sexless newlywed
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| Tue, 08-17-2004 - 7:12pm |
Now I am so sad because after 2 years of marriage we've probably only had sex 50 times. I'm not exaggerating. Before we got married we had sex more often but he was using drugs to help him achieve an erection. He didn't tell me that until after we were engaged.
I don't know what to do. Part of it feels like it's my fault because I knowingly married him and made the assumption that things would get better. I'm 40 years old and this is my first marriage. Sex had never been a problem in the past. I had been blessed with wonderful lovemaking experiences. I personally had never had "bad sex" before...until now. I didn't realize how important sex really was to me.
We share a desire to have a family but we haven't been able to get pregnant. We have sex when I'm ovulating. We've tried fertility drugs. We only have sex when we are trying to get pregnant. I can't remember the last time we just had sex for the fun of it.
We've tried counseling together and after a year I got fed up with it. I told him he needs to figure out why he has sexual confidence problems on his own. He only wants to go to counseling with me but I feel like he's not helping himself. He had this problem way before he even met me.
I'm mad now. I used to be vibrant, sexual, sensual, passionate. I feel old and withered but even at 40 I KNOW I am too young to feel that way. He is very attractive but I no longer desire him at all. We're just housemates that are good friends. We're civil and get along great but we're platonic. I'm traditional and never thought I'd get divorced or have an affair. I think about divorce and finding a "mister" a lot now. Not because that's really what I want but because my depressed, desperate thoughts take me there.
I am losing hope that I can ever be happy in this marriage. I don't even know why I'm asking for advice except I just don't know what to do anymore. Is this a hopeless situation?

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I KNOW my husband loves and adores me so our lack of sex hasn't taken that away from me. BUT, I am questioning if I can fully feel like a woman - a sexy, sensual woman - without having a husband that chases me around the house. I love expressing my feelings with my body. I'm a dancer, I talk with my hands, I exercise like a maniac. I have a passionate, creative personality and making love for me has always been a great way for me to communicate. To me not being able to express myself sexually is like having an appendage cut off.
So, after reading all of your replies, I have reworded the question which I have to answer for myself: can I stay in this sexually incompatible and mostly sexless marriage and feel like the woman I want to be? You all helped me see that the specific area I'm unhappy about is this association between not feeling like a beautiful woman because I am unsexed.
If I have a husband in so many other wonderful ways should I even be complaining? Well, I still think I should be complaining. Somehow, I do need to acknowledge that my feelings of frustration and longing are real. In hindsight I wish I was more honest with my feelings when I became aware of this problem before we got married and that I made a bigger deal about it. Now I just hope I can resolve this problem and still stay married. There's no guarantee that the next person will be the secret ingredient to a lasting marriage because "I" will still bring all my stuff to the next relationship.
And, do some of you really find lovers and find that your relationships survive? Does it end up really making you both happier? I'm curious.
Hugs,
Meels
If you're sayinig that you've programmed yourself to believe "when he chases me around, continouously after sex I 'feel" like a sensuous and sexual woman".....then you can easily reprogram yourself to do a "solo endeavor" (not talking solo sex) that says "when I do this well, with grace, finesse, dignity, and grace I "feel" like the most sensuous and sexual woman on earth."
And then you don't need "him" to be doing anything in order to "feel" like this sensuous sexual woman that you WANT to perceive yoruself to be and currently have a middle man in between you and that impression. In your case, a middle man that won't do waht you want, in order that you can 'feel about yourself how you want to feel".
I know in the beginning of my process of self-actualization - I had absolutely no "right" to physical intimacy as I viewed my religious beliefs then. So I wrote it off as an option - took up paddling a kayak -and leanred to feel "empowered" as a result of my perfecting technique and the sport itself.
I took that knowledge -that I was intelligent, powerful, strong, capable...and that produced a feeling (feelings are a result of situation and your perceptin of them) and impression of "I am so all that as a woman in my own eyes."
I didn't have anybody or anything standing between me and that impression - except my own "willingness" to pursue the sport and perfect it (not my ability to win).
I know someone who really does know me well - that swears "oh, I get it, you were always running rapids and sweepers and having the big O - no wonder you can't get enough of paddling that kayak and no wonder you got so good, so fast!" I smile whenever he says it.....I'm not sure that he realizes how accurate on every level that assessment is.
