We can't help ourselves. Please, help us
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| Sat, 06-28-2008 - 3:27am |
I searched all through the archives and couldn't find something to help me, so I am going to post here.
I have been dating my partner for about 20 months now. We were friends for a couple of years before starting a relationship. We dated for about six months, and things were very stable, healthy, etc. I found out, at that point, that I was pregnant. It was completely unexpected and had been prevented, so it was a huge surprise, obviously. He was very supportive of me and tried so hard to help me cope with it (this was a bigger blow to me than him, at first). The relationship didn't suffer immediately - we decided that we would raise our child because neither of us advocates abortion/adoption in this situation - we had sex knowing the risk was there, KWIM? We had been close anyhow and had a good friendship to stand on. But that isn't enough. About five months into my pregnancy, I started feeling very resentful and depressed. At the time I didn't realize it, but I do know. I was very suffocated, I felt that I was giving up everything I wanted. It was a very traumatizing period for me. I don't have family where we live now, and most of my friends have dispersed throughout the country (we are college aged - I am 22, he is 23). So I relied on SO for most of my support throughout the pregnancy. He never delivered at the level I felt I needed and a huge ball of problems thus ensued. I always felt guilty asking for more because given the situation, he's treated me very well and has been a stand up man - maintaining a steady job, providing, coming to all dr. appt, etc.
But our relationship has been suffering for the better part of it's duration now. I had a somewhat negative birth experience and that, coupled with the stress from our relationship, led to severe post partum depression and anxiety issues. I realized this a couple of months ago (our DD is five months old now) and have been engaging in therapy since. This has been extremely enlightening and helpful for me, but it is shedding light on our relationship in a very uncomfortable way.
I am a driven person. I appreciate the world and like to be an active member in it. I seek out companionship, knowledge and fulfillment. I like to be engaged. SO is just the opposite. The only thing he cares about now is working. All the time, working. He has not a single interest. He could care less about anything other than working (well, to be fair, he cares about family, his daughter, me.) But insofar as life beyond the spectrum of daily living, he's completely apathetic. He works, comes home and watches television, and that is his life. He feels completely fulfilled (or so he says) by this routine. I can't stand it. It is more and more clear that we are very uncompatible in our life directions. Before, we had been on the same page. But the introduction of a child has changed us both. I am so fed up with trying to lead a fulfilling life with a partner who would rather engage in staring at a television than anything else.
I am starting to realize, through my own soul searching, that this is a stifling relationship. He is no longer someone who possesses qualities I enjoy. He's very passive in his world approach. He truly believes that if something is meant to be, it will happen, regardless of what you do or don't do. I find this thinking to be juvenile and debilitating. I do not wish to be in a relationship with a man who needs to constantly be reminded to fill out insurance forms, call about a job offer, etc. It's very offsetting to feel like I am mothering a 23 year old man.
He has only one friend whom he spends any time with, and he is not emotionally close to this man. Or anyone, honestly. He doesn't create intimacy with anyone. His father is a very stubborn, stoic, rather rude man obsessed with working in order to keep up with the Joneses. My SO was never like that before (or maybe I didn't see it) but he is becoming that way. I do not value these things, or these traits. I want to have a partner with whom I can engage in lively conversation at least once every few days. Someone with whom I can find joy in everyday living, rather than allowing my life to be suckled away by the boob tube.
We have ventured to this many times. It never ends constructively. I feel more and more like I should not be with this man. I care for and love him, but it feels wrong. If we didn't have our beautiful daughter, I would leave. And that's the catch 22 - if we hadn't had her, perhaps our relationship would have progressed more naturally and we'd be okay. We were both rushed into growing up quickly. If we separate, I couldn't afford to live alone right now. My family is all 1200 miles away, and I can't bear the thought of taking his little girl so far away. I feel like we owe it to her to try everything else. We both grew up with single mothers, and my heart aches thinking our baby girl will live the same life. I want to give her the stability and love that myself and SO weren't able to receive. I want her to grow up with loving parents who are examples of positive interactions and communication. I feel like there is a glimmer of hope because we are both coming at this with the desire to succeed.
But I don't know how to fix it anymore. We see a counselor 2-3 times a month, but the expense is heavy on top of my own personal counseling. And 2-3 hours a month is hardly enough time to fix a problem so urgent. I am fighting a daily dilemma in deciding whether I should stay or go. I really need some perspective from an outsider. I am very open to insight and suggestion, I just don't have the ability to separate myself from this situation.
Is it worth trying to salvage this? Is he really behaving childishly, or am I expecting too much? Are we just so different that there is nothing to be had of this?















"He was very supportive of me and tried so hard to help me cope with it (this was a bigger blow to me than him, at first). "
"So I relied on SO for most of my support throughout the pregnancy. He never delivered at the level I felt I needed and a huge ball of problems thus ensued. I always felt guilty asking for more because given the situation, he's treated me very well and has been a stand up man - maintaining a steady job, providing, coming to all dr. appt, etc."
