To all Men and Women, please read

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-07-2007
To all Men and Women, please read
33
Wed, 02-07-2007 - 7:29am

Hi,

I use this board under a different name, but because of the nature of this posting, I have decided a new registration was required. Please bear with me, there is advice for Men and Women at the end of this email.

Yesterday, for the first time, I went with a prostitute. I had been thinking about this for the last 12 months, and finally bucked up the backbone to get on with it. The reason I went to a prostitute was simply that there was things that I wanted to try that my wife was not into, not prepared to try, didn’t want to get into, a million reasons.

I didn’t want an affair – I love my wife. I am just, well, I am just a man who needed that little bit more than my Wife was willing to give or try. Its not a good excuse, I know.

I wont go into the details – nobody here will want to read them. But what I wanted to report is that it was nothing like what I expected. It was… well, empty. The sex was average, it wasn’t thrilling, it wasn’t good. I just could not connect. It was almost like I was a robot. Half way though, I wanted to end it, and that’s just what I did. The prostitute did everything she could (she knew what I wanted to try before we met as we had exchanged details on the phone and by email), but her ‘ohhs’ and ‘ahhhhs’ were not my wife.

Am I unhappy I did it? A little. It was a waste of money (quite a lot of money as it happens), but then again, if I had not tried this then I would not have known. I tried some of the things my Wife didn’t want to. But at the end of the day, I would rather have done them with my wife.

The reason for posting this here, where I am sure that the name calling will start (hence the false ID), it to use the experience to give the following two items of advice:

Men. If you are thinking of doing the same, I cant recommend it – at all. If you are the type of guy who just wants unattached false sex, then maybe it will be for you. But it will not be sexy, or exciting. Bite the bullet, chat with your wife or girlfriend, and see what happens. Ok, the prostitute will let you do almost whatever you want (subject to the limits of the girl you pick, but for most, this is not much they will do including ALL the extremes you can imagine).

Women, please, remember that we are only men. Men are different from women (as you know). If we cant get it from you, then we will stray, either to prostitutes or worse, will have affairs. We run on need, visuals, experience, and both quality and quantity. If you can provide that, different things, interesting things, then we wont stray. If your SO talks to you about trying something, its because he is keen to try it and if he cant get it from you, he may well just go elsewhere.

Above all, its all about communication.

Ok, that’s it. Let the blood letting start.

Me.

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-21-2007
Wed, 02-21-2007 - 1:39am

I see his stating the men statement as showing a fact of differences. If you read up on men and women when it comes to sex they do see sex differently and i have seen that myself. In talking with alot of men and women separately and together. He was just stating a fact about men being different than women when it comes to sex.

I heard a female doctor say on radio that women do not understand how men and women are different when it comes to sex and he has encountered that in his office when treating women. The ob/gyn doctor-that long word that starts with gyn. And we women dont understand the men and how they operate with sex. Which some of it is more confusing to me than anything else. For an example, Men are visual and women are nonvisual and that plays out in sex. Why do you think that men are drawn to what women are wearing. Why do you think men have it hard when trying to keep their minds pure. I had men tell me that how often they think of sex and how they handle it and it showed me how men are different than women. And how some handle it in a healthy way. A women you have to meet relationally by talking to her etc that doesn't involve sex and she will be willing to give it when she wants and you want -...

Judith

I can give examples if you want me to.

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-21-2007
Wed, 02-21-2007 - 1:43am

There were two different men who said two different things. One indicated he was in a sexless position and the other wasn't. The second one wife did not want to do something. I saw that.

Judith

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-21-2007
Wed, 02-21-2007 - 1:53am

I think he learned his lesson by regretting what he did. Sadly alot of men and women have to do it in order to learn the lesson and others dont listen to them.

Sadly i find alot of people on this board who is doing the very thing he regrets. And I dont understand it. I see pain in the children if there are children involved. I know I saw children hurt in my family and it has never gone away. It is always still there in the back of the mind. join a yahoogroup on adultkids of divorce and you will hear alot of pain of the kids talking about how the mother and or father cheated on teh other and divorce resulted.

Why can't people see that?

Judith

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-21-2007
Wed, 02-21-2007 - 1:57am

I like your third paragraph response but why say the rest of your comments. Why would you want him to seek out more options instead of working on it with his spouse.

I think you ought to listen to adult children who have had parents cheat and it resulted in a divorce and the pain the kids have had to live with becuase of the cheating etc. It stays in the back of the mind and never goes away. I know too because of family members.

Why?

