what am I to do?

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-17-2004
what am I to do?
9
Sat, 01-17-2004 - 11:04pm
Wow this is a first for me! But I guess I am feeling in need of some good advice not from friend or family. I have been married for 15 years together for 17. Very happy or so I thought. About three months ago I found myself questioning my husbands feelings. I don't know I could tell when he kissed me something was different.So I asked him if there was something going on that directly affected our relationship. He finally said he didn't think he loved me any more. Oh he loved me but he was not IN LOVE with me. He said he had been unhappy for quite some time and was sorry he never said anything before this. He said he was confused and didn't know what to do. So i proceeded to fall apart and a few days later read a letter he wrote to me explaning his feelings ( he has a hard time with any form of confrontation) Basicaly, he had a few complaints from the me leaving hair in the shower drain to not enough sex. he said again how sorry he was to have let his feelings go unknown tome for so long and now he feels nothing for me empty inside as he put it.I am still in shock. In our 15 years of marriage we have never had a real fight. Oh there have been small dissagreements but nothing major. He has always been the best husband a women could ask for he would do anything for me and was alwasy very affectionate. about four years ago our home burned down. Things were very difficult for awhile but we put all of our energy into rebuilding and now have a beautiful home.I have two daughters from a previous marriage which he raised with me they now are 27 and 23. I know he has issues with them but he has been very tolerant until latley. I know this is alot of information but I am trying to give you an overall picture. About two weeks after this all came out I found his cell phone bill acutally it was an accident I was looking for something else and It fell out of the cabinet. Well needless to say I was shocked there is a women in his band (he has a band with his brothers , not his source of income but he is a very talented musician and enjoys playing.Anyway apparantly, He has formed a cell phone relationship with this women. I counted the calls and it was125 that month!!! He swears they are "only friends " But come on that is a little to much. Well I went to a councelor and he gave me some advice which I have been taking But there have been many ups and downs. things are good for awhile and then I get another bill and again 80 to 90 calls a month. We recently went to florida and we had a great time but come to find out that even while we were away he called her 11 times. I have gone back on his bills without him knowing it and found out that he didnt start talking to her until 2 months before he told me he was unhappy. he continues to say he wants to try and work things out but things are bad now.you know the not talking to each other except to say how was your day you know everyday stuff. It got bad about four days ago when he stopped saying I love you again and calling me during the day just to say hello so I asked him whats wrong. He said that for the past two months that he has been "TRYING" but it was all for my benefit not the was he was truly feeling. He said it was easier for me that way. What I believe is that he made it easy on himself not to see me in so much emotional pain.But yet he still talks about the furure as if we have one. He confuses me every day with his talk about our retirement plans our finishing our upstair bedroom he works on it every chance he gets. It's driving me crazy!!! What I guess I dont understand is if he wants to be with this other women why doesen't he just go she is not commited to anyone and he could be with her. He just keeps saying he is confused and needs time to sort things out He did say yesterday that he wants to go to see someone a therypist or someone like that to help him out.He insists that this women is only a friend and she is telling him to try to save our marriage. I don't believe it for a moment. But I do love him very much we have had a goood marriage until now and I am so confused I want to scream. If this was one of my friends I would tell her to face reality and move on but it is different when you are in those shoes. Anyway I am sorry for babbling but there is alot of backround to this story and more I didn't say but thats basicaly the story Am I crazy to want to try?
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-02-2003
Sun, 01-18-2004 - 1:50am

hugs honey...to answer your last question - no, i don't think you are crazy to try.but you BOTH have to really try. IF he really wants to save the marriage - then he has to go with you to therapy.


i don't know if this woman is just a "friend" or more than that. its hard to tell. but he IS putting alot of time and effort (at the least) into this "friend" ---- time and effort he should be putting into the marriage.


an important point that you bring up is the lack of "fights" and the fact that he cannot deal with any kind of confrontation. which means that in 15 years of marriage he never asserted his feelings, requirments, etc because he couldn't. probably worked both ways. and I guess for you it meant - as long as the marriage is working - its ok. it looks like your husband needs more emotion and was not getting it from the marriage. something like that.