Do you see the contradiction here?
Do you see the contradiction here? You say that your boyfriend has been very supportive, tries as hard as he can, has treated you very well, etc. But in the same breath you say he didn't "deliver" at a level that you needed. What do you think that he could have done more of to support you than you have already described here?>>>
Yes, I do see the contradiction. I guess what I am saying is that, in his own way, he is doing what he thinks is supportive. I recognize that this is what he feels is supportive, but I also recognize that it isn't the sort of support I need. Do you see what I mean? He is giving in one way, but it's not the way that helps me. Him coming to dr appt's wasn't very helpful because I really wanted a partner, not just a tag a long. He never asked questions or ventured to learn anything about what I was experiencing. He's never taken time to even ask ME questions about our daughter, or to ask for help or advice (since I only work 3 days a week, I am the primary caregive right now). I don't feel that we are a team in this parenting business. I feel like he is leaving all the decisions and research up to me. Not blatantly telling me "i'm not going to do it!" but he wouldn't do it on his own. I feel like with a child involved, parents have the responsibility to step up and learn about things going on and happening with their children. He would rather just do things the way his mother tells him. Or if I approach him with an idea, he just says "do what you think is best" without any input. It feels like he isn't interested in making an effort to learn anything here, and that is why I feel he isn't supportive enough. Does that make it clearer at all?
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I don't mean that I can't accomplish what I wanted to. I, more with time now, still feel confident that I can go on to pursue what I have envisioned for my life. I am not feeling sorry for myself, at least in this regard. What I AM feeling is that he is going to be dead weight. Before our daughter was born, he had aims of continuing his education, moving into a secure career, etc. Now, he is content to stay where he is and, in his words, "just wait for something better to come along." I don't know WHY it infuriates me so much. I feel like it is irresponsible to take such a passive role in the direction of ones' own life. It is almost as if he has no idea that the right job is not going to just fall in his lap without any education or experience. I feel it's just him giving up on everything and commiting to settling for this "just getting by" lifestyle. I can't respect that. Maybe I am looking at it all wrong. I am just relating to you how it affects me.
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Let me be clearer. I don't in any way think that leaving this man will revert my life. I feel it would be a great struggle afterwards and I feel I would have a lesser chance of leading the life I would like my child to grow up in. I don't hold him responsible for all of my emotional turmoil. I do have a lot of contempt for him, you are right. I can't pinpoint why exactly, but I can think of some things. I feel overwhelmed. I feel suffocated. I feel like I am doing most of the work with our house, our child, and our finances. I work a full time job as well, in addition to taking care of our house. He was raised in a family where the women serve the men without complaint. He is more compassionate than his father and grandfather, but he still acts like a teenage boy. He is a very messy person with no sense of urgency (lets the baby sit in a diaper for a few hours, lets the trash overflow while trying to stuff more in). I know some people are able to look past this, but it really irritates me because on top of what I am already doing I have to tell him what to do or he'll just sit in his chair all day and watch tv. He can't even take five minutes to fill out insurance papers or call back about job offers. He's regressed. When we were friends and first dating, he was living alone. He kept his affairs in order. Now that I am here, he has slowly ceased taking care of things. He doesn't even practice good hygiene without a gentle reminder. It's very stressful and it disgusts me to feel like I have to direct him. If I don't then I just get frustrated with him. If I let him just "be himself" and sit around all the time, I don't feel like being around him because I am so annoyed. This is what I mean by him being sooooo laid back and childish. He is basically taking the role of child and I mother. I don't want this role. I don't know how to get out of it. I feel that this is just his personality and I don't know if I can live with a man who can't master the art of self motivation. It's too much strain.
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You're right, we aren't able to spend much time together. There is only one night a week which neither one of us works. That day is usually reserved for spending time together as a threesome so our baby gets quality time with both of us together. We did go out once a few weeks ago. I would love to take time here and there as just a couple. There's not a whole lot of options around here, or maybe I am just not creative enough. This is going to sound bad, but when we are alone, there is nothing at all to talk about. Because he has nothing at all going on beyond the tv, he has nothing to add to any conversation I try to start. I guess I am just bored. He's not a stimulating person anymore. Maybe he wasn't before either, but we had more to talk about because we had more time to do things. Now with the baby, I still maintain a few minutes a day to watch the news or read something so I can stay fresh. He just doesn't care anymore. His apathy makes it hard for me to feel connected. I think this is actually the crux of the problem - we don't have anything to share with each other. He with holds from intimate conversation and I crave it. I don't know how ot surmount this.
As for him being happy, no he isn't. We've both admitted that we aren't really happy anymore, that it saddens us, that we don't know how it happened or how to fix it. We're on the same page there. I DO take his feelings into account, very much. If I didn't, it would mean nothing to me to uproot and take our daughter a thousand miles away so I could be around family. His feelings are very important to me. But he is so stoic lately, and withdrawn, that I am just lost. I don't know how to go from here.