Judith

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-21-2007
Wed, 02-21-2007 - 2:22am

This is a true story. This guy and I cant remember why he did this but he cheated on his wife and they gal he did it with set him up and he got a note from her after she left saying that she deliberately did it so that he could get a disease. And she didn't tell him she had it when she did it. She said that she was going to do what she did on purpose. And intentionally did'nt tell him so he could hurt like she did. And he got a disease and was devasted.

Judith

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-19-2006
Wed, 02-21-2007 - 9:35am

Judith,

I'm not sure which of my comments you are referring to, but I don't think a thought process can justify cheating on a spouse. Averages say that men think about sex more than women, but there are women that think about sex more than men too. Not all women require romance to have sex! Many women enjoy sex just as much as men do.

In my marriage, I want things that my DH doesn't, but that doesn't justify me going outside of the marriage to satisfy those things. However, there are marriages where the two people come to an agreement that one partner may seek those things outside of the marriage. In that case, it's not cheating.

You made a statement about men being visual and woman are not. Not true. Some men need more than a visual, they need to feel a connection. Some woman love a visual and enjoy sex for pure enjoyment. I agree that in the stereotypical sense it is considered that men think differently about sex than women do. I think women who truly enjoy sex and are not inhibited by thinking in stereotypical ways are capable of a very similar thought process. Either way, it doesn't mean that one partner should be cheated on for not feeling the same way, wanting the same thing, or for not satisfying every urge their partner has.

In some of your posts, you mention children being hurt by their parents divorcing because one partner cheated. Children can also be hurt by parents that stay married for the wrong reasons. Setting a good example for the children is always the best option. That example should include them watching loving parents manage life together in healthy ways. It should teach them how important it is to trust a partner, the importance of compromise and commitment. I don't necessarily feel children need to know if one of their parents cheated on the other. That puts the child in a bad place -- having to choose sides, and not hurt one parent. A child should be able to unconditionally love both parents just as parents love their children. The pain that they witness is what caused the problem, and the parents can act responsibly and protect their children from seeing all that pain. Since cheating in itself is rarely the whole problem between the parents, it isn't fair for children to think that their parents got divorced because one of them cheated and not be aware of the other problems that existed in the marriage. Children should also be taught about honesty and forgiveness.



iVillage Member
Registered: 02-21-2007
Wed, 02-21-2007 - 10:12am

YOu misunderstood me. I still stand by what I said. I agree that cheating is wrong and how he did it is wrong but he learned his lesson and will do something differently. I wasn't saying that the differences had anything to do with the cheating except the visual does. Why do you think men -can't control the visual. ANd I know 90% men who have said if the visual wasn't there it wouldn't be so hard to deal with. Yes they can control it. I realize what you said is true but even if what you said is true the facts remain. I know I need to have a relationship with a guy besides his looks before I can consider -I ...

JUdith

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-12-2005
Thu, 02-22-2007 - 11:01pm

"I like your third paragraph response but why say the rest of your comments. Why would you want him to seek out more options instead of working on it with his spouse."

I'll address them accordingly..........
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“First thing, you would have found more sympathetic "ears" on the Mismatched Libidos board than here.”
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I wanted him to know that there is a place that he could go to see some real suffering and perhaps he would get a better appreciation for what he has. Also, the topic of infidelity pops up quite frequently there and he might be able share his incident and/or learn from others.
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“I think your choice of a Pro is better than an affair but too risky. I hope you do not get the utter humiliation of being caught by the cops or worse, end up on COPS.”
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Prostitutes provide sex, not a companion. An affair provides sex AND a companion. It is harder to rebuild from that then someone you just have sex with. Try asking some couples who have divorced over “just sex” and those who end it over “the other woman/man”.
Your reason for going is one that many men/women have thought about before. You acted on it and you seem to regret it. Let it go at that. Don't compound your mistake and tell her. Just move on.

Since it was just sex and he seems to be remorseful what would be gained by confessing? I don’t remember saying he had any crushing guilt over it. If he really was unhappy with what happened then as long as he was safe then it can be “our little secret”. Lesson learned.
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“Saying all men will always invite criticism since that it is impossible for ALL men. I agree that we ALL have desires but you have married someone who doesn't share them. Wether you didn't talk about it before you married or thought you could get from her later, you should accept it, or leave. Don't cheat, not even with a Pro.”
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I’m guessing you are cool with this paragraph.
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“Also, if you feel the need to go again then whatever your not getting is pretty important to you. Just get a divorce. Cheating is lame. Be a man and admit that you want better for yourself. Have the decency to respect your spouse's decision to no to something he/she doesn't want. I'm sure there are somethings you would not do in bed either.”
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I think we can all agree that respecting each other is important. We all compromise ( I don’t like the term sacrifice) but some things are non negotiable. What maybe perfectly acceptable to everyone on earth may not be to you and that is okay. Since he has thought about this for so long and finally did it I am reluctant to suggest they keep hashing it out. I assume that he has talked till he is blue in the face. Divorce is probably the only answer since I doubt he will give up his desire/fantasy.

