what is up with that?

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-29-2004
what is up with that?
39
Sun, 08-29-2004 - 3:07pm
I have a wonderful boyfriend. He is charming, giving, caring, considerate, kind, funny, smart, and the list goes on. He treats me and my family like gold. Let me give you an example.

My daughter had to move out of her house one month before she could move into her new house. So, he told her she could live in the house for that month. This included her, her dog and her baby. It meant moving things around, baby things, toys, dealing with two dogs, etc. You get the picture. Let me give you another example.

I was unemployed for a very long time due to an automobile accident. He made sure that I didn't have to worry about finances. He took care of me. You get this picture too?????

I have a terrific relationship with his family. I send them all birthday cards, and buy them all christmas gifts. I always go with him to see his parents; I call his mom when she is sick. He has a huge family dinner each christmas and since he's working I decorate the house, and prepare for this big event. I call everyone and ask them what they want for christmas; (kids, etc.) I do most of the housework and do most of the errand running as well (well, since I'm not working, it makes sense.) He is always there for me and my grown children and loves my grandaughter to death.

He works very hard. He has two jobs and is a consultant on another job.

Now you know there is a "but"

Here it is: We have been together going on 6, yes SIX years and he doesn't think he's ready to live together. Simple as that. His reason? He feels he has financial stability and that my financial/employment record is shaky. I was employed at a major university for years before my accident, but things have just happened since then.

I have my apartment. He has a huge house. He wants me to spend most of my time at his house. He wants me to plan changes to his home. Example: he wants to put his office in the house and wants my help doing this.

I am constantly running back and forth from his house to my apartment. He stays at my apartment maybe two nights a month and that is only from about 9 in the evening until 6:30 when he has to go to work.

We (every year) have a huge garden together at his house and I work very hard there. Then I come home and I need to work hard here (I am a plant nut) and I live in an old victorian and it's on a main street and gets dirty. Even when I'm not here. I know, I am rambling.

So, after 5 1/2 years, this wonderful man is scared to death to have me move in with him. He has asked me to respect his reason about the financial aspect and that he can't help feel this way.

Our families are very much "together" and it feels weird that he feels this way. My children can't understand it and neither can I. He really doesn't want to talk about it. When I bring it up he gets very nervous and/or angry.

What is up with this????? HELP?

Pages

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Sun, 08-29-2004 - 4:14pm
First, do you have substantial debt? If you do, it may be that he doesn't want that to impact his financial stability. That makes sense to me and if that's the case, taking care of the debt by getting a job would eliminate that concern. Of course your working would mean that you could not continue doing his housework, and his response to that would be very illuminating. Second, why are you asking to live with him instead of marriage? It sounds like you are performing all the duties of a wife, and he is in many ways performing the duties of a husband. If it's not an issue of debt, it may be an issue of commitment. But if he won't talk about it, get a job requiring you to reduce the wifely benefits and see if he still treats you like gold.
iVillage Member
Registered: 08-29-2004
Sun, 08-29-2004 - 4:21pm
YA, I think it is a matter of commitment. I don't have "unusual" debt. I think what bothers me is that he says he is not sure of "me"? or "it"? yet. I am not saying that I haven't asked about marriage. I have very specifically told him that I DO want to get married. Oh,,.... did I mention that we are NOT teenagers? We are both in our LATE fifties?

Ya... what IS up with that!!!

Thanks so much for your input..... feel free to input more:-)

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Sun, 08-29-2004 - 5:14pm
He's "not sure" after six years and at your ages??? I think he is sure, he is sure that he doesn't want commitment - and it's not about you or anything you're lacking. He doesn't want commitment with anyone. He wants the benefits of commitment, but not the responsibilities of it, especially the financial part of that. The way he has it now, he can leave at any time, if ever he wants to be with someone else, or simply wants to be single - without having to part with a single dollar. He wouldn't even have to ask you to move out. He gets to keep it all, and he gets your help and efforts to increase the value of his property as well. That could be why he gets angry when you bring up the topic, even if he isn't fully aware of the reason himself.

