are we failing today's young women

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-13-2004
are we failing today's young women
25
Mon, 01-10-2005 - 1:05am

I've just read two posts regarding pubic shaving. One says that no (American) man will date a "hairy" girl and another says that to be natural is unhygenic and gives you spots. Now, I'm not just speaking of these two posters - as I've read these sentiments here quite a number of times here.

I'm not going to argue the aesthetics or sensory issues of the discussion because this post is not about the pros and cons of pubic shaving. My issue is: how can we have let these girls grow into young women who's comments show such ignorance or lack of self esteem? What have we - as a society - done wrong?

I really hope that when my DD grows up, she has enough self esteem to avoid a man who would refuse to date her because she may choose pubic hair. Why can't these young women understand that a man who would leave you because of pubic hair is too shallow to date? His behaviour simply shows that he's in it only for the sex....obviously, if hair is a deal breaker - her mind doesn't matter.

As for unhygenic? How do the posters think that women who've never shaved cope? Honestly, it's not like their bits are rotting and dropping off in the street. For that matter, it's not like they have any higher rates of bacteria than a shaved woman. Have these ignorant posters never heard of soap? Or - perhaps it's the opposite - maybe they are neurotic about their vulvas and feel that the slightest hint of moisture is bad. That in itself is bad - how can they enjoy their sexuality if they think their vulvas are dirty?

You know, when I was a teen, all we needed was a tube of pimple cream and a tube of lipstick. Now days, they are getting waxed, manicured and pedicured, fake tans and solariums - not to mention requesting plastic surgery. According to some posters here, you've simply "gotta do it".

Are we breeding a whole generation of vain women who think that how they look is the only thing that matters?




Edited 1/10/2005 5:25 am ET ET by iv_aisha2004
Dress Up Games, Doll Makers and Cartoon Dolls @ The Doll Palace
Avatar for katmandoo2001
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Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 01-10-2005 - 3:24pm

I agree. No one wants to take the time to find out if they even like the person before jumping in bed now.

And certainly no seems to realize that the "honeymoon hormones" go away with time so it's best to make sure that there's something more substantial there than just sex appeal. So why should we be surprised that we have a 55-60% divorce rate!

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-13-2004
Mon, 01-10-2005 - 4:10pm

We need a "soap box" icon ;-)

>>And certainly no seems to realize that the "honeymoon hormones" go away with time so it's best to make sure that there's something more substantial there than just sex appeal. So why should we be surprised that we have a 55-60% divorce rate!<<

Another thing that I believe leads to higher divorces: I spend time on some of the relationship problem boards. And I see so many young people desperately trying to hang onto a bad relationship - when they are only dating!!!

No matter what we say, they don't seem able to accept that a bad relationship when dating will make a terrible marriage. They hear that relationships need work - but put all their time and effort into a relationship that will obviously keep them miserable long term. Is this an issue of self esteem again "if I let him go, no one will want me" or are their priorities screwed?

Dress Up Games, Doll Makers and Cartoon Dolls @ The Doll Palace
iVillage Member
Registered: 07-22-2004
Mon, 01-10-2005 - 4:28pm

Absolutely! Much of the issues of today's youth regarding their viewpoint of sex or sexual relationships really DOES derive from peer pressure. That is elementary.

However, the part (oh, GREAT topic btw!) that I feel is being 'neglected' (for lack of better term) by comparison anyway is the fact that many of these teens just don't want to hear it anyway when it comes to OUR (the older and/or more experienced ones) view of sex and relationships.

These younger ones that want their tatoos and piercings and hair styles and excessive make-up and allllll kinds of things that we older ones have opinions on...

...well...they just don't want to hear it. Worst of all, even though WE know that many times it is the peer pressure, guess what? That RIGHT THERE is the LAST thing they want to hear as it is, LOL, because it shows lack of respect for their maturity to decide things on their own.

I'm not saying at all that I've dealt more with self-confident teens than not, but I AM saying that both kinds do exist and I think its important to address sides of the issue.

Furthermore, and I'm hoping this is not debatable but actually just super duper interesting thought...

...isn't it at all POSSIBLE, anyone reading this that is, that the peer pressure comes from those youth that DO have that confidence that the others don't have? Not sure how y'all view it, but thats basically all I see. Thats why they call it "peer" pressure IMHO, LOL!!!

Again, thats why I'm on the soapbox about dealing with types. Hope that makes sense.

:)

C h a r a c t e r


above all else


Mr. Para

 

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iVillage Member
Registered: 10-13-2004
Mon, 01-10-2005 - 4:39pm

>>...isn't it at all POSSIBLE, anyone reading this that is, that the peer pressure comes from those youth that DO have that confidence that the others don't have? Not sure how y'all view it, but thats basically all I see. Thats why they call it "peer" pressure IMHO, LOL!!!<<

I do wonder if it's a "fake" confidence though. It's like how you can get dressed up, and know you look good when walking down the street...it does give you a confidence boost. But it's only as permanent as the clothes. Would these people still be so confident without the cigarette/handsome boyfriend/party drugs/trendy clothes/shaved pubic hair?

To me, true confidence goes much deeper than needing to slave to trends.

Then there is the issue of maturity. A truly mature person has learned that people can be different and that's OK.....they don't pressure them into changing.

