What would you do?

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-26-2004
What would you do?
17
Mon, 04-26-2004 - 11:30am
This is a long one but thank you to those of you who care to read! I really need some advice!

Ok I've been in an off again on again long term relationship with a guy for three and a half years. The first two were great, we got along most of the time, but were a little younger and not ready for serious/marriage type committment. At least I wasn't! Things started going downhill and I just felt like even though our connection was still strong, I just wasn't getting what I needed out of the relationship. So I ended it and think I hurt him badly. Don't sympathize with him yet! He hurt me plenty too! He, being the immature boy he is (one of the things I love about him by the way) decided to start seeing someone new right away (even though he hasn't had a history of that "can't ever be alone" thing) and actually got engaged! six weeks later.

That was about a year ago, and they stayed together a lot longer than i thought they would. However we never really could let go of each other. A couple months after the engagement, he was calling me and coming over. No we didn't do anything, I wouldn't allow it! But he did start asking me why I left him and later said of the engagement he just needed something stable. So a couple months ago we saw eachother, it was around his bday. I think he was sad that I wasn't going to be there for this one. Anyway we started things up again, yes still engaged. But for three months he was coming over a couple times a week. Then they break up (she breaks it off) and he's all excited to tell me. I tell him (i lie) "what you think that makes me happy?" we end up still sleeping together but allowing ourselves to "see other people" Now I wasn't trying to be mean when I said that, I just know that he really needed time on his own and I didn't want to start up a relationship between us when he'd just come out of one. Especially being engaged for almost a year.

But I loved spending time with him cause it was getting a lot sweeter. We started telling each other we still really loved each other and without realizing it all my feelings for him came back bigger and better than ever. But we were still "seeing other people" So I'm out at a bar and I see him with some girl that he dated when we had a short break up years ago. It triggered those memories, and I was jealous I admit it. It really didn't help that I'd been drinking too and I yelled at him. He got mad (rightfully) but he had been over my house the day before saying all these sweet things and then acted sorta funny when he saw me at the bar, kindof ignoring me which hurt my feelings. Anyway we didn't talk for almost a month. He tried calling me two days later but I hung up on him and I tried calling him twice after that and he never called back. Now we're getting up to the present. Last week he calls out of the blue like nothing has happened and says he wants to see me. I agree, yet through mutual friends I know he's started up something again with the ex-fiance, however she doesn't have the ring back. So he comes over the next day and we both say its best if we're just friends, and know we can't really hang out cause we can't keep our hands off eachother. He's about to leave and then we have sex. It's really true we can't keep our hands off eachother. We alomost did it the day before when I went to say hi to him at work. Anyway I had been struggling with telling him how I feel about him since I told him I didn't care that he and the other woman broke up. I kept wondering should I just tell him that I still really love him and want to work things out or should I let him get over the latest breakup.

Well I decided to tell him the last week, right after we had sex. I told him the whole story that I lied about how I felt when he and the other woman broke up, and that seeing him with someone else made me jealous, and that I would be willing to work things out. Then I sortof gave him an ultimatum , which I hate to do but just couldn't be torn up inside anymore. I told him if that's not what he wanted I couldn't see him. I didn't tell him in a mean way or give him a time limit or anything. Well here I was thinking he would be calling me the next day, and now it's been a week and no word. The last thing he said before he left was that he loves me. I slipped the other day and called him. Yes even after my "ultimatum" (why I hate to give them!!!) If you're still reading this THANK YOU I know it's long. But I really would like any advice. should I really take that as a straight up NO and move on after three and a half years or should I take this as a "mulling over" period. He asked me again last week why I left him in the first place and I never have a very good answer for him. I just tell him it was a mistake. But there were reasons, he damn well knows what they are, I just don't want to get into it with him. I know we'll just fight and it was so long ago. I know if we really get back together there are issues we'll have to discuss. Our connection is still SO STRONG and I don't really want to let that go. I really think he could end up being the one if we get all this straightened out. I've never loved anyone like I love him. Should I pursue it anymore or just wait and see?

Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




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iVillage Member
Registered: 04-26-2004
Mon, 04-26-2004 - 4:27pm
Attention per se is not a bad thing.... it can cause problems if you are in an exclusive, committed relationship as that 'attention' can lead to an affair. If you have an open marriage and you both agree, then that attention and possibly sex outside the marriage is ok, but if you think you are in an exclusive relationship, committed, married even, where you both except faithfulness, then that flirty attention is not healthy to your relationship.

I was not in a committed or exclusive relationship, nor did I think I was. I fail to see why you included this little rant in your post. Most people are aware that flirty attention or sex with someone outside a "comitted" relationshiop is not "healthy to your relationship". But thank you for clearing that up in case I end up in a healthy committed relationship one day.


What you don't understand is that I'm not mad at him for anything, I don't feel betrayed, I don't feel wronged by him. I'm just trying to weigh my options here. We are going to be friends no matter what.

Then the relationship as it is, is working fine for you.

Actually it WAS fine for me. I thought about it and very recently decided I want more. And just because you are not MAD at someone and place BLAME on them for something, doens't mean you don't want a situation to change.



I think the next time he asks, tell him. "Do you remember the reasons I gave you when we first broke up?" See if he can recall them. If he really doesn't tell him truthfully, "I hesitate to tell you because I'm no longer upset or angry about the issues and I'm afraid that discussing the issues will bring up bad feelings and I value your friendship."

does anyone else think this was condescending? the question was how do i bring it up? not if he brings it up what do i say? i just said all of that.


how sad for the other girl - she believe him to be real, healed and ready for a long-term commitment. I feel for her.

actually she knew all about me, I even met her a couple times before me and my ex broke up. She knew about our relationship and that my ex was on the rebound. She also made it a point to come in to my work on a regualar basis after the engagement just to bother me and rub it in, when she knew I was upset. She also brought her big gangster sisers in to intimidate me from having any ties with my ex. Go ahead and feel for her, but maybe you shouldn't speak and judge so quickly.


I came to this board for advice and support not to defend myself and my opinions. I did not come here to judge any one and to bubbles or whoever said I was being judgemental... expectation is not the same thing as being judgmental I EXPECT not to be told how I feel here, I don't expect anyone hear to work miricles or to find the PERFECT advice. Just a place to vent, get some OBJECTIVE opions, but some people are unaware that they are saying something that could be persieved as judgemental or hurtful. I was only trying to make her aware in case she didn't realize. A lot of people on these boards are very emotional and vulnerable and I hate to see them hurt by words of people that have no place doing so. I am not judging anyone. To say someone is being judgemental is not to judge. I hope any of you reading this will just think before you say something that could hurt someone else. Maybe I'm taking these boards too seriously and I'm getting overly pushy about this but I read a post earlier about a girl that was on thses boards cause her bf is gone, her best friend is mad at her, and she had no one left to talk to. I thought I was being nice in trying to keep someone like her from being hurt even more in the one place some people look for support by someone with a lame excuse for saying "why don't you just love yourself then someone can love you" type sh**. Don't ever tell anyone how they feel or what they know or don't know about themselves. You can ASK! but don't tell! There is no way for you to know.



iVillage Member
Registered: 08-04-2003
Mon, 04-26-2004 - 4:55pm
Funny -

::I was not in a committed or exclusive relationship, nor did I think I was. I fail to see why you included this little rant in your post. Most people are aware that flirty attention or sex with someone outside a "comitted" relationshiop is not "healthy to your relationship". But thank you for clearing that up in case I end up in a healthy committed relationship one day.

I included it because I wasn't sure if you were talking about all attention....you asked why it was bad or why I thought it was bad. Just trying to be more clear.

Again, I'm not judging. I can feel for her - for her own process of becoming self-aware. For what she may or may not have been said to her. For stumbling and growing. Just as I can also feel for you - for everything you went through with this guy.