Erin
quickblade14@hotmail.com
i don't think it's wrong to choose men that treat you and your body with respect. but i also don't think it's wrong to enjoy sex for the pure physical pleasure in it. i don't believe respectful lovemaking and sex for physical pleasure have to be mutually exclusive. i'm someone that wants both and the men i've been with fit that bill. in my 20s i personally tried one-night stands twice, just because my girlfriends kept telling me i didn't know what i was missing. but, i wasn't missing a thing. i MUCH prefer making love to someone i am connected to and feel safe with. in a committed, healthy relationship i can feel uninhibited, kinky and just totally free to be myself sexually. i am a very sensitive person so one-night stands just end up making me feel yukky and unsatisfied. i believe my body is a temple and if i choose to share it with someone i want to know that other person accepts my offer as a gift and a privilege. as my husband says "he GETS to touch my body and pleasure me". i enjoy the foreplay and after-sex breakfasts, snuggling, etc. too much to give that up for just a roll-in-the-hay. there's nothing wrong with preferring just the physical aspect of sex but i don't think there's anything wrong if your preference is to want something more intimate. they are both just preferences so you should just choose what feels right for you, at all levels.
with that said, i thought that's what i was getting when i got engaged to my current husband before he told me he was taking viagra, etc. we had good, frequent lovemaking which was sometimes romantic and sometimes raw and primal. now we're basically just platonic friends. i have felt resentful and betrayed that he didn't tell me that from the beginning but he was embarrassed and afraid to leave me since he knew i enjoyed sex so much. by the time he told me we were engaged and i was deeply in love with him. as i've mentioned before, i had never been in a relationship where we had clashing libidos so i had no idea what a problem it could be, so i went through the marriage anyway.
what keeps me hanging in here is that i love being married to my husband in all other aspects and he is trying to take steps to find out why he has a low libido. he WANTS to change but just doesn't know how to do it. since i started this post i talked to him and he ironically started going to counseling by himself (without me asking) and after asking him to see a sex therapist he agreed and we're looking for someone now. i did tell him i didn't know if i could stay married if things stay the same and that was enough momentum to get things rolling. of course i am doing my own personal counseling to see if i can feel womanly without having sex. i haven't been able to achieve that the past few years but i've never sought help for this specific issue. i hope to report back with some good news someday. i'm sure it will take time though. going through all this is not fun or easy but i made a commitment and i want to know i/we did everything i/we could to save this marriage. if he's willing i'm willing.
i wish you the best and i appreciate you sharing your feelings. as someone who wishes she made a bigger deal of this issue BEFORE getting married i hope you honor your feelings and have the wisdom to distinguish if your problems stem from his low libido, your need to have sex to feel loved, or a combination of both.
these posts have helped me feel better knowing i'm not going through this alone.
hugs,
meels
Interesting. I've been a sea kayak guide since 1999 and I also feel very strong and confident in my boat. Haven't tried the big O while paddling though! To be even MORE specific about my question...can i feel like a sensual, sexual woman WITH my husband? When I'm not with my husband, specifically when we TRY to have sex, I feel deflated. Away from my husband, when I'm working, backpacking, kayaking, hiking, climbing, dancing by myself, with my friends or with my dog, I feel awesome. I specifically feel unwomanly with my husband and after we have unsuccessful episodes that deflated feeling is carried with me too long. After several years of that it has just built up and made me angry and depressed. I don't want to just feel happy and sensual when I am away from my husband.
So, thanks for again helping me to even further clarify the question I need to answer for myself.
Sounds like you're an awesome whitewater kayaker. Psychologically water is a symbol for sex. Interesting how we both LOVE to be in and on the water!
Thanks for your insight,
meels
But, I will take my ICF K1 out into the ocean...and very few do that!
Feelings are a result of situations and your perception of them.
I think part of your problem might just be "acceptance". Not a well understood concept - because you can like and/or hate or anything in between a situation or circumstance or fact and still "accept" it.
Acceptance is just "I don't deny that this fact is real".
I think the fact is...your husband doesn't have the desire physically for sex that you do perhaps because he doesn't equate it with emotional entities like you do.