It's possible that you may be doing all this nest-building for him and another woman in his future - have you thought about that? He may be the most wonderful guy you've ever known in all other ways, but this is just as important as his other qualities. And honestly, if you hadn't been in need early on, if he hadn't poured on the charm, would he have been able to get all that he has from you without stepping up to the plate - after a couple of years at most? Don't you think you might have placed more value on his providing a place for your daughter than it really warranted? It was only for a month, and that's not much of an investment when the return is six years of your devotion. Your help has enabled him to work several jobs, amassing an ever increasing nest egg - for HIMSELF only.

I don't think he's necessarily set this up with nefarious intent. But I'd certainly have my doubts in your situation. I do think that if you stop the nest-building on his place, and spend a lot more time at your own place, job or not, you'll find out what's really up with him.

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-26-2004
Sun, 08-29-2004 - 5:41pm
Men are strange animals when it comes to money. They have this "my money" attitude, especially if they have been divorced before. Get yourself back on track career wise and financially and don't be his free "rent-a-wife", then maybe he will appreciate what he has. Men today expect women to be the perfect 1950's housewife, yet a career woman of the 21st century bringing home a paycheck too. We're supposed to be able to raise the kids, run the house, take care of the finances, hold down a well paying career and still have time and energy left over for some dynamite bedroom fun.

Put yourself first. Your children are grown and you can do whatever you choose. Once your own life is in order, all the other stuff will take care of itself.
iVillage Member
Registered: 08-29-2004
Sun, 08-29-2004 - 6:30pm
You are right. He doesn't want commitment. And you are also right about my daughter. I am placing too much value on that. I was the one who was there the whole time while he was at work, and I was the one doing all the "housework" related to it. I DO have my doubts. Others have suggested that he may have another woman waiting... but with all his jobs I keep telling myself it would be almost impossible. But, nothing is impossible is it?

I wonder if there is a way to begin this conversation with him without him becoming "scared"... or edgy or just plain pissed that I've brought it up again. Is this the time for an ultimatum? My kids think so.

One thing I forgot to mention. He is very needy. And... he is insecure. HIM... insecure about me. If I tell him I want to spend time at home, my home, he takes it that I don't want to see him. My apartment is very small. And we have a golden retriever together, so him coming here is a little uncomfortable... physically. He is 6'7". I know, I sound like I am making excuses, but I'm only thinking of reasons why "I" feel that it's uncomfortable here for him.

It really is a mixed up mess. He does something good and it feels good and then I think of my doubts and I get stomache aches all the time. I am very, very stressed about this. Oh, and he's a psychologist to boot.

Keep talking... this is extremely important for me to hear. Many thanks!!!!!

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Sun, 08-29-2004 - 7:03pm
Well one of those jobs could BE another woman, but that's just speculation and wondering about it will only sidetrack you in how to deal with his unwillingness to commit to you.

Hand him an ultimatum (for marriage not living together), only if you are prepared to follow through on it immediately. Who cares if he gets angry? You won't have to be subjected to it for more than a few minutes because you'd be out the door for good - that's what following through on it means. If it scares him away, that's the same answer isn't it? Is there something more going on here? Are you afraid of his anger for your safety's sake?

Don't you realize that it's manipulation when he pouts and says that you "don't want to see him" simply because you need or want to spend some time in your own place, a place he insists you keep? Don't you think it's more likely that while you're away from his home, he's not getting the benefits of what you provide while you're there? It really sounds like that's the source of his "neediness", not that he's insecure about you wanting to be with him. Everything you've done for the past six years says different let alone the fact that you want to marry/live with him.

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-29-2004
Sun, 08-29-2004 - 7:30pm
I never thought of that. I know that he can be manipulating; I sometimes call him on that. But it is true. When I am not there, he's got NO help! Like today; my daughter left yesterday, and I came to my apartment last night. He was very moody on the phone and said he was overwhelmed when he saw how much needed to be done at his home. Outside and in. I stayed at my apartment and did my gardening thing here. I know he didn't like it.