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“Finally, just look at the Taboo boards. Lots of women who do just about anything you can think of. Better yet surf the web for amateur forums and you can hundreds of thousands of pictures/movies of women who do everything. This isn't the 50's. There is no need to hide your desires and most people don't hide theirs either. If you want facial, anal, oral, or anything else; there are plenty of men and women whom enjoy it. Just find them. Man you can even google them :P ”
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I mention this to give him hope/courage to be happy. There are many men and women who share his probable carnal desires. Life is too short to spend unhappy and miserable. What our parents may have endured in the past just doesn’t apply today just as our norms will fade with the next generation.
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“Go your separate way and stop being a unfaithful spouse. Chances are she is tired of your begging for the "act" and in the long run she would be happier too.”
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Refer to the MML board and hang out there for a few weeks and see.

I want to ask you why you seem to think that children would be a reason to be unhappy? With almost half of all marriages ending I am sure that kids have lots of company. Please don’t encourage people to use children as a weapon. My parents divorced after 25+ years because they were waiting for the last child to leave home. I HATED that they told us that. To think I helped contribute to their suffering with each other was upsetting. Trust me when I say that not all kids fall apart at divorce. Instead of thinking that you are setting a bad example by giving up , try to show them that life happens and it is just as important to know when to quit as it is good to know when to fight.

Good Luck,
mb

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-21-2007
Thu, 02-22-2007 - 11:44pm

I was surprised you responded at all.

Also, if you feel the need to go again then whatever your not getting is pretty important to you. Just get a divorce. Cheating is lame. Be a man and admit that you want better for yourself. Have the decency to respect your spouse's decision to no to something he/she doesn't want. I'm sure there are somethings you would not do in bed either.”
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I think we can all agree that respecting each other is important. We all compromise ( I don’t like the term sacrifice) but some things are non negotiable. What maybe perfectly acceptable to everyone on earth may not be to you and that is okay. Since he has thought about this for so long and finally did it I am reluctant to suggest they keep hashing it out. I assume that he has talked till he is blue in the face. Divorce is probably the only answer since I doubt he will give up his desire/fantasy.

Judith: I know couples who have overcome an affair. And it is only one time. I also know why there is so much these days. Divorce is not the answer if he is willing to make a compromise and not do it. Since he regrets it =that tells me he will compromise and not do it. Also it is what he was watching long before that and also if there was issues long before that which tells me there is; that indicates to me something was not being met.
By the way -we dont know that unless he tells us. I see him as hving gave it up, given the fact he would not do it again and regret doing it the first time. (Why do you think we have the problems that we do today because of our parents generation who didn't solve the problems like they could have. Also the 60s brought alot of pain that wasn't dealt with then which contributed to all the problems that there is today. )I can give you examples.

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“Finally, just look at the Taboo boards. Lots of women who do just about anything you can think of. Better yet surf the web for amateur forums and you can hundreds of thousands of pictures/movies of women who do everything. This isn't the 50's. There is no need to hide your desires and most people don't hide theirs either. If you want facial, anal, oral, or anything else; there are plenty of men and women whom enjoy it. Just find them. Man you can even google them :P ”
-----
I mention this to give him hope/courage to be happy. There are many men and women who share his probable carnal desires. Life is too short to spend unhappy and miserable. What our parents may have endured in the past just doesn’t apply today just as our norms will fade with the next generation.

Judith: I know my parents endured because they didn't deal with the personal issues that led to the emotional affair that they had.It could have led to sex but there were other factors taht prevented that which I am not going into. My parents have separated because of a number of factors not only just sex. I know the emotional affair they had did play a part. As a result, it has pained me in a number of ways. Just know that other people knew hurts to this day. I would be careful what you say about other people on this board.

Also I sense in you hurt from your past that you haven't resolved.
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“Go your separate way and stop being a unfaithful spouse. Chances are she is tired of your begging for the "act" and in the long run she would be happier too.”
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Refer to the MML board and hang out there for a few weeks and see.

Judith: I dont have to go to the board to know. I also know of couples who have overcome the one and only affair.

