are we failing today's young women
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| Mon, 01-10-2005 - 1:05am |
I've just read two posts regarding pubic shaving. One says that no (American) man will date a "hairy" girl and another says that to be natural is unhygenic and gives you spots. Now, I'm not just speaking of these two posters - as I've read these sentiments here quite a number of times here.
I'm not going to argue the aesthetics or sensory issues of the discussion because this post is not about the pros and cons of pubic shaving. My issue is: how can we have let these girls grow into young women who's comments show such ignorance or lack of self esteem? What have we - as a society - done wrong?
I really hope that when my DD grows up, she has enough self esteem to avoid a man who would refuse to date her because she may choose pubic hair. Why can't these young women understand that a man who would leave you because of pubic hair is too shallow to date? His behaviour simply shows that he's in it only for the sex....obviously, if hair is a deal breaker - her mind doesn't matter.
As for unhygenic? How do the posters think that women who've never shaved cope? Honestly, it's not like their bits are rotting and dropping off in the street. For that matter, it's not like they have any higher rates of bacteria than a shaved woman. Have these ignorant posters never heard of soap? Or - perhaps it's the opposite - maybe they are neurotic about their vulvas and feel that the slightest hint of moisture is bad. That in itself is bad - how can they enjoy their sexuality if they think their vulvas are dirty?
You know, when I was a teen, all we needed was a tube of pimple cream and a tube of lipstick. Now days, they are getting waxed, manicured and pedicured, fake tans and solariums - not to mention requesting plastic surgery. According to some posters here, you've simply "gotta do it".
Are we breeding a whole generation of vain women who think that how they look is the only thing that matters?
Edited 1/10/2005 5:25 am ET ET by iv_aisha2004

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Here, here, Aisha....I agree with your comments but all we can do is provide the facts to young girls, you can't force them to believe them. Choosing to give away one's sexual and personal power is a choice.
There is more sexual and biological education available now than ever before so really, what more can we do? But once again, you can lead a horse to water and all that.
Unfortunately, I don't think it's just THIS generation of women that seems to feel that beauty/sexual attraction is the only value we have. I think the world has always tried to force feed us that nonsense. But it's very disconcerting and sad that, in the 21st century, so many young women are STILL buying into it.
Edited 1/10/2005 2:43 am ET ET by katmandoo2001
Since you're not discussing the "assthetics" of the topic, then I'll avoid that too and just simply say that society has done MUCH to sully the realistic thinking of our youth these days.
For instance, I can't believe the number of men that care soooo much about their size. As soon as people like you and me say they worry too much, here comes a post or two that confirms what those very guys feared. LOL!
Everytime the Mrs. & I worry about young ladies feeling pressured into unprotected sex, here comes a post or two from time to time that tells us to stop treating them like children and that they know what their doing.
Everytime we older ones hit the younger ones about dating someone you TRUST and that likes you the way you are, WE get hit with the lecture to not lecture them and let them live their own lives.
I gotta tell ya, its getting harder to express concern for them. We still HAVE the concern, but its getting more impossible these days to express it, ya know? So often, they simply don't want to hear it unless its already something that fits what they already to hear.
I guess my point is that society does steer our youth here and there, but its the YOUTH THEMSELVES that are sorta steering society in the first place...to me it sure seems that way anyway.
C h a r a c t e r
above all else
Mr. Para
C H A R A C T E R
>>I guess my point is that society does steer our youth here and there, but its the YOUTH THEMSELVES that are sorta steering society in the first place...to me it sure seems that way anyway.<<
So much of it is peer pressure too. I'm lucky, because I've never felt peer pressure - but judging by some of the posts here, it sure exists. And it always seems to be the ignorant/low self esteem posters that write the peer pressure posts. "You've gotta do it or he won't date you"....or..."it's your body - but" The posters who have a mature "live and let live" attitude on things sexual also seem to have a far more balanced and intelligent outlook on life in general. I would also like to say for the record, that I have seen a great number of balanced and intelligent posts by our younger posters - I don't want to lump them all into one basket.
>>society has done MUCH to sully the realistic thinking of our youth these days.<< Regarding not discussing the "asthetics" , I was mainly trying to avoid a discussion on the pros and cons of pubic shaving - as this is not the point of my discussion. (editing my first post for clarity at this point) It's no ones business who does what with their pubic hair, but I strongly take issue with ill informed opinions which are matched with peer pressure. So, Para....what are you getting at here? Beauty expectations placed on our young people? (guessing)
The penis size thing? Well, I suppose that's matched to breast size issues LOL. I think that for every man who worries about the size of his appendage, a woman worries about the size of hers. And for all of those cases, I bet there has been a thoughtless partner who has fed those insecurities. One of the things I love about age is wisdom. If I was single again and someone criticised my body, he sure wouldn't be seeing it again.