Most women like sex because of "how it makes me perceive and feel about myself"...they like sex as physical gratification - but it is rare that women can get alot of "just physical sex".
That comes from societal programming, familial upbringing....and sometimes it's never dissected as to what YOU believe and what you think you should believe and thus feel in particular situations.
Men rarely associate the following: fun/dating/sex/commitment/happines/success/security/completion....but notice in there is an action...which is what 'causes feelings". Actions change and cause situations - and the situation "of sex" - is going to cause feelings - all situations do.
Men don't have that "emotional entity correlation" as a rule - and so is "just sex" and if they're unaware, inhibited, or lacking in self-acceptance - they don't know how to enjoy fully the "physical aspect of sex" - because men until they individually want to have an emotional associationw ith it - won't develop one by default of societal expectation.
So I think what might be key here is to realize that "your sex life is just fine by his standards. It meets his needs". In light of that - you are "all taht and then some" sexually in his book.
It's just that you have the emotional associations now of trying to "force sex" and him either rejecting you prior to sexual contact....or attempting sexual completion and not achieving it.
Something to realize there is that is you - trying to get a feeling about yourself - via his action. Like I touched on before. And the risk you run when you "force" or attempt to force someone to do something they don't want t do - is to not get the resonse you want - and that is ging to cause a feeling/emotional association with that person and that act or situation.
I'd come to terms with the FACT that while you don't like it - you do accept it - that your sex drive and his are incompatible by your standards - but not his.
And so you're going to have to seek physical gratification if you insist on getting your full quota - in a method that isn't violating your standards, but does bring you physical gratification. Be that true "solo sex" - be that him being amenable to non-intercourse sexual activity - but either way - you two need to sit down and talk. After you have a good long, introspective look at spcifically "waht the issue is and what potential solutions there are". Remember - spend time equally on the problem and in finding a solution. You don't ifnd solutions focusing solely on the problem.
Erin
quickblade14@hotmail.com
Good for you for getting out in the ocean. I surf kayak in my sparrowhawk but haven't dared joining my whitewater friends in the big waves where they do endos when a huge wave crashes on top of them and then pummeled into the sand. Yet they go back for more and have a great time. They're more like the tsunami rangers which is way too extreme for me. Fun to watch though!
Happy paddling,
meels
No....I'm saying I know factually that the act of sex is not an emotionally "bonding" experience - and waht I "feel" as a result of sex emotionally is based on "my needs, desires, expectations' - not their actions in the act of sex.
You don't need to look into each other's eyes, connect deeply, and any of that other deeper, spiritual, intimate stuff when you're having sex? I don't need that to "get laid" - I enjoy that aspect of lovemaking. But making love is with a partner that i respect and admire as a person and them for me the same...it is not generating feelings based on expectations because of a physical action.
Were you ever like me who enjoys being very intimate and doesn't get satisfied when it's just purely physical? Was ALWAYS like you - till now. Which is why I had the problems that you're having. I had "expectations and assumptions" that sex had an emotonal component for my partner by default of physical action. HAd I communicated that expectation/assumption prior to sex - I'd have often found out that the person did not "bond over or becuse of sex" and I could then have decided whether "just physical gratification" was all I was after.
If so, did you transform yourself from NEEDING intimacy to being okay with just being physical by using a therapist? No therapy...just solo paddling, and 12-step programs, and a requirement to stop "needing" anything I couldn't provide on my own - and finding 'unique venues' to be able to provide myself with what I need. Not talking sexual per se. But the "desire for intimacy" on an emotional level is not restricted to sex. It was restricting it to sex...that had me emotionally attaching inappropriately to people and not emotionally bonding with others.
I don't know if I can change myself from enjoying intimacy but I'd like to hear how you did it since it seems to work for you in your current successful marriage. I appreciate your tips.
Well, we're not married - probably never will be...but that's not the point really. Basically, people are like Pavlov's dogs. You can reprogram yourself to salivate over anything - on command. Because that's precisely waht your deal is with the sex....you think "he wants me sexually, you salivate anticipating the feelings that'll envelope you" - and when he then doesn't wnat to or doesn't perform...you've lost the "potential to create those feelings.