Then just today, he called earlier this evening and said how tired he was and that he had to take tomorrow off to get some work done for one of his consulting jobs. He whined about food shopping and that he didn't know when he would be able to get to the store. I didn't say a word.

He really dislikes his dad. But you know what? He did not fall far from the tree!!! Things that piss him off about his dad - - - he does the same things!!!!!

No, I am NOT afraid of him at all. Nothing like that. He wouldn't dream of frightening me or hurting me in any way. It's just that when I think of the conversations around this subject my feelings always get hurt. That's the only thing that I am wanting to avoid. But of course, they just may get hurt once again.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Sun, 08-29-2004 - 8:26pm
I know that this is very hard for you and I feel your sadness. I have an idea that you may want to consider. Since you're dreading bringing up the commitment issue with him one more time, why don't you try it another way. Stay at your place for an entire week, don't go over to his place even once. Tell him you need some time to yourself. Don't let him guilt you into going over there, don't listen to his whining about the work that has to be done - get off the phone fast when he does that (oops, there's something burning in the oven). If he gives you a hard time tell him you'll hang up and that you'll refuse to take his calls if he can't be considerate of your needs.

I'll bet anything it won't take long for him to ask you what's wrong (Honey, did I do something to upset you? Why won't you come over?). That's when you tell him that you needed some time to think about why he doesn't want to marry you, etc. You don't have to worry about initiating the discussion because his query does that for you. If he gets angry, all you have to say is "There you go again and you wonder why I don't want to see you." Put the responsibility for his anger right back where it belongs - on him. Because up til now you'be been allowing him to make you the one responsible for his anger. He's an expert in pyschology, a master manipulator. Two can play at that game, and it's time to turn the tables and take control of the situation.

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-27-2004
Mon, 08-30-2004 - 11:45am
i'm coming from the other end of the spectrum. i kinda know how your guy is feeling. i have been seeing my bf for a little over 2 years. he's just like yours, took care of me financially when i needed help, families adore each other, etc. he has been begging me to move in with him and can't understand why i won't and neither can his family.

i refuse to live with him until we're married, and i refuse to get married until i am able to support myself. i don't want to be dependent on someone else to take care of me. we used to spend virtually every night together, usually at my place. and lately i've been backing off, staying overnight on just the weekends. he respects the way i feel for the most part, but he'll bring it all up again every couple of weeks, and its not something i want to discuss. i know what i want and i'm not going to give in to his pressuring me. i'm not afraid of commitment, i know i love him and want to spend the rest of my life with him, just the time isn't right for me.

as badly as you want to live with him/get married, step back and evaluate the situation from his perspective. respect the fact that he's not ready, and if you aren't willing to wait until that point comes, then maybe its not meant to be. use this time to get YOUR life in order on your own. i'm not saying that you don't, but i think every girl should be able to take care of herself well and not be dependent on anyone. spend more time with yourself, make him fend for his own dinner, or eat with him and then go home.

make sure that you sit down and talk with him and have the same goals in mind. if he doesn't want to get married ever and you do, then as bad as it hurts, you have to accept that fact and either take it or leave it. if he plans on it one day, but just doesn't feel right yet, then decide if you're willing to wait until he's ready. i hope this helped. good luck!

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-29-2004
Mon, 08-30-2004 - 2:19pm
Thanks. I will do that. I have tried to stay here before, and it takes him all of one hour to ask me what's wrong. He won't leave me alone until I tell him. If I say something, whether or not it is regarding this issue or something else, he does the "thing that he does"... which is: "didn't we have a nice weekend together? where is this coming from?"

I have been telling him one thing has nothing to do with the other, but he just doesn't get it. Oh... yes he does. I can be so naive. This is just one form of his manipulation with me. I recently called him on this, and he quickly changed the subject.

I really like that part about putting the responsibility of his anger right back on him.

You are so so right!! Thank you.

I think I will need to do this soon. This is just too stressful. I hope I can do this without him making me feel guilt though.

Pages