What would you do?
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What would you do?
| Mon, 04-26-2004 - 11:30am |
This is a long one but thank you to those of you who care to read! I really need some advice!
Ok I've been in an off again on again long term relationship with a guy for three and a half years. The first two were great, we got along most of the time, but were a little younger and not ready for serious/marriage type committment. At least I wasn't! Things started going downhill and I just felt like even though our connection was still strong, I just wasn't getting what I needed out of the relationship. So I ended it and think I hurt him badly. Don't sympathize with him yet! He hurt me plenty too! He, being the immature boy he is (one of the things I love about him by the way) decided to start seeing someone new right away (even though he hasn't had a history of that "can't ever be alone" thing) and actually got engaged! six weeks later.
That was about a year ago, and they stayed together a lot longer than i thought they would. However we never really could let go of each other. A couple months after the engagement, he was calling me and coming over. No we didn't do anything, I wouldn't allow it! But he did start asking me why I left him and later said of the engagement he just needed something stable. So a couple months ago we saw eachother, it was around his bday. I think he was sad that I wasn't going to be there for this one. Anyway we started things up again, yes still engaged. But for three months he was coming over a couple times a week. Then they break up (she breaks it off) and he's all excited to tell me. I tell him (i lie) "what you think that makes me happy?" we end up still sleeping together but allowing ourselves to "see other people" Now I wasn't trying to be mean when I said that, I just know that he really needed time on his own and I didn't want to start up a relationship between us when he'd just come out of one. Especially being engaged for almost a year.
But I loved spending time with him cause it was getting a lot sweeter. We started telling each other we still really loved each other and without realizing it all my feelings for him came back bigger and better than ever. But we were still "seeing other people" So I'm out at a bar and I see him with some girl that he dated when we had a short break up years ago. It triggered those memories, and I was jealous I admit it. It really didn't help that I'd been drinking too and I yelled at him. He got mad (rightfully) but he had been over my house the day before saying all these sweet things and then acted sorta funny when he saw me at the bar, kindof ignoring me which hurt my feelings. Anyway we didn't talk for almost a month. He tried calling me two days later but I hung up on him and I tried calling him twice after that and he never called back. Now we're getting up to the present. Last week he calls out of the blue like nothing has happened and says he wants to see me. I agree, yet through mutual friends I know he's started up something again with the ex-fiance, however she doesn't have the ring back. So he comes over the next day and we both say its best if we're just friends, and know we can't really hang out cause we can't keep our hands off eachother. He's about to leave and then we have sex. It's really true we can't keep our hands off eachother. We alomost did it the day before when I went to say hi to him at work. Anyway I had been struggling with telling him how I feel about him since I told him I didn't care that he and the other woman broke up. I kept wondering should I just tell him that I still really love him and want to work things out or should I let him get over the latest breakup.
Well I decided to tell him the last week, right after we had sex. I told him the whole story that I lied about how I felt when he and the other woman broke up, and that seeing him with someone else made me jealous, and that I would be willing to work things out. Then I sortof gave him an ultimatum , which I hate to do but just couldn't be torn up inside anymore. I told him if that's not what he wanted I couldn't see him. I didn't tell him in a mean way or give him a time limit or anything. Well here I was thinking he would be calling me the next day, and now it's been a week and no word. The last thing he said before he left was that he loves me. I slipped the other day and called him. Yes even after my "ultimatum" (why I hate to give them!!!) If you're still reading this THANK YOU I know it's long. But I really would like any advice. should I really take that as a straight up NO and move on after three and a half years or should I take this as a "mulling over" period. He asked me again last week why I left him in the first place and I never have a very good answer for him. I just tell him it was a mistake. But there were reasons, he damn well knows what they are, I just don't want to get into it with him. I know we'll just fight and it was so long ago. I know if we really get back together there are issues we'll have to discuss. Our connection is still SO STRONG and I don't really want to let that go. I really think he could end up being the one if we get all this straightened out. I've never loved anyone like I love him. Should I pursue it anymore or just wait and see?
Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ok I've been in an off again on again long term relationship with a guy for three and a half years. The first two were great, we got along most of the time, but were a little younger and not ready for serious/marriage type committment. At least I wasn't! Things started going downhill and I just felt like even though our connection was still strong, I just wasn't getting what I needed out of the relationship. So I ended it and think I hurt him badly. Don't sympathize with him yet! He hurt me plenty too! He, being the immature boy he is (one of the things I love about him by the way) decided to start seeing someone new right away (even though he hasn't had a history of that "can't ever be alone" thing) and actually got engaged! six weeks later.
