Words can never hurt me? Not true.

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-29-2004
Words can never hurt me? Not true.
15
Thu, 04-29-2004 - 11:58am
I am on my second marriage. The first fell apart after 15 years together. I married my second husband two years ago. We have an infant daughter together and I have two children by my first marriage.

My problem is this: my husband always says really hurtful things to me. He says later that he doesn't realize he is doing this but it is tearing down my feelings for him and is eroding my self-esteem.

Last night, we were watching television together. In the show, a man got all choked up when he began talking about his wife, about how much he loves her, etc.

I turned to my husband, who is usually pretty emotionless, and said, "I wish you'd get choked up like that over me."

He replied, "Well do something that chokes me up."

I sat there for a few secs, trying not to overreact, but my heart was feeling torn in two.

Then, I said to him, "I don't think I can."

Afterward, I left the room and he fell asleep. This morning, it's as if he doesn't even know what he has done.

These sorts of comments are normal for our marriage. I've explained to him that if he keeps doing this we will eventually get to the point where I have no feelings left for him. So what should I do?

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 04-29-2004 - 4:58pm
I'm going to put a label on it....but it's not a label that should stick per se.

Codependent. It's "I'm happy if you're happy,and my job is to make you happy so that I'll be happy as a result of your happiness." It's also "without someone I'm no one, so to get a someone I have to be "of use/of service to get someone to be with me, so that I won't be a nobody."

Codependency has so many variable defintions - locking yourself into one facet, or labeling yourself as something like codepedent isn't really productive unless what you're doing is total inward introspection and going "eww..yuck, don't like what I find in me, I need to change me"...in which case it often does help to "slap a label on yourself" - so that you can get right down to the nearest 12-step program, where you're bound to find lots of people with similar viewpoints and reasoning patterns and emotional associations nad expectations - who have come from a myriad of different backgrounds and you've all landed in the same pot - via a different can of soup.

But, if you're nothing without an alliance, and if you're consistently living thru and for that alliance and that person's priorities, values, goals and standards - you're literally giving all your time, energy, money, effort, abilities, talents, possessions, and options to someone to "make them waht they're not, so that you'll be what THEY are in the capacity of a lesser-than adjunct."

One thing about all codependent dynamics (because they're not just romantic relationship dynamics) is that there is absolutely no equality. One person worships and adores the other...while the other distains this person for the adoration while accepting the benefits of thier alliance.

It's two different ways of viewing yourself...when in the mirror of life if you stand there alone - nobody is staring back at you.

The giver is always giving, doing, being of service, sacrificing, having few wants and needs, and always being second place...to be of use, of service, providership means they have an alliance. The giver initially worships the other person thinking "I'll become like them by being with them, and that'll make me like me and my life."

The taker is always taking - not that they can't be nice or kind, but they're only that when THEY want to be or when it benefits them. And they look at this worshipping and adoring person and go "well, in comparison to you - I'm a success, I'm more secure, I'm more complete". and so they alleviate thier fears, doubts, and negativity about themselves by looking down on you...while you envision yourself rising to their level if only they'll agree to affiliate with you.

You asked where it starts....it generally starts in your birth family, and thier birth family and so on. It's one of the hardest cycles to break because of the relatonship dynamic as a whole

In childhood - you are supposed to obey your parents, and do what they say in order to gain approval and acceptance and providership. Naturally, if you have loving, healthy parents - they're able to love you while perhaps hating what you just did (throwing the ball and breaking the lamp) but it is up to them to guide, nurture and teach you self-discipline and self-control. HOw domineering or submissive we see our familial roles played out by the parents in our lives - is often what we got out into the adult world of relationships striving to imitate.

No matter how destructive it is - we're used to it and can navigate within it and understand it - so we seek it.

Naturally, the first few relationships you have as an adult do mimic the parent/child dynamic - it's the only one you know. But if you're mature, secure, and raised in an emotionally balanced environment - you're going to go "wait a second, I get it, I'm not supposed to be working to get their approval in order to be secure. I'm supposed to assess if they meet my standards and needs while I live by my values and standards and work towards my goals."

In extremely dysfunctional families - you're never encouraged or taught to step outside the familial mandates....and as a result what you have are either excessive people-pleasers who seethe with resentment and anger when life doesn't work out like they wanted it to - but didn't work to obtain as a lifestyle...or you have the rebels - who totally defy familial and societal mandates and throw caution to the wind...often coming back to the dsyfunctional environment battered, bruised, maimed and certainly worse for wearonly to be kicked for defying dsyfunctional convention and standards with an "I told you so, you idiot."

And that goes on.....if you as an adult weren't taught to prioritize "finding out who you are, what you stand for, where you're headed and how you're going to get there" as an individual. So that you learn ohw much power, authority, control, and responsibility to yourself and your destiny you have...so taht the expectations regaring others are realistic and you're not always wallowing in despair or riding high on cloud 9 only to fall into the pit of hell at some point. In short, the less needs you have for a partner to meet in terms of "how you perceive yourself" the more you can objectively desire them because of who they are vs. waht they offer you.

Many parents often live vicariously thru their children...their accomplishments are your accomplishments (it means you've done a good job at parenting)...their successes are yours to revel in and you will often steal the spotlight unintentionally going on and on about how much effort, time, sacrifice, and so on that YOU put into make them who they are today. Unfortunately, that means their failures or mistakes are yours to accept as well - and often that means hiding the evidence, eliminating the consequences, and telling small children "this isn't your fault, let's not discuss it just move on and don't tell a living soul."