I want to ask you why you seem to think that children would be a reason to be unhappy? With almost half of all marriages ending I am sure that kids have lots of company. Please don’t encourage people to use children as a weapon. My parents divorced after 25+ years because they were waiting for the last child to leave home. I HATED that they told us that. To think I helped contribute to their suffering with each other was upsetting. Trust me when I say that not all kids fall apart at divorce. Instead of thinking that you are setting a bad example by giving up , try to show them that life happens and it is just as important to know when to quit as it is good to know when to fight.

Judith: Yeah we do but it pains us (children of separation and divorce) that our parents dont work out the issues and allow the other person to come into play. See above. I dont think that was the only reason why they were waiting. I have talked to couples and read alot of true stories on what contributed to it besides seeing it in my own parents lives and extended family. And I have helped a husband who was having problems-so I know-I was right in figure out what the problem was. Your parents didnt' want to tell you the whole truth. Parents always dont tell the whole story. I personally believe that was an excuse on their part. I wasn't saying you contributed to your parents breakup. You misread my email. I dont know if it would do any good to explain what I was saying in my previous email. Divorce teaches to solve the marital conflict by divorce. I know women and men even one man I have talk to recently who is in his early 30s that it has pained him that his parents have broken up because he fears getting into a marriage/partner whatever you call it, for fear teh woman will leave him and his father left for another woman. But it was more than just sex as to why his father left. I know so because he told me what his father said. It is not only the man that experiences it. I also know of a true story that a man couldn't find a woman to get to know and ultimately marry because all the woman he tried to get to know -was afraid of him leaving her and he came to find out that it had to do with the womans' parents having been divorced.

I dont recommend divorce if it can be worked out. There are alot of couples I know that go without sex because of disability and they have something that puts their selfish desires aside and care about the ultimate good for the other person above themselves. When there is continuous repeated behavior of the one who doesn't want to change -then I see the one who can separate and or divorce as an option.

Judith

Good Luck,
mb

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-19-2006
Fri, 02-23-2007 - 11:30am

"There are alot of couples I know that go without sex because of disability and they have something that puts their selfish desires aside and care about the ultimate good for the other person above themselves."

Just in the case of the parents that won't divorce because they have children, this is not always the right answer. You are considering the need for intimacy and sexual pleasure to always be selfish. I personally take my marriage vows very seriously, but my husband and I both agree that making the other partner suffer would be our worst nightmare come true. For many people, stress lowers their libido and that person may well be able to live for years in a relationship without sex, and may not be affected by it. I personally find relief from some kinds of stress in intimacy, and I don't feel it is selfish behavior. Nothing would break my heart more than to see my husband disabled and unable to enjoy life, but I don't think it would be healthy for me to commit to a life without intimacy and/or sex and live purely as his caregiver. Perhaps it is easier for me to feel this way because I would never want him to live that way, and I know that he would never want me to live that way. Even as parents of disabled children, you are encouraged to step back and give yourself a break on a regular basis. It is just not healthy to sacrifice all of yourself to care for another. Stepping back and feeling human gives you the refreshment you need to continue your role as caregiver. For many, sex and intimacy can provide some of the refreshment they need, for others, an afternoon of tea and biscuits might do the trick.

I personally know of a woman who had a terminally ill husband. His condition lasted for years (he was in his 11th year and still deteriorating) and worsened as time went on. At first he could still walk, then the wheelchair came, then he had to crawl to bed. At first he could write, then the computer was his only outlet, words still worked until his speech became so slurred it was incomprehensible. She was a young woman with two daughters and had to care for all of them on her own for years. She worked long hours, did all of the household chores, raised the children as a single parent, and cared for her ailing husband. As her daughters got older, they were able to help care for him and help with household chores. Just before her oldest daughter graduated from high school, she discovered that her mother was having an affair with a man. The man had been the daughters 5th grade teacher. The daughter was hurt and disgusted that her mother could do this to her father. She questioned every activity that her mother had from the year that she was in 5th grade and felt that her whole life had been a lie. What the daughter didn't know is that her mother had the affair with the fathers blessing. The father was still alive, but so weak that she really couldn't discuss the situation with him. Also, the wife never flaunted the affair, but the teacher had become a family friend. Hopefully one day the daughter will be able to understand and come to terms with what her parents decided. If she doesn't, it really is her problem, not something the parents did to her -- or at least that is my opinion.

To clarify -- I do think that hiring a prostitute or having an affair to get something that your wife WON'T give you is wrong. If you want that something so bad that you can not live your life without it, then you need to move on, not cheat.