another crack in the marriage, and another. why? because there is an imbalance somewhere. and so the other person may cheat or steal money or hide the fact that he lost his job, or he may turn to drink or drugs.


i can just give you an example from my own marriage (and my STBX did not cheat on me). for example, when we were still dating, there were things that my husband did that I felt were disrespectful of me or of other people. but i let it go by because i was DYING to be married. i can't say that i loved him. but I married him because i wanted to be married. and guess what - those annoying traits only got worse and worse. of course NOW i can look back and SEE those things that i didn't want to see before.