But, children leave home...and that is often thought of as the "empty nest syndrome" if you're codependent and your life and world and identity was caught up in them.

Healthy, secure, mature, successful parents aren't overly concerned with "being friends with thier children" at the stage where providership and guidance in exchange for obedience is the prevailing dynamic. They realize that the children lack lilfe experience to make decisions that are in their own best interests...nd so if Cathy screams for 4 hours because she didn't get the dolly....or Johnny has a tantrum because he can't go off to camp because it's unaffordable - these parents aren't emotionally destroyed. Upset that the cild is upset...but realizing they're doing waht is in te child's best interests..that the child cannot see at this time becuase of their lack of life experience and self-awareness.

Healthy parents aren't looking to befriend their kids...they're looking to create healthy, successful, secure, goal focused, self-aware, happy, independent, self-defined and created adults...that they can stand back at some point and treat as an equal to themselves and receive the same from their kids - out of respect and admiration for them as a person...not as a "clone of me". That's just giving you someone to align with so that there is a reflection in the mirror - if you're codependent.

Lots of women fall into this mistake...they go from being daddy's daughter, and Jeff's sister, to being Mark's wife, and Tammy's mother....those are roles you play in life. They've got obligations, requirements, joys, and toils all caught up in them. And you're required to play those roles in alignment with your values, standards, principles, priorities, and definitions of a great life and how to achieve it. But thos are roles...and they're ever changing in script and nature, and they're fleeting, when it comes right down to it.

It's not uncommon to see people go from playing roles as daughter/sister/wife/mother - to being the head of the PTA, and then chairing the Methodist women's club, and forever being involved in social and societal organizations, and always assisting the hubby with his goals...never wanting to get overly involved in anything personally because "their sources of identity might need assistance" and they must be free to provide all that is asked and then some.

But, although you're not in it, even "nice codpendent marriages" suffer as a result of this dynamic. Your man is rude, arrogant, selfish, and boorish...codependent doesn't make him that - insecurity does.

But nobody can be your "everything" and not resent the enormous burden that your emotional state inspires in them to "live up, meet expectations, fulfill your wishes" - that's tiring, and it's self-defeating.

Everything in life requires that you define it for yourself in terms of your own wants and needs, goals and expectations - and with you meeting 98% of those things in every regard at all times. So that you know what is a risk to get into and what is not....based on your responsibility to yourself and knowing yourself well.

IT's called self-actualization.

Erin

quickblade14@hotmail.com

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-29-2004
Thu, 04-29-2004 - 5:33pm
I kinda have to wonder if it wasn't caused by my strict religious upbringing. I wasn't allowed to wear pants or makeup, couldn't cut my hair, couldn't go to the movies or skating rinks and couldn't wear any jewelry. We weren't allowed to listen to certain kinds of music and we watched very little television. In fact, I hadn't been to a movie theater until I was 17. By that time, I was in college and living in a dorm at a Christian University so I was old enough to make that decision on my own. But I felt so overcome with guilt that it was a long time before I went to another theater.

I also had never had a single drink of alcohol before I turned 34. I know that may sound odd, but it's the truth.

In my family's religion, you are born into sin. You are a sinner from birth and spend the rest of your life atoning for it, which is generally the way religions seem to be.

You also aren't supposed to think so much of yourself. In fact, the teachings are just the opposite. You have to "give up self" in order to be obedient to Christ and the church.

I do think it could be a problem with co-dependency. I went from being my father's daughter, to my first husband's wife, to my children's mom. When I finally divorced my first husband, I explained to him that I felt like I was living the life someone else chose for me. That may sound like I don't want to take responsibility for my own actions, but that's not what I mean. It's just that I found myself in a pattern, or rut, and stayed there.

It's just in the last four years that I have begun to scratch out my own identity. I have a long way to go, it appears.
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 04-29-2004 - 5:46pm
Well - no shorts, no slacks, no make up, no dating, no "normal adolescence", no movies, no skating rinks, no sex education class, too much church, too many rules and not enough people living the benefits of the relationship with christ, but being martyrs to the rules of the religion - been there, done that - it makes you a sinner or a saint in the extreme - one of the two.

You did what I did...I just kept going thu marriages, and coping inappropriately because I couldn't get the life I wanted...which I refused to define and work for.

My back did hit the wall as an alcoholic, bulemic at 33...with the last husband, and me working construction and being his "excuse" for his lack of success.

So, I've been where you are..and haven't been yet - I seriously advise you not to go there unless you're absolutely certain you want all the devastation that goes with it.

You don't have to leave this man to self-atualize...I sobered up, quit binging and purging, started to take apprpriately responsibility for myself, lived up to my values and stssandards in all situations - and very literally, although I did end up leaving him - he'd have left me if I hadn't...he couldn't stand goal focused, self-aware, self-responsible, brutually honest me living with emotionally unstable, immature, insecure, irresponsible him...it made him "look bad" in his own eyes.

Although, I do thank God every day for putting the man in my life...because I was destroying everything I ever had..and would never have stopped if I hadn't turned to him as a source of identity, success, and security - and he threw it back in my face so blatantly and openly "your job is to make me a success and kiss my butt when you accomplish it."

http://www.hullspeed.net/journal/feature_story_v2_i3.html


Erin

quickblade14@hotmail.com

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-29-2004
Thu, 04-29-2004 - 6:03pm
Well, I have to go home now. I'll reply tomorrow. I have something to send you by e-mail. Thanks so much for the help.
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Fri, 04-30-2004 - 10:39am
Please feel free to use the email.

Erin

quickblade14@hotmail.com

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