Pavlov's dogs were held behind a gate.....where they could not see the gourmet food. And a bell was rung, the gate opened - the dogs ran for the food and ate it hungrily. Hungry or not....the dogs learned that when the bell was rung, the gate would open...and they would salivate and dash for food. To see if it worked - the bell was rung, the waiting seconds given, the dogs standing and salivating at the gate....which was opened - and no dog food was in the bowls.
The dogs salivated and waited in anticipated because of the bell....not becuase "of the food".
Does that give you any insight into how you program yourself?
I run one of that ultra-skinny ICF sprint kayaks......like they use in the olympics for sprint....Only I go down rivers, and lakes and oceans and thru rapids and sweepers and waves....there no "too far" for an extremist to go!
Erin
quickblade14@hotmail.com
Take care,
meels
Your posts make me almost want to cry because I know EXACTLY how you feel!! I could have WRITTEN your posts. We must be soul sisters or something. I have had 11 lovers in my life but I have never had a one night stand, for the same reasons you posted---I get no enjoyment out of sex with someone I don't have feelings for, someone I feel don't know, that I don't "connect" with. The thought of actual sex with a stranger turns me off. That's not to say I haven't had wild kinky sex, but always with someone I knew, trusted, cared about. I too long for the sensual, intimate, totally "melting" feelings of having passionate sex with someone you truly care about. The thought of just lowering sex to some animal urge seems inconcievable. But yet I see what Erin is saying, by doing that we take away sex's (or lack of sex's) power to hurt us.
I have tried to explain to my low libido BF over and over that it's not having an orgasm that is so important to me, I can do that just fine by myself. (and quicker too, lol.) I have actually told him it would be easier to deal with our lack of a sex life if he was in an accident and paralyzed and UNABLE to have sex with me, rather than him being perfectly able and not WANTING to. I totally know what you mean by the wonderful feelings of having a man "chase you around the room." Like I said in an earlier post our society programs us to believe that "all men want it all the time" and when a man does NOT want it all the time, WE must be the one with the problem---we must be too fat, too old, too saggy, etc. There MUST BE SOMETHING WRONG WITH US.
I think intellectually I agree with Erin and wish I could think like her---but in my heart it is just too painful to give up on the wonderful euphoric feelings of being "wanted and desired by the man you love." Now that I am on the edge of 40 I can look at myself and I feel pretty good about myself as a woman, I am intelligent, kind, thoughtful, polite, respectful, talented, physically strong, good at my job, and getting wiser by the year. I know that I am still attractive, although my 20's are behind me, but for some reason I just simply do not feel like a sexy, sensual woman unless my man has desire for me. I know what you mean when you say your husband is very good to you, loves you, and you are wonderful platonic friends. That is me and my BF to a T. We are "best friends," we love each other's company, we have so much in common we could almost be twins. Our birthdays are even only 4 days apart. I feel in so many ways we are soul mates and I could see myself easily spending the rest of my life with him, and getting married. But this sexual incompatibility is a tough thing to deal with. Since I have been in these relationships before and they always ended badly, it makes me hesitate on whether I will truly be able to deal with this the rest of my life. I've already been divorced because of this, I don't want to be in your shoes down the road.
Let me just say that "taking a lover" is NOT the answer. I did that at one time and while it was fabulous the first few months, it was NOT worth it in the end. There is just too much emotion involved and it gets too messy and confusing and when your spouse finds out, it's a disaster. Please do not follow this route, it might seem like the perfect solution (it did to me at the time) but it is most definitely the road to ruin!!!
I don't know what I'm going to do. I don't know how this is going to turn out. I enjoy reading Erin's advice and will probably read and reread it again. I guess I feel resentful in a way that WE WOMEN are the ones who have to change, WE WOMEN are AGAIN the ones who have to make the effort to think differently. Why is it always up to THE WOMAN to suck it up and make changes in order for it "to work"? Why are the men always off the hook? "boys will be boys," "That's just the way men are," etc.
I wish I could give you a real hug instead of just posting this emoticon. Yes, I can relate to you and I actually have wonderful news to report. I mentioned earlier that I told my husband I needed things to change otherwise I didn't think I could stay married to him and unbeknownst to me he had been doing some sex therapy on his own without telling me. Because his ED was stemming from his confidence problem he felt the need to learn how to become a better lover on his own. He said it finally sank in after years of me telling him I couldn't teach him or explain to him what I meant by making love on all levels. Even though I can recognize and sense when someone is a sensual lover I was in no position to give lessons because I never learned it anywhere. I was just born this way for some reason.
