What IS Love, anyway?

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-02-2003
What IS Love, anyway?
14
Wed, 12-03-2003 - 1:40am
Three years ago I came out of a very abusive relationship that was extremely difficult to leave. It was not my first failed relationhsip, nor my first abusive one. I am considered very attractive and have always been attracted to, and approached by, the Macho-Ego Bad-Boy types of men. After I left this past abusive relationship I was completely drained and devastated. I knew I had to spend some time alone to regroup and reevaluate what love really is, so I spent two long years alone, on purpose, in order to heal emotionally. It was one hellish rollercoaster ride of healing, let me tell you. I truly loved my ex and fully intended to spend my entire life with him, but I would not, could not, live with the abuse. He was a very financially stable man, but for the sake of my own safety, I walked out with practically nothing, leaving many of my own heirlooms behind, and started all over from scratch. I found out quickly you don't just lose the man you love, I also lost my beautiful home, thousands of dollars worth of furnishings I had picked out, my lifestyle, my routine, and literally everything that had become familiar to me. It was too overwhelming and painful to even put into words.

I have now met a man I will refer to here as L, who is truly wonderful. He is the real thing. He is calm, kind, sincere, focused, caring, loyal, and has tons of integrity. I have known him almost a year and I have never even heard him raise his voice. He is wonderful to me and my family, and puts me first, always. He is a true gentleman. chivalry is definitely not dead, altho I truly thought it was. He is very well educated and very successful. He is unbelievably supportive. He takes care of me when I am sick, he sends me flowers for no reason, he shares everything with me, and he is just simply an amazingly sweet, undemanding, good hearted man. Still, something is missing. I am still not happy. Maybe I lived with drama for so long that something calm seems abnormal, I don't know. I walk around wondering, *Where is all the fiery chemistry?* I know, I should feel so blessed to have someone so kind in my life and I do, but like I said, I still do not feel any fireworks, just a calm, caring feeling. Is that normal? Is that what love is? I am not even sure what real love is anymore. I know this man wants to marry me, but I also know he is afraid to ask me because he isn't sure at this point that I am ready, and he is right.

Let me explain a little about him. He was married for 18 years to a woman who was his first sexual experience. He was completely faithful for their entire marriage. She had been sexually abused as a child, and he said altho she was very sexual while they were dating, the minute they married she hated sex. She told him she was taught that was what you do to *get* a man, and now that she had him she no longer needed to play the game. He was always respectful of the fact that she had been abused, so for 18 years he said he tip toed around sex, feeling her out to see if she was receptive or not, and most of the time she wasn't. Then, after 15 years of being a SAHM raising their two kids, she went back to work and within one year of that, announced to him that she had missed out on life, was tired of being a wife and mother, needed to find her independence, and asked for some time. It broke his heart but he agreed, and she left him and the two kids, and moved into a house with a girlfriend. He put the kids into counseling to help them deal with their mothers absence and raised them alone for 3 years before she finally ended it by filing for divorce and then got remarried to a man she met at work. This tore L apart. He began to facilitate divorce recovery classes at his church and didn't date again for two more years.

Now, about us. First, let me say that he does not believe in casual sex, so we didn't even become sexually intimate for 4 months. he believes that if you become sexual right away all that sexual chemistry will take over everything and you may find yourself in a relationhsip in which you have nothing else in common. He believes it is important to build a relationship first, then introduce sex into that already loving union. Did I mention he is very level headed and has a lot of integrity??? ;)

Here is the problem, and I truly hope I don't sound vain or silly when I say this. I am in my 30's, and I have always taken very good care of myself and have always gotten more than my share of attention from men. It has been very odd for me to be with someone who is not *gung ho over the top* after my body, if you know what I mean. This man is soooooooooooooo sweet, and when we do have sex it is AMAZING, but that's *when* we have it, which isn't very often. I asked him how he became so skilled at certain things with a woman who never wanted sex for 18 years and he said that's because when he did finally find something that pleased his wife he made sure he mastered it, in hopes she would want to be pleased more often. LOL (well, it worked, let me tell ya!)

But he never seems very passionate, like he can't wait another minute to have me or anything like that. I just can never tell if he is even excited or not, so I asked him about that too, and he said for the most part he was conditioned for 18 years not to be sexually aggressive around a woman. This is very hard for me. There are so many things he hasn't done. I was his first sexual experience in a swimming pool and his biggest fantasy is to have sex in a hot tub. He went out to the lake one night with me and my friends and we all stripped down and jumped in the lake. He followed suit( or no suit, LOL) and thought he was at some wild party, LOL! I'll admit it has been fun watching him have new experiences, but still, something is just not right. We only have sex about once a week at the most and he isn't aggressive at all in approaching me about it. He shows no passion at all and THAT is the hardest part. I can't tell if I turn him on or not, and he says that is part of his old conditioning, as well. Whew, this is not easy. It's been a year, is it ever going to change or is this just the way he is?