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Thank you, I will look at this tonight and bring it up later this week. I believe I said in my OP that I feel we owe it to our daughter, that's my whole reason for asking for help in the first place. WHy do you keep putting quotations around enlightening? Is it a mockery of the word? Do you feel like I misused it, or did so with bad intent?
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I don't understand the slightly patronizing attitude you've taken on in this post. I didn't come in expecting anything. I have truly hit a wall in my situation and rather than acting rashly or with poor judgment, I am seeking help and outside perspective. I didn't come expecting to be coddled but I certainly don't think anything I said warrants patronizing either. I am making a sincere effort to overcome these hurdles with the resources I have available. I don't think it's very kind or helpful to talk down to someone who is admitting "hey, I can't make a sound judgment here, give me some perspective." Either you have taken me wrongly, or I you. Either way, I appreciate the time you took in responding to me. If you feel something is flawed, would it not be more helpful to point out the flaw? Did I miss that?
I'd also like to mention that asking for an objective view seems like my last chance here. I can't spend my time with my psychologist focused solely on this - I have some very intense PPD/PPA to deal with and it generally takes a good part of my time with her to work through those issues. I came here in what I felt was a near last ditch effort to find help. Is this not a good thing to do?
<<<"Is he really behaving childishly" - this is the best example of that. How is he behaving childishly? >>>
Because he relies on me to do everything. He has taken the passive, non objectioning, non intervening role in life. He has no initiative to involve himself in daily upkeep of our home or himself. He waits for everything to come to him, rather than putting in the effort. Even when faced with our relationship problems his answer is always "give it time, it will get better." This is very immature to me. It's the old "let's sweep it under the rug" routine. That works with petty things. But in our situation right now, that isn't hte way to handle these problems. He may have strong work ethic, but this is all he focuses his energy on. Once he punches the time clock, he expects...or rather, allows, everyone else to take care of him. There are days he comes home from work (he's a cook) and not taken a shower for almost a day after. That's fine and well...but I can't be intimate with someone whose hygeine turns me off. His does. He won't do anything for himself. It's just really irritating. I think that is childish. Maybe I chose a bad word?
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I can see why he's driving you nuts, even if, as americajin says, he's doing his best.
I have a few thoughts, none of which will solve your problems, but may help you gain some perspective.
1. The two of you really didn't know each other very well before you conceived. I realize that there is no way to undo that, but around the time when you would have been assessing how well you matched as a couple, you were distracted by the beginning of your pregnancy. He actually did show you the kind of person he was at that time by coming to your appointments (doing what was expected of him) but not being engaged in the experience. He's still doing that because this is who he is: a non-inquiring mind without a wish to learn.
2. His father and grandfather established for him the pattern of what married men do: they go to work, and after work they do what they wish. The wife takes care of the rest. He would have to have a curiosity about how his life could be different, and a willingness to try something less comfortable than what he's already doing, to want to step off that traditional path. Regretably, that's not the kind of man he is.
3. He doesn't like this situation any better than you do, but he has far fewer mental and emotional resources. He is doing what he knows how to do (go to work, come home, be faithful, try hard), but he knows it's not enough for either of you, and he can't figure out how to fix it. Consequently, I think, he's depressed. This is probably situational depression (I'm not a clinician, but that's what it sounds like), and your family doctor can help with that. Once he's feeling better, you may see an improvement in his hygiene and his willingness to be involved, but you probably won't see a lot of change in what he regards as appropriate interaction within the marriage.
The thing is, Gina, if Josephine hadn't come along you would probably have broken up with her daddy months ago because you're not a good match. I know that's not what you wanted to hear, but it's true. I hope you will keep posting here so we can give you support, and continue to focus on your own issues in therapy in order to become as strong and clear as you can. I think the next few months will give you greater insight into what you need to do.
I dont know if we are allowed to post on these threads or not. But it seems like others have, so I will too.
I posted a similiar thread here not too long ago. ITs not that we didnt know who the person we with with was before we had these babies. Its that the issues in raising these girls changes us. We either persevere or we revert back to what is comfortable for us.
For your BF and my DH, its sitting infront of the TV pretending the world is also standing still, so therefore thier abscence isnt affecting anyone.
It is.
So we are left pondering if life can either get back to the prebaby normal, or if we can live with what normal means for us now.
I dont think I can deal with "right now" enough to stay. But leaving seems so scary.
I hope I didnt hijack your thread. I just wanted to say that I get it, and its a real issue. ITs not you being ungreatful...like was previously implied.
Good luck hun.
If you wanna talk, you know where my e-mail buttin is LOL.
*Praying for my best friend, my Dad*
&n
Gina - I think what you're experiencing is very common.
Welcome to the board daelaria,
You've already gotten some good input... I just wanted to add some thoughts....
Would he read anything with you?