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-17-2004
Sun, 01-18-2004 - 12:11pm
thank you for your response. Just a bit more backround on my husband. He grew up in a household of yelling and fighting. He always said he never wanted to be like that. But I think there is a difference between not yelling and screaming and not saying anything at all.I believe you CAN talk about what is on your mind without it turning into a blow out.I guess what I am having the most trouble with is that he refuses to give this other women up.How can you say you want to work things out and notchange the behavior of talking to another women as many as three or four times a day! although in the middle of december when i found out that he called her 11 times while we were away I left for a night. I left him a note saying that I would not share him with another women. The next day he told me that he would limit drasticaly his conversations with her. He said he loved me and loved our life together and wanted to try. Well I got the next phone bill he changed the format with the phone company not to list a discription of the calls. when I called the phone company they told me I was not to recieve any information on the account whitout the account holders permisssion well that was new. So yesterday I went online and downloaded his bill. he called her 70 times last month! 3 times on new years eve. But yet he made love to me that night! What is he thinking? Is it so wrong for me to ask him to give up this relationship with this other women? actually I said they could still be friends and if she was a good ear i didn't have a problem with him talking to her once in a while but NOT three times a day! After getting that phone bill yesterday I just want to give up. But I love him so much and we have had a good life together that is a hard decision to make.Most times I feel manic. One moment I want to say I love you and please dont go and the next moment I want to say get out of my life and stop hurting me!! It is just too much of a coinsidence that he was happy until two months before he started talking to her. I know we need help in the communication department but i have always been open to talking and he has not. He has told me that over the past five years I have hurt him with things I have said but I didn't know i hurt his feelings because he never said anything. I have said I was soooo sorry If I ever did that and would try to never do it again. I believe it is one thing to hurt someone and not know it but it is completly different when you are doing something you know is hurting someone else and you choose to do it anyway.He is choosing to have a relationshhip (On whatever level it is) even though he knows it is hurting me! It seems that the man I have been in love with for the past 17 years is gone. Some people who have gone through this say OH he loves you or he would be gone by now. don't worry this thing with her will pass. I'm not so sure. He is the type of person that always has done the right thing. always followed the rules of life. If he was at a store and recieved 5 cents too much change he would give it back. that is why I am having such difficulty understanding what he is diong now.My therapist thinks it might be some sort of a mid life thing but I just don't know anymore. I want to go to couples counceling but he said two days ago he wants to see someone alone. I guss i think he would not be as honest without me there ( I mean about his connection to this other women) I think if he told the truth about how much he talks to her the therapist would tell him it IS unacceptable to have that much contact with someone outside the marriage. It hurts my feelings that he can talk to another women about us and not talk to me. Anyway, thanks for listening. If you have any more insight into this mess please reply . Thanks
iVillage Member
Registered: 01-17-2004
Sun, 01-18-2004 - 12:23pm
one more thing, Do you think I should confront him with my knowledge of the bill situation? the changing of the format of it and the request to the phone company of not giving me any information on the account and the 70 calls last month when he told me he was going to LIMIT the calls to her? I just don't know how to handle that. Thanks
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-02-2003
Sun, 01-18-2004 - 1:16pm

if he is willing to go to therapy -then let him go. for now - drop the phone issue, you are obsessing over it (and of course i understand why -but you are focusing on that one issue, instead of the "big picture"). let him go to therapy, and hopefuly he will learn to open up to you and say the things that he wants to say.


give it time. 'going to therapy'

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-14-2004
Sun, 01-18-2004 - 1:42pm
Let me first start by telling you that I have never been married so take this opinion with whatever weight you’d like to.

Your husband is treating you very unfairly. Though his relationship with this woman may not have become physical infidelity he is definitely treading on dangerous ground emotionally. What could he POSSIBLY have to say to a woman that isn’t his wife 3 times or more a day?

I would never advocate scrapping 15 years of marriage. But what he needs is a reality check. He needs to be reminded of what he has, because he’s obviously thinking about greener pastures. The two of you must have couples therapy. If he wants to speak with someone alone, he can arrange that as well. But I firmly believe that to work through a joint problem you have to attack it jointly.

It sounds to me like you’re suffering here mostly because you can’t understand his behaviour and his new way of thinking. You’ll forever agonize over it if you don’t sit together in a room with an arbitrator and force some honesty. I was in a lengthy relationship with a man like this. I call them imploders. Since they aren’t big on confrontation they just repress and repress and repress until something like this happens. Someone give them a completely non-confrontational more fun outlet.