That was about a year ago, and they stayed together a lot longer than i thought they would. However we never really could let go of each other. A couple months after the engagement, he was calling me and coming over. No we didn't do anything, I wouldn't allow it! But he did start asking me why I left him and later said of the engagement he just needed something stable. So a couple months ago we saw eachother, it was around his bday. I think he was sad that I wasn't going to be there for this one. Anyway we started things up again, yes still engaged. But for three months he was coming over a couple times a week. Then they break up (she breaks it off) and he's all excited to tell me. I tell him (i lie) "what you think that makes me happy?" we end up still sleeping together but allowing ourselves to "see other people" Now I wasn't trying to be mean when I said that, I just know that he really needed time on his own and I didn't want to start up a relationship between us when he'd just come out of one. Especially being engaged for almost a year.
But I loved spending time with him cause it was getting a lot sweeter. We started telling each other we still really loved each other and without realizing it all my feelings for him came back bigger and better than ever. But we were still "seeing other people" So I'm out at a bar and I see him with some girl that he dated when we had a short break up years ago. It triggered those memories, and I was jealous I admit it. It really didn't help that I'd been drinking too and I yelled at him. He got mad (rightfully) but he had been over my house the day before saying all these sweet things and then acted sorta funny when he saw me at the bar, kindof ignoring me which hurt my feelings. Anyway we didn't talk for almost a month. He tried calling me two days later but I hung up on him and I tried calling him twice after that and he never called back. Now we're getting up to the present. Last week he calls out of the blue like nothing has happened and says he wants to see me. I agree, yet through mutual friends I know he's started up something again with the ex-fiance, however she doesn't have the ring back. So he comes over the next day and we both say its best if we're just friends, and know we can't really hang out cause we can't keep our hands off eachother. He's about to leave and then we have sex. It's really true we can't keep our hands off eachother. We alomost did it the day before when I went to say hi to him at work. Anyway I had been struggling with telling him how I feel about him since I told him I didn't care that he and the other woman broke up. I kept wondering should I just tell him that I still really love him and want to work things out or should I let him get over the latest breakup.
Well I decided to tell him the last week, right after we had sex. I told him the whole story that I lied about how I felt when he and the other woman broke up, and that seeing him with someone else made me jealous, and that I would be willing to work things out. Then I sortof gave him an ultimatum , which I hate to do but just couldn't be torn up inside anymore. I told him if that's not what he wanted I couldn't see him. I didn't tell him in a mean way or give him a time limit or anything. Well here I was thinking he would be calling me the next day, and now it's been a week and no word. The last thing he said before he left was that he loves me. I slipped the other day and called him. Yes even after my "ultimatum" (why I hate to give them!!!) If you're still reading this THANK YOU I know it's long. But I really would like any advice. should I really take that as a straight up NO and move on after three and a half years or should I take this as a "mulling over" period. He asked me again last week why I left him in the first place and I never have a very good answer for him. I just tell him it was a mistake. But there were reasons, he damn well knows what they are, I just don't want to get into it with him. I know we'll just fight and it was so long ago. I know if we really get back together there are issues we'll have to discuss. Our connection is still SO STRONG and I don't really want to let that go. I really think he could end up being the one if we get all this straightened out. I've never loved anyone like I love him. Should I pursue it anymore or just wait and see?
Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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As for not keeping your hands off each other, that's a crock. Each person is responsible for their decisions, actions, behavior - YOU wanted to sleep with him and HE wanted to sleep with you. Both of you gave in to your desire and made the decision to do it, period. It was within your control at all times. You had numerous reasons not to sleep together, but tossed them out the window on 'chemistry' and doing exactly what you wanted to do in that moment.
:::He asked me again last week why I left him in the first place and I never have a very good answer for him. I just tell him it was a mistake. But there were reasons, he damn well knows what they are, I just don't want to get into it with him. I know we'll just fight and it was so long ago. I know if we really get back together there are issues we'll have to discuss. Our connection is still SO STRONG and I don't really want to let that go.
So basically you are not telling him because you are afraid it will end the currently relationship you have with him. You are lying to him by omission. Why not tell him? Clear the air.
If you got back together with him, how long would it be before you started doubting the relationship, doubting if he was still talking to or seeing his ex-fiance or some other girl, doubting that things have been fully explained and expressed? How long before you wonder if he would cheat on you like he cheated on his fiance?