I do care for this man, but I think because of my past I am very mixed up as to what love is and is not. I even looked it up on the internet and found a site about lust junkies, those people who are hooked on that first time high/chemistry you get when things are new and the sex is so hot and so frequent. I think that might be me. I'm like that, very much. Anyway, the article said that this kind of chemistry always fades and what you are left with is a true like and respect for the person, if you are lucky. The article said people who build relationships on chemistry usually don't end up with relationships that last. True? False? I do not feel that wild chemistry with this man, he is just not the wild chemistry type. But he is the type who will be there to hold my hand and look into my eyes when we are old. I do feel a huge amount of respect for him, and I do care about him very much as a person. I tell him that I love him, and I wish I knew if that were true. I do know I trust him, and I do not depend on his moods to decide if I am happy or sad. I am truly my own person around him, where in the past, in more chemistry laden relationhsips, if the guy was upset, then I was upset. If he was happy, then I was happy, etc. My total existence was dependent on his mood of the moment.

I just don't want to make any more mistakes. I know this is a good man and honestly, it's not him I am afraid of, it's myself that I fear. I do not want to lead him on and then hurt him. He deserves someone who will cherish his love and I wouldn't ever want to end up marrying him, then suddenly feeling some strong chemistry with someone else and feeling all that fire and desire and leave him or be tempted to have an affair, because then I would deny myself in order to remain loyal, but I would also be miserable, wanting someone else. Boy, am I mixed up or what???

Sorry this was so long. Thanks for listening!

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iVillage Member
Registered: 06-20-2003
Wed, 12-03-2003 - 2:02am
Are you my lost soul sister? Seriously, I see a lot of similiarities between the two of us based on your post. I must ask though, have you ever been in therapy to get to know yourself better, your motivation for you actions, and to heal all the wounds you have experienced? Of course, this is a typical relationship for people like you-even if it seems different. You are attracted to people who have serious issues, and it's highly probable that you want someone to make you "long" for them (longing...as in...drama, uncertainty, hurt, etc.), and that is why you don't feel completely sure. If this is an aspect that has always been in your life, of course you are going to think something is wrong if it isn't there. But it is here- just not like you're used to seeing it. Your instincts are telling you that, but since this is a new situation, you can't pinpoint it. If you want to talk more about this, you can email me (mizzemily@earthlink.net), but I think it's imperative that you get some therapy at this point. Your habits and patterns haven't been broken- they have just been disguised.
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 12-03-2003 - 8:15am
First of all I don't think practice is relevant to whether you're a good lover with someone new - if you're a caring open person you can be an amazing lover with anyone. In contrast, I think lots of practice can make a person cocky and presumptuous about his/her talents and jaded about the connection between sex and love.

I think you're focusing on the wrong thing here - you do not seem to have chemistry with this person - nothing to do with love and I think it is a fruitless exercise to ask anyone but yourself what love is - you can ask whether a certain behavior is loving but what love is - different for different people - and none of it will resonate with you, is my guess. to me love means being inspired to give to the other person (and giving) and being able to accept that person's giving to you and to be able to be vulnerable with and to the other person. Chemistry is what makes the difference for me between platonic and romantic love. If he doesn't do it for you, he doesn't - yes it could be that only bad boys do it for you - or it could be that you are confusing "nice" with assertive - would he let you walk all over him? Not very sexy. I also don't think chemistry has anything to do with what you're doing physically - it's whether you 'want" the contact - the contact is usually not going to produce chemistry unless it was there already - then it can enhance it.

I have to say - your post screams out to me - why didn't you have all those material things for yourself if you wanted them so badly? What kind of career did you choose - what kind of financial savings plan did you have - why did you set things up so that all those material things came to you through a man - I wouldnt mention this if you didn't emphasize how much you hated leaving that lifestyle behind. If I wanted that lifestyle - fancy things and vacation and a fancy home - I could have them on my own right now because I've worked my butt off for years and from nothing made sure I am financially comfortable for years to come - my goal for the $$ is to be a stay at home mom. I do understand that it's hard to leave being a couple - believe me - but take it as a sign - that maybe it's time for you to create the lifestyle you want for yourself not expect it or seek it from a man or a relationship.

I'm not asking you to answer those questions here just to think about it.

many women settle for relationships without chemistry in order to be in a stable marriage - I could not - you have to decide whether you can. Good luck.

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-02-2003
Wed, 12-03-2003 - 12:05pm
Thank you, you are so right and believe it or not, my major in college was psychology. LOL

After the abusive relationship I did receive counseling from a therapist trained in DV issues, and it did help. I never told her everything though, and I'm not even sure I could ever really open up about everything to someone. I think that I figured for so long that being a psych major who intended to become a therapist, I should be able to counsel my own self, that I felt silly going for therapy. I am the one whom everyone else comes to with problems, how ironic is that? I have been thinking about going ahead and getting counseling and I am realizing that it might be a very good idea in light of all that I have been through.