This ‘other’ woman is a detriment she needs to disappear. The only way for that to happen is for him to realize how divisive she is. If she had his best interests at heart she wouldn’t encourage calling with this level of frequency. And he may only come to see that when he hears it from the impartial voice of a doctor.

I’m not sure about the phone bill investigating you did. I’m not sure if being honest will help or harm. I suppose you should just assess how open he used to be with the bill. Was it something he would just toss on the table or not care about? Or even better is it something that is paid for out of a joint account? Maybe your therapist would have better insight.

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-04-2003
Mon, 01-19-2004 - 3:45pm
I'm going to be blunt so forgive me -

::He confuses me every day with his talk about our retirement plans our finishing our upstair bedroom he works on it every chance he gets.

Him being *friends* with her is giving him an emotional connection, outlet that allows him to go through the motions of being with you. Working on a creative project is giving him something to do when he's with you and gives him a chance to think. I say these things because it doesn't sound like he's sharing with you the things he's sharing with her on the phone.

::What I guess I dont understand is if he wants to be with this other women why doesen't he just go she is not commited to anyone and he could be with her.

Because he's afraid. Afraid it won't work out, afraid to walk away, let go, move on, yet, he can't give up his connection to her either.

::He just keeps saying he is confused and needs time to sort things out He did say yesterday that he wants to go to see someone a therypist or someone like that to help him out.

Then tell him it's time to make the appt and follow through.

::He insists that this women is only a friend and she is telling him to try to save our marriage.

In his mind maybe she is just a friend. But if she was seriously telling him to work it out with you, then seems to me she wouldn't be taking his calls anymore - that's just my personal opinion and one that if I was in her shoes, would do myself.

Print this out for him to read:

Is it ‘just friends’ – or emotional infidelity?

Even though there’s no sex, you still could be unfaithful, marriage counselors warn.

By Kim Campbell

In the minds of many, the definition of marital infidelity is pretty straightforward: If you have a sexual relationship with someone other than your spouse, you’ve cheated.

But marriage counselors are adding more gray to that definition by identifying non-physical ways of being unfaithful – such as forming attachments that rob a spouse of emotional intimacy.

These aren’t the bonds forged on a “girls’ night out,” but rather those formed between two co-workers who, for examples, share everything – their aspirations, their marriage woes – and keep the extent of their friendship a secret from their spouses.

“If you are skimming off the aspects of your inner life…and reserving them for your ‘friend,’ you are cheating your spouse of intimacy,” says William Doherty, a professor of family social science at the University of Minnesota.

Some experts have gone as far as to call this a new crisis of infidelity – one that is changing the way gender relationships are viewed. T hat’s the position taken by the late Shirley Glass, a researcher and family therapist whose last book was published earlier this year, before her death.

Glass found it wasn’t just thrill seekers or those unhappy in marriage who are prone to emotional cheating. “The new infidelity is between people who unwittingly form deep, passionate connections before realizing that they’ve crossed the line from platonic friendship into romantic love,” she wrote in “NOT ‘Just Friends’: Protect Your Relationship from Infidelity and Heal the Trauma of Betrayal.”

Today, there are greater opportunities for intimate relationships to form between men and women and for the boundaries between platonic and romantic feelings to blur, she and others argue. Changes in the work force have brought more women into offices at all levels, and the Internet has made it far easier to quickly form bonds with strangers.

In both cases, it can be easy to meet someone and suspend reality. On the Internet, a contact can become a romanticized ideal without faults. And, in the office, an intriguing co-worker can seem more exciting than a spouse with whom you have to pay bills and fix plumbing.

“An emotional affair to me can be as damaging as a sexual affair, because an emotional connection is what people really want,” says Rona Subotnik, a marriage and family therapist in Palm Desert and author of books on infidelity, including Internet relationships. The workplace is a particularly fertile ground for cheating, experts say. By some accounts, the office is replacing the local pub as the place where men and women meet – and cheat.

About 8 mission to 10 million new relationship are formed annually in offices, according to Dennis Powers, a professor of business law at Southern Oregon University in Ashland and author of the 1998 book “The Office Romance.”