::I think the next time he asks, tell him. "Do you remember the reasons I gave you when we first broke up?" See if he can recall them. If he really doesn't tell him truthfully, "I hesitate to tell you because I'm no longer upset or angry about the issues and I'm afraid that discussing the issues will bring up bad feelings and I value your friendship."

does anyone else think this was condescending? the question was how do i bring it up? not if he brings it up what do i say? i just said all of that.

Sorry, it wasn't meant to be condescending....it's hard to hear tone in the written form when we don't use tags like, said with hesitation, express with concern, etc.

It would still apply - the bringing up part - "I hesitate to tell you because I'm no longer upset or angry about the issues and I'm afraid that discussing the issues will bring up bad feelings and I value your friendship." See where the conversation goes from there. I hope it goes well for the both of you so that you both get what you want and need from the relationship or at least resolve the issue so it won't interfer with your friendship.

I won't write any more as I seem to constantly offend you. My best to you in all things.


Carrie

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-28-2003
Mon, 04-26-2004 - 5:34pm
What I would do is not have embroiled myself in all this mess for over 3 years in the first place. Some people seem to like all the ups and downs and struggles and dramas of dysfunctional hot and cold relationships. Personally I think they're a waste of time. I mean really...3+ years and have you gotten any farther together than where you started? You seem to be in the same situation with the same issues and problems. It's like running in place (or banging your head against a wall).

Seriously, a successful healthy relationship is nothing like you've described. Could this "one day" become that? I doubt it. You're not going to change into different people with different wants, needs, boundaries, priorities, etc. are you? It all depends on what you're looking for, though, and if this is it then settle for status quo (but it must not be b/c you're posting here).

You love him and have a strong attraction to one another. Well, that's great. But IMO it would be worth looking elsewhere to find someone with whom you have that PLUS a stable, committed, mature relationship (which takes two mature, healthy and happy individuals BTW). IMO you're settling for crumbs when you *could* have a whole lot more (with someone who was on the same page as you). But it's your life, so you must decide what it is you're looking for and if this is it. Just don't expect it to morph into what you want if, after all this time, it isn't. Best of luck.

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-26-2004
Mon, 04-26-2004 - 5:51pm
Thank you for responding to my post. You're right drama is a waste of time, and I do have doubts about this ever being anything but a rollercoaster. One of the reasons I'm here. But that's not true about people not changing. No we wont change into differnet people, and I wouldn't want us to haha. But things do change. For example, we had a very healthy, loving relationship at one time, now we don't ahahaha. Anyways thank you for reminding me that I don't HAVE to have so much drama. I've kinda gotten used to our situation and it really is pretty dramatic. I keep getting the response about just letting this go and that's definalty something I should think about. It's just that I already did once. We didn't speak hardly at all for almost a year. We both had seperate lives and relationships. We started talking again three months ago a couple weeks before the fiance was history. Some people are really hard to get out of your life you know? Especially when you're not sure you want them to go. A whole year without him, and my feelings are still just as strong. So are his. But this is weird for us because we said it was over, and it's hard to turn that around. A bit of advice to anyone reading this, if you're not sure, don't leave. (Unless you're getting the crap beat out of you or somthing) If you have problems with someone you love do everything you can to work them out before you call it quits. Or do something temporary! I really don't know it may be too late for us to start fresh ever agian..
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-20-2003
Mon, 04-26-2004 - 9:33pm
"But I find it to be a backhanded insult on these pages and innapropriate to be thrown around by people that don't really know the full situation"

We only know what you post. You can't fault us for not knowing any more than that.


"or are trained in this area."

Suggestion-if you only want trained counselors such as Dr. S to answer your post, you should state that.

"it and can be very hurtful and counterproductive if not done right."

Well this is a public board with many people with different backgrounds and experiences to add to the posts here. They write what they feel and some are more direct than others.You can take what you want and ignore those who you disagree with.

"The girls on these pages need support and helpful advice, not the "cold hard truth" as you see it."

Well this is going to depend how you define 'cold, hard truth' and how do you know those (there are men who post here too) don't benefit from it? What if one person's truth is beneficial. How can you put paramaters on someone's advice and perception on a message board?