Dress Up Games, Doll Makers and Cartoon Dolls @ The Doll Palace
iVillage Member
Registered: 12-20-2004
Mon, 01-10-2005 - 4:57pm
One thing we need to remember is that these ARE young people. They are immature by nature.
If everyone else is shaving pubics, smoking weed, having sex, giving B.J`s then it MUST be cool to do it too!?! I remember the days when I was worried about what others thought of me or what their opinion meant.
Ofcourse they dont want to hear it from us (oldsters) every generation has been like that.
Im not professing that all women need to live in a convent before they get married, but they do need to know its ok NOT to do things they are uncomfortable with, its ok to say no.
My philosophy has always been, "things in moderation". Experimenting with sex and having a few partners is one thing, living a sexually active (LIFESTYLE) where one goes from one bed to another to another is something completely different.(this goes for males or females).Obviously it can be a moral issue, but it can be other issues also. A really stong personality can deal with almost anything, but how many of them are out there.especially at such young ages.
Avatar for katmandoo2001
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Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 01-10-2005 - 5:35pm

I've had this same conversation SO many times with young employees of mine, daughters of friends and family, etc. I really think it's again a matter of self esteem. After all, a reasonably well-adjusted young woman, who can see beyond today, could accept that sometimes, things just don't work out, grieve the loss and move on to bigger and better things.

But I just cringe when seeing the same behavior and treatment that would NEVER be tolerated from a friend or anyone else, tolerated or even excused from a BF.If you have to give and give to keep someone in a relationship, while rarely getting your own needs met, that should be the wakeup call.

I believe this lack of self esteem, and believing that you can change a guy, are two reasons why "He's Just Not That Into You" is such a best seller! I just hope that these young women will heed the same information coming from a GUY!

Father's are the key for daughters, I'm convinced.

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-13-2004
Mon, 01-10-2005 - 5:45pm

>>One thing we need to remember is that these ARE young people. They are immature by nature.<<

but going back to my original question, immaturity is not an excuse for ignorance. While I can live with the attitude that we have to do what our friends do - I can't live with some of the kids spouting such ignorant comments such as "men won't date you if you don't shave" or "not shaving is unhygenic"

To me, such comments are not only peer pressure, but ignorant scare tactics to boot.

Dress Up Games, Doll Makers and Cartoon Dolls @ The Doll Palace
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Registered: 07-22-2004
Mon, 01-10-2005 - 6:10pm

Perhaps my view of this is a bit warped by the high school and college youth conversations I've been exposed to and even involved with, LOL!

When I see the tongue piercings, I just don't view that as someone being into doing it simply because it be labeled as "trendy" and all. In other words, while youths do things for the sheer peer of it, others do them because they actually LIKE that style in the first place as well.

That was the point, lol, hope that makes sense.

Now, and I'm NOT making this up, but if it really does make anyone feel better, don't forget the number of men out there that are dumped because they don't fit the female mode as well. For very clear example:

Men out there seem to be more worried about parts of there bodies that they CAN'T change than women are about parts of their body that they CAN change. I just found that quite quite interesting.

So many boys have been dumped and then embarrassed by exes who pick on them for their size for instance, but how many times to you actually hear about that compared to the ol' shaving issue? Thats my point, we hear more about one particular issue or even one particular gender's issues and yet we hear so little about the other ones. In fact, how much support will young boys receive regarding penis size and how much do you REALLY think that factors in to whether or not they will report that or discuss it as likely as younger and more supportive women will about their issue?

Its type of difference that I recognize as well as the fact that there are those who do trendy things without peer pressure. They all exist, we know that, yes, but I'm just saying that the less talked about issues exist MUCH more than any of us think or realize.

C h a r a c t e r


above all else


Mr. Para

 

C  H  A  R  A  C  T  E  R

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-13-2004
Mon, 01-10-2005 - 7:01pm

I take no issue with people who follow trends because they like the trend. Heavens, I enjoyed the revival of flared jeans LOL. On the subject of pubic shaving, there are many people who do it because they like to....not because it's expected. Again, I have no problem with that.

I'm more concerned about those who follow a trend while not liking to do it. They fear that if they don't conform they be ostracised. It goes back to the girl who hates shaving but does it because she believes she will be dumped if she doesn't.

Thank God I've always been immune to peer pressure. Even in High School, if I didn't like what others were doing, I didn't do it. As my dad used to say "if they all jumped off a bridge, would you do it too?" Perhaps this is part of the paternal influence that Kat mentioned.

>>So many boys have been dumped and then embarrassed by exes who pick on them for their size for instance, but how many times to you actually hear about that compared to the ol' shaving issue? << For the record, if every second post here was about boys in that situation, I would raise a rant about that too.

Dress Up Games, Doll Makers and Cartoon Dolls @ The Doll Palace
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Registered: 10-16-2004
Mon, 01-10-2005 - 7:36pm

I agree with Aisha. If a young woman decides to shave, or pierce her nipple or whatever, because SHE wants to, OK. If she does because her SO (and i mean SIGNIFICANT, exlusive parter) likes it, and she wants to please him, and has thought about it, well OK. We all want to please the ones we love.

What I think is odd and sad is when a poster asks, "what do guys like" re: pubic hair or underwear or whatever, as if what is essentially meant to be a private, intimate part of herself is as casually presented as a cool pair of shoes.

The weird part of it is, these girls are still hoping to attract the love of their life, just like their mothers and grandmothers once did, but it seems to me that they're going about it all wrong.

Maybe Kat is right about the father influence (though we don't want to stereotype about intact families). The young women I know that seem like they have their act together seem to have a really good relationship with one or both parents.