That figure is for singles entering relationship, but the same environment might easily influence those who are married. Working closely together on a project, for example, can be enticing, as can simply being around someone every day who shares similar goals and aspirations. An “emotional affair” tends to involve sexual attraction – even if not acted on – and secrecy on the part of a married participant, therapists note. It can be difficult in the workplace to realize an emotional affair is developing, says Doherty, because there’s usually not a big event, like a sexual encounter, to signal that you’ve turned a corner. Even so, not everyone believes that interaction between men and women in the workplace spells disaster. “The mere fact that a person has friendships from work by itself can’t be considered unethical. The question is where it crosses the line,” Powers says.

Some observers note that the issue of emotional affairs is prompting new rules for gender relationships, but not everyone thinks more rules are the best idea. Laura Kipnis, author of the recent book “Against Love: A Polemic,” questions whether it is right for one partner to control another’s autonomy or intimacies too much. “To what extent is it ethical…that their movements or associates should be restricted to appease my own anxiety or insecurity?” she asks.

For her part, Glass offers a framework for separating home and work relationships, noting that fidelity is about maintaining appropriate boundaries. Among her suggestions: discuss relationship issues at home, don’t lunch or take private coffee breaks with the same person, discuss your online friendships with your partner, and surround yourself with friends who are happily married and who are committed to the idea of fidelity.

From “NOT ‘Just Friends’ ” by Shirley Glass

WHEN FRIENDSHIP CROSSES THE LINE

Has your friendship become an emotional affair?

1. Do you confide more to your friend than to your partner about how your day went?

2. Do you discuss negative feelings or intimate details about your marriage with your friend but not with your partner?

3. Are you open with your partner about the extent of your involvement with your friend?

4. Would you feel comfortable if your partner heard your conversation with your friend?

5. Would you feel comfortable if your partner saw a videotape of your meetings?

6. Are you aware of sexual tensions in this friendship?

7. Do you and your friend touch differently when you’re alone than in front of others?

8. Are you in love with your friend?

My best to you.


Carrie

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-05-2004
Mon, 01-19-2004 - 4:47pm
Your husband doesn't know what he wants or what he's doing. THis could go on for literally years. You could be confused for a very long time. YOU are having to deal with HIS uncertainy, his ambivalence, his wanting it both ways.

The phonecalls to the other woman are absolutely over the top. Doesn't matter if he "technically" cheated on you. He cheated on you.

I wouldn't stand for this and my guess is it will stay just like it is, maybe for years. Meanwhile, you're tearing your hair out. See a lawyer and get a legal separation. Tell your husband he has to leave. Force him to make a decision. Protect yourself, your kids, your financial assets, your mental health.

You will wallow in this mess -- or you will take action and force some results. Do the latter is my recommendation. Good luck.

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-17-2004
Mon, 01-19-2004 - 4:53pm
well thank you again for writing back . Unfortunatly, I did not receive your advice before I went off the deep end. I wrote him a letter as not to get upset in front of him he hates that. Basicaly, I told him all I knew about the phone bill how he changed the format, called the phone company and told them not to give me any information and how he called her three times on New Year's eve ect. I made it very clear I was not going to share my husband with another woman. I told him I wanted to try everything I could to save our marriage,but I did not believe we stood a chance of doing that unless he discontinued his current relationship with her.I told him to make a choice. His relationship with her or a future with me.I told him the lying and deceit had to stop. I was very angry at the time I wrote the letter and said that I will never believe she is just a friend. He never said anything about the letter I left the house before he came home as not to be there when he read it. I came home about 2 hours later.what he did do is sleep in another room last night. I am scared I blew it. Tonight he is having band practice she will be there. Should I try to talk to him or just leave it alone should I say I am sorry for loosing it? I am so confused. Part of me is glad I am finally letting him see that he can't treat our relationship like this and part of me is so desperate to let him see how much I love him and want to work this out whatever way we can. HELP!!!
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-20-2003
Mon, 01-19-2004 - 6:53pm


It is very passive- aggressive of him to ignore your letter and not talk about the problems in the marriage. Talk to him about making that therapy appointment. It is time to get this stuff out in the open. You are not asking for too much from him.

It may get to the point where you will have to make the move to leave. He will just exist in the marriage indefinitely without having a real relationship and communicating.