If you are willing to settle for sex, chemistry, and a strong connection, WITHOUT commitment, then continue on the way you are. When you are ready for more with the right person, you will value yourself enough to draw the lie and set a boundary with him. You will have a lot of grieving to do when this relationship is really over. Grieve for what might have been, for what could have been, for what you hoped would have been.
I'm sorry you have to go through this. I know it's painful.
Carrie
I never meant to claim that I had no repsonsiblility or lack of control over myself when I said that we couldn't keep our hands off eachother. Of course I wanted to, as did he. And I can't say I regret it either. And you're right maybe I'm not bringing up past issues cause I don't want it to interfere with what we have now. But that is just rediculous of me I hadn't thought of it that way. And I'm not really lying to him I just thought he knew why I left him because I told him when I did it. I had a response on another board that really helped she said maybe he doesn't really know why. At least maybe the explanation I gave him at the time didn't satisfy him. I hadn't thought of that either. I don't really know how to go about telling him NOW and I wish I had come to this board last week and could have told him when he brought it up!
Also setting boundries like you said is important. I thought I was fine with the way things were but I changed my mind when we started getting more serious again. Honestly when we first started talking again I wasn't thinking ahead for the long term. I just enjoyed being with him. And I didn't really know what was going on with him and the fiance because I didn't ask. I found out later that he had been wanting to break things off with her but felt bad because he made a committment to her too quickly (I told him that all along) and didn't know how to tell her. That may be a lame excuse but if you knew him and his history it makes perfect sense. Not that I think it was right of him to cheat!!!!!! We've talked several times over the last few months how strange this is for both of us. Our relationship was once a very committed one and it was strange to just spend time with eachother on a very different level. But that is the boundry I set with him. So we weren't boundryless as you say because there are many types of boundries. He tried to get back together with me in the beginning and I said no. I wasn't ready, and I was afraid he wasn't ready yet either. Of course the issue of trust is something that will none the less come up in the future and maybe that's enough reason to just let the whole thing go. Again thank you for responding.
One more thing, I just wanted to bring up the comment that you made about how much I do or do not value myself. I see this in a lot of these boards, just because someone is in a sticky situation in a relationship, or because I slept with someone that was involved with someone else, does NOT mean I don't value myself. If a girl does it repeatedly and it becomes a pattern in her relationships she probably does need to work on some self esteem issues as to why she keeps setting herself up for failure. But I find it to be a backhanded insult on these pages and innapropriate to be thrown around by people that don't really know the full situation or are trained in this area. Be careful who you say things like that to because, while some people really do need to hear it, there is a certain way to do it and can be very hurtful and counterproductive if not done right. The girls on these pages need support and helpful advice, not the "cold hard truth" as you see it. After reading a short message trying to peice together details I don't see how anyone here can really see the "truth" to any situation. Don't be so quick to judge.
Carrie
I only mentioned something because it is my opinion that these boards are not a place for judgement. How can you give advice to people when you are judging them? Telling someone that you KNOW that they are worth more than the treatment they are recieving is one thing, but telling a perfect stranger that they need to value themself more is just silly! People are quick to judge when something about a situation triggers them. It only makes sense that your are relating this situation to yourself in some way. Did you get burned by a cheater? Were you the one being cheated on? Does it make you feel better to think that the woman your man left you for or had sex with has low self esteem? Just don't take those feelings out on anyone else. I could be completely wrong and I don't pretend to know anything about you. I was just trying to open your mind. Have a great day!!!
You really want to get involved with a guy who cheats on his fiance and jumps from one woman to the next? You two have too many communication problems and bad history to have a healthy relationship. Learn from this and move on.
This is what I said:
If you are willing to settle for sex, chemistry, and a strong connection, WITHOUT commitment, then continue on the way you are. When you are ready for more with the right person, you will value yourself enough to draw the lie and set a boundary with him. You will have a lot of grieving to do when this relationship is really over. Grieve for what might have been, for what could have been, for what you hoped would have been.
You stated you want more. The way to get more is to set boundaries, keeping the lines of communication open, going to counseling together if you really want to work on the issues that led to the break up in the first place.
Having his cake and eating it too, isn't about you - it's about him - him sleeping wtih two women and having two women's affection. It doesn't mean he has the best of either of you, but he was having sex with both of you, he feels wanted by both of you, it boosts his ego. He likes the attention.
I have no issue with sex without committment. If both parties are happy with the situation and it works for them, then everything is fine. However, your post indicates that you are not happy with the current situation and you want a change. At first you wouldn't sleep with him, so for a time, sharing wasn't ok with you either. Then at some point it became ok with you (as I said, if this fits your values, lifestyle, morals, etc. then it is ok, perfecly ok). Yet your first post made it sound as if it was no longer ok with you.