>>Unfortunately, I don't think it's just THIS generation of women that seems to feel that beauty/sexual attraction is the only value we have. I think the world has always tried to force feed us that nonsense. But it's very disconcerting and sad that, in the 21st century, so many young women are STILL buying into it.<<
I suppose that looks have always been important to a degree. It sure helps when you first meet someone - but after that, the personality factor should kick in. Who wants to date a beautiful bimbo (or himbo) long term?
Trying to not sound like a bra-burning feminist, but I sometimes feel that rather than make progress....we're actually regressing. I can almost hear the creaking of the corsets and see women pretending that they can't think. I think that young women of today have it much harder than I did.
In my day, a bloke was just happy to be "getting some". How it was groomed was not worthy of thought. If what the posters write about (American) men not being interested in unshaved women is true, I have to assume that American women are putting out far too easily. The men are just not desperate enough
Every time I read one of these threads, I'm thankful I only have sons and not daughters.
I think those that have posted on this thread so far would agree that a lot of the problem is a lack of parental responsibility, or at least a lack of communication, about teaching healthy body image, self-respect and respect for others. When people value looks over substance, I figure their parents didn't do a proper job of teaching real values. Many kids these days spend a lot more time in front of the tv rather than around the dinner table talking to their parents about real life, real issues.
And speaking of TV, they're not watching news or discovery channel, they're watching crap. They are getting info about body image watching music videos and other stuff, seeing that skinny young women w/ big boobs, too much makeup and slutty clothes are hip and desirable. It's not just young girls that now believe that (why do you think so many older women who should know better--women my age--are getting boob jobs and plastic surgery?) I think the media (not just tv and magazines but internet too) has a big role in shaping what is desirable/sexy. The media is a factor now that wasn't AS important when I was an impressionable girl.
Final thought--the young women who post here are probably not representative of high school and college girls as a whole. I have had many high school girls babysit for my kids over the years and they have been really wonderful young women who probably spend very little time agonizing over pubic hair or the best BJ techniques--they are simply too busy w/ getting good grades, making the basketball team, editing the school paper, applying to colleges.
JMHO
I have to agree with nanibird......and a very important point she made. The majority of posters we get here are those that already have self image and self esteem problems. They DO succomb to "peer pressure".....and for them it's do ANYTHING to "get a man". They seem to think that they're not complete unless they have a man hanging on their arm.
Aisha talks about the "old days"....when things were a lot different. My "old days" are even older than hers! And I agree. We didn't worry about going to the gym, we didn't need six-pack abs. (we didn't even know what they were!) I'm not saying there wasn't pre-marital sex, there sure was, evidenced by all the "shotgun weddings" in those days before decent birth control.
And that brings me to another thought that I have frequently. In those days, men weren't expected to "perform". Sex was something that you just did if you thought you were "in love". When I was young, I never heard of a guy "losing his erection" or having a problem reaching climax......because if they were having sex, it was either with the "neighborhood slut" (and yes, every neighborhood had one!) or with a girl they were probably going to marry. These girls or women did NOT compare, or have expectations. They were probably only with one guy, then they married them. They had no "past" to tell a guy about and make him worry about comparisons, and give him all kinds of emotional problems about his "performance". They didn't go into orbit if the girl didn't have orgasms, nor did the girl....because we'd never even HEARD of orgasms for women. If a girl DID have a past, it was usually only one guy, and she was smart enough to keep it to herself! In those days, guys were looking for "nice girls" to marry, not "used merchandise"!
Things were much too rigid in those days...and I don't think we should ever go back to that kind of thinking, but at the same time, I get the feeling that sex has turned into some kind of sporting event. Girls feel that they have to compete with past partners, and so do guys. If girls got pregnant, they were either "forced" to get married, or shipped out of town like a leper, and gave up their babies for adoption. That was wrong, but these days? Let's have a baby with every guy we sleep with! (maybe that will make him stay around? NOT!)
Women have to learn that they are MORE than a sexual recepticle, and there is a LOT more to life and relationships than sex.
Ok, let me get off my soap box and get ready to go to work, lol
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