'I don't see how anyone here can really see the "truth" to any situation.'

Then why bothger posting here? Does this mean that the advice that you found helpful isn't really valid because that person doesn't see the real truth or know the whole situation?



iVillage Member
Registered: 04-26-2004
Mon, 04-26-2004 - 10:47pm
It seems you have totally misinterpreted my post. All of my comments were referring to one comment made earlier today. You weren't involved, but since you repsonded I'll fill you in. This has nothing to do with advice in general from these boards. I never expected to find "professionals" here, nor do I disagree that some people would benefit from hearing certain opinions they may not want to hear. I was only pointing out that none of us here can assume to know what another person is thinking or feeling about themselves, and then judge them on that assumption. It has nothing to do with anyone being direct, or stating opinions that may be hard to hear. It's about insulting someone and saying they have low self esteem, low self respect, or in this case lack of self valuation. And it was not just stated, it was used as if one were to have that they would not be in the situation they are in now. And by the way, the way I define "cold hard truth" means the one and only truth, which is not subjectivly definable and therefore no one at this message board can know about another persons thoughts and/or feelings. That doesn't mean one cannot offer helpful advice, but I expect the advice to come with good intentions, not by trying to put people in their place. Furthermore if one DID have low self esteem then the way many of you say it is NOT PRODUCTIVE. All I'm saying is that it is not something to be thrown around on these boards. This whole thing I believe has been completely misunderstood. All I am asking is for everyone to play nice, got it kids???????
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 04-26-2004 - 11:58pm
It seems pretty simple to me......if he would just do what you wanted and be what you needed - you'd be happy and wouldn't have to issue ultimatums and break up.

And if you'd just stop having needs and requirements and lethim do whatever he wanted, whenever and with whoever he wanted - he wouldn't have to keep breaking up, withdrawing, etc.

The biggest mistake here is in some very convulted reasoning.

First, people do waht they do because they want to do it. Their values and priorities justify and entitle thier actions, feelings, thoughts, decisions, words, ideas, and desires. Those same values dictate in all situations their character, conscience, integrity and honor.

So neither of you have done any of these things at any time "because of each other, or because of other people or other people's actions/words"....everything that each of has done has been done because at the core - each of you wanted to do it atthe time, the situation just inspired/enabled you to do it.

But the twisted thinking is a) if we just get back together, talk about the past, put it behind us we can "go on from here".....and sometimes you're using b) we need to start over from the beginning (which is what you're thinking you're doing in these long absences from one another).

Neither is correct....basically - you can't pick up whreyou left off.....where you left off was broken up because you two dont' share values, priorities, goals, and definitions of a great life and how to achieve it -so you don't meet each other needs or standards - and that causes conflict and doesn't allow for harmony and trust.

And you can't "start over" as if none of it ever happened...because each of you still have the same values, priorities, goals and standards for yourselves as you did when you started out, broke up, etc. etc.

The past doesn't go away...the past is only dealt with and not feared if the values that inspired the action that was so negative have changd - so that the behavior is not considered "right to do" by the once offending party.

So, you two keep reuniting because there is sexual spark and heat...and every time you reunite and can't keep your hands off one another, you think there is more to this than "I wanna get laid"....you're thinking there is like, admiration, respect, and acceptnace of each of you as individuals by the other in play because time has passed, etc.

It doesn't sound like it -you're previous lovers that really have sexual passion and are passionate people. So you know how to please one another sexually - and perhaps haven't found another partner to be as openly sexually pleasing and pleased with. So you keep coming back hoping "sexual heat" will change the values that you each have, so that you each will become what the other wants and needs in terms of values and standards and goals - so that the conflict can cease and the spark be utilized to inspire trust, harmony, comfort, and security in the relationship.

That won't work...you really ought to see it for what it is. YOu two are great in bed together but really - that's the only place that you're great together. And so if you want to keep getting laid really well without any emotional tie or projections into the future go ahead. And if youdon't - stop getting laid and you'll cease to be confused and hurt.

Erin

quickblade14@hotmail.com

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