While becoming self-aware, lots of emotions are stirred up - needs vs wants vs desires. It's a process that brings you to where you are at any given moment. A beautiful process and I do not judge that process even if it is different for everyone.
Carrie
1. We are not professionals
2. You are not paying for this advice
3. What do you expect from a message board
4. We only give our honest opinions based on our experiances
If you judge "strangers advice on a message board" so carefully, why don't you judge your cheater boyfriend just as carefully! With him, your judgement flew out the window! He can do no wrong! He can cheat, etc...hope he won't bring you a little STD "gift"!
You keep going back to my post in regards to this situation. I only wanted to make you aware you were sounding judgemental but thank you for continuing with your advice. It's true, I do want something more from him now, so I told him, and I haven't slept with him since I told him. In my first post I said I told him after we had sex last week. I had been thinking about it before that. And I'll admit I kept changing my mind on where I wanted this whole thing to go, which made communication a lot harder between us. But like I said, I don't regret anything that's happened and I don't feel badly about anything. I came on this board to get fresh perspectives from people that can look at my situation objectivly as I can't, and I have had several helpful thoughts from other people. You are probably right about him getting an ego boost from having sex with two woman, but let me just clarify that that went on for a very short time. Most of the time that we were sleeping together it was only he and I. And that is not really the issue I am concerned with I guess. I don't care if he has his cake and eats it too, if he's got cake of course he's going to eat it haha. I didn't ask him not to at that point. She may have been misled but if you ask me she was lying to herself getting engaged to someone she barely knew. I'm not excusing his actions but as I said before if you knew him and the whole situation which I am not going to get into it makes sense. And it doesn't bother me if he has an added boost to his ego, in fact we're all entitled to one. You talk about it like its a bad thing. Like its bad that he's getting attention. What you don't understand is that I'm not mad at him for anything, I don't feel betrayed, I don't feel wronged by him. I'm just trying to weigh my options here. We are going to be friends no matter what. All I wanted was exactly what I got, a couple of options. One was from a nice girl on another board that said maybe I should revisit the past a bit because he seemed unclear on what went wrong between us in the first place, and if anyone has an idea on how I bring that up to him now I would love to hear it. I know him and he'll get defensive and I've forgiven him for everything so I don't want him to think I still have any anger about it that's why it's hard for me to bring it up. And someone else gave another view that there is too much bad history and he jumps around from girl to girl and well yes that makes this relationship sound pretty bad. I don't need a "jumper" haha but the part about bad history is just silly everyone has bad history, and good history and that is definaltly not a factor in what I want. But it definatly is helpful to keep in mind problem areas and think about why two people broke up in the first place just to keep things in perspective. Thank you for all the time you've spent on my post and I wish you the best of luck on whatever it is you are here for. Thanks again.
::And it doesn't bother me if he has an added boost to his ego, in fact we're all entitled to one. You talk about it like its a bad thing. Like its bad that he's getting attention.
Attention per se is not a bad thing.... it can cause problems if you are in an exclusive, committed relationship as that 'attention' can lead to an affair. If you have an open marriage and you both agree, then that attention and possibly sex outside the marriage is ok, but if you think you are in an exclusive relationship, committed, married even, where you both except faithfulness, then that flirty attention is not healthy to your relationship.
::What you don't understand is that I'm not mad at him for anything, I don't feel betrayed, I don't feel wronged by him. I'm just trying to weigh my options here. We are going to be friends no matter what.
Then the relationship as it is, is working fine for you.
Your very first post the part about him getting engaged so soon, because he needed something stable - how sad for the other girl - she believe him to be real, healed and ready for a long-term commitment. I feel for her. For him, another poster pointed out that he relationship 'hopped' - that isn't a good sign.
:: One was from a nice girl on another board that said maybe I should revisit the past a bit because he seemed unclear on what went wrong between us in the first place, and if anyone has an idea on how I bring that up to him now I would love to hear it. I know him and he'll get defensive and I've forgiven him for everything so I don't want him to think I still have any anger about it that's why it's hard for me to bring it up.
I think the next time he asks, tell him. "Do you remember the reasons I gave you when we first broke up?" See if he can recall them. If he really doesn't tell him truthfully, "I hesitate to tell you because I'm no longer upset or angry about the issues and I'm afraid that discussing the issues will bring up bad feelings and I value your friendship."
Good luck to you.
Carrie
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