Anyway, despite his resistance he found a therapist, followed some advice, read some books, and has been doing emotional, spiritual and physical exercises to become a better lover. He finally approached me a few nights ago by just looking at me and paying attention to me in a different way and I asked him what was going on because it was not like him to be so sensual. He actually was looking me in the eyes and staying focused on me. This was a big deal since this was not like him. I was very wary because I had built up such a wall after years of feeling rejected. He told me what he'd been doing, including these exercises which included meditation and channeling chi (energy) to his testicles and sperm and on his own he discovered what I meant about experiencing sex on a spiritual, energetic level. I was blown away but still wary.
It took me a few days before I was receptive to actually make love to him and then it was great. We both cried a lot releasing years of hurt and resentment. I am still in a bit of shock that this change happened in him but I'm so appreciative. He thanked ME for pushing him to a level of intimacy he had never known and was scared of. We're still taking things slow but both of us feel so much lighter and I feel so much like myself.
And, how did this all happen? A few months ago I told my husband I was seriously thinking about divorce and I asked him to tell me honestly if he could make love to me the way I wanted. I didn't ask for it to happen every time. I just wanted a balance of spiritual lovemaking and quickies. Since I couldn't explain to him what I meant by spiritual lovemaking I asked him to find out for as well as find out why he was so scared of more intimate lovemaking. He was so mad at me that I wouldn't teach him but my attempts of explaining and showing him kept failing. My experience has been that when someone understands making love on a soul/spiritual level they just get it. You don't have to explain anything. If people haven't experienced it they think you're talking a foreign language. I was mad at him for not learning on his own and he was mad at me because I was "holding out information" from him. We were at a standstill and I thought we were through. I finally told him that I wanted him to find out for himself what intimate lovemaking meant and after he had a better sense about how that was different from just having sex I wanted him to be honest with himself, then with me, about whether or not he wanted to be that type of lover. If he did want to be that type of lover I told him I'd hang in there. If he decided he just wanted to stick to physical sex then I wanted a divorce. I didn't want him to just say "yeah, I'll do what you want". I wanted him to KNOW what he was agreeing to and not just just do it for me. So, he did his homework, and in the beginning he said he wasn't sure if was interested in intimate lovemaking but after he pushed himself to learn more he surprisingly became fascinated with the idea and now he's like a star student craving for more. He also had a good therapist that challenged him and broke through his fears of intimacy.
Now he understands why he needed to find out on his own and in his own way. He approached his "education" in a totally differently way than I could have imagined. He's now teaching me things I didn't know. My education has been personally on an intuitive level. No books, no teachers, nothing. I appreciate now that he's teaching me some things and that he WANTS to teach me about meditating together and creating a flow of chi between us. What he's learning is what I wanted but I didn't know there were names and techniques for those things.
He has been doing these exercises for over a month to become aroused without ejaculating. For him it was important to have this confidence to become and stay erect. He hasn't been using any drugs which he is thrilled about but I assured him that it was still okay if he felt like him needed to use them occasionally. He has so much confidence right now that he feels like he won't need them at all. He now believes the drugs were just a crutch. It's like he's "in shape" now. The books he read are something like: "Sexual Reflexology", "Multi-orgasmic man", and "Sex with Spirit". Something like that. He also got some videos on tantric sex. He decided it was time to stop being timid and unconfident and he WANTED to become a good lover for me and for himself.
So, jezibelle, I hope you don't "settle" for having a purely physical relationship if that doesn't satisfy you. And, I hope your partner can learn about and enjoy the type of lovemaking you desire. I hope my story gives you hope. I swear to you, I was SO DEPRESSED and ready to get divorced. My husband, also 40 like me, had NEVER been interested in anything besides physical sex before. It really felt like a hopeless situation. I feel like we just experienced a miracle. I'm still in the "pinch me I'm dreaming" stage but I'm really happy, not just fake happy, for the first time in a long time.
It's so funny that this all happened when I was feeling desperate enough to submit my question to this board. I haven't really prayed in a long time but maybe it helped just putting the energy out there to ask for help.
Hang in there jezibelle,
meels
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