You are right on with what you said about missing the *longing* feeling from a relationship. That makes SO much sense to me. Thank you so much for your insight. :)

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-05-2003
Wed, 12-03-2003 - 12:15pm
A good pshrink knows to go to a good phsrink to help themselves with their problems, for allot of the same reasons anyone goes to see a pshrink it is often good just to talk things out with a third party and work things through.
iVillage Member
Registered: 12-02-2003
Wed, 12-03-2003 - 12:25pm
I agree with many of your points, thank you. I won't go into a long post to answer the questions, since it would involve a very long explanation concerning the type of abusive man I was married to before, etc. so I will just say that I do have a very financially stable career and I did have all those things for myself, but I had to leave them behind for safety reasons. When you're married (at least in my state) assets are equally owned, no matter whose name is on what, and the court decides in the end, who gets what. I could have battled it out and left with a large chunk of assets and money, but because there was a lot of assets and money to be divided it was going to be a long drawn out court battle with many appeals and continuances........he was going to make sure of that. I have one friend involved in one right now and it's been two years of postponements with no settlement as of yet. In the midst of all of this was the abuse issue and my safety. I could not file for a protective order because we worked in the same business, making it impossible for me not to have to see and interact with him on a daily basis. I figured it was better to leave with my sanity and my safety than to chance the alternative, so that's what I did. I moved to another city and started all over. In hindsight I sometimes wish I had called his bluff, but we all know where hindsight gets you......

Your points about chemistry and love make sense. I feel the same way, I think I would just hate to find out that this is not the man for me because I have dated a lot of guys and I know from experience that men as kind and easy going as him don't come along every day.

Thank you for taking the time to reply to my post. :)

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-04-2003
Wed, 12-03-2003 - 1:07pm
First

:::I think that I figured for so long that being a psych major who intended to become a therapist, I should be able to counsel my own self, that I felt silly going for therapy.

Don't let that stop you in your progress of knowing and loving yourself. Even GOOD therapists know when to seek help.

From reading your post, I kind of get that this man is the total opposite of everything you've ever experienced. It's calm, sure, and steady. As far as missing the passion and fireworks I would say either the two of you have some sexual compatibilities issues OR you are so use to the attention to your body and sex (the drama of previous relationships that revolved around your body) that you miss it to some degree, because that is what you use to measure your self-worth as a woman, being attractive, desirable, wanting to be wanted, to validate you as a woman..... AND if his conditioning has *programmed* to be passive sexually, then it won't change unless he wants it to, if he's willing to work on it, and demonstrate what he wants when he wants it, namely you in bed (sounds like incompatibility to me).

Something to think about.


Carrie

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 12-03-2003 - 1:24pm
I think kind and easygoing are wonderful qualities to have - I could have been married several times over to men who had those qualities but who I was not attracted to/didn't have good chemistry with - I have learned the hard way not to hold on to a man just because he has a list of qualities I am looking for, if there is no spark there.
iVillage Member
Registered: 12-02-2003
Wed, 12-03-2003 - 1:26pm
You're right, I have always been used to that and I realize that may be part of the problem. This is a man who, while he is as appreciative of a womans physical beauty, chooses to look on the inside first and just isn't the type to be assertive, forward, or make suggestive comments very often. Sometimes he does blurt things out, and then he will apologize as if he has just crossed a line. I always tell him not to apologize, that I like his appreciation of me. That was never welcomed in his past with his ex and he says he doesn't ever want me to feel he objectifies me. He is such a considerate man, always so thoughtful. I think in time, when he knows he can truly relax with me, he will slowly start to open up more and more in that area. He has already opened up a lot just in this past 10 months that we have been together.

I understand love is different things to different people, and I know that ultimately I will have to be the one to decide if what I have with this man is my definition of love, and I do agree that I should probably seek some counseling to know myself in a deeper way before I make that decision. The abusive marriage I was in took a huge toll on me in so many ways that it is no doubt downright silly of me to think I can heal completely without any help.

Thank you for your reply.

:)

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-02-2003
Wed, 12-03-2003 - 1:45pm
Excellent point, Deena. Smart girl. I was actually a CL here for a long time on another board so I have cruised the other village msg. boards a lot since some of our boardies end up other places, etc. and I have seen your nic and read your posts and replies to people before. You seem like a person who has her goals firmly set and who knows what she wants. Good for you, that is something to be proud of! Don't stray from those goals, you should go far and do well.

My best to you.

:)

Avatar for northwestwanderer
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 12-03-2003 - 3:06pm

Your scenario is straight out of the book "Women Who Love Too Much".

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