cheaters and compassion
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| Sun, 05-29-2005 - 10:58pm |
We have had a recent group of threads about cheating, and many of the replying posts seem to be extremely judgemental in reply.
Could I ask that we take a moment to consider the state of mind of many a cheating woman? Many attacking replies talk about love and respect - but I'm thinking that it would be very difficult to love and respect a partner if you don't love and respect yourself first.
Perhaps the cheating woman is the product of sex abuse or carnal knowledge. Perhaps she grew up in a household without a good male role model. Perhaps she's got so little self esteem that she sleeps around in an effort to feel loved.
When we attack these posters (and let's face it, there have been some blantantly rude posts in reply), are we actually helping these women? If their self esteem is already so low that they sleep around to find acceptance, how will us beating them up further help them? If anything, I think it would do more damage than good.
While I don't for one moment think that posters should condone the cheating, perhaps compassion may be more appropriate than attack? Surely helpful discussion would be more fruitful to help them understand the dynamics of their ways than the attacks that we currently see. Yes, we will get trolls from time to time who discuss cheating just to get a rise out of posters, but we also get real people posting with real issues.
May I remind you of one of the basic rules of humanity? "May those who have never sinned cast the first stone"

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>>If you're smart enough to see the problem, then you're smart enough to fix it w/o sacrificing your dignity, your husband, and your family.<<
I think that many cheaters *think* they can see the problem, but in reality, it goes way deeper than they suspect. Let's look at a women who cheats "because her man doesn't appreciate her". She thinks she knows what the problem is, but in reality, the real problem is "why does she stay in an unhappy marriage?". Again, it probably goes back to insecurity. Or lack of self respect. Perhaps she believes that she's not worth any more? Insecurity, or a lack of self respect and self worth can all influence a cheater.
Also, when we consider those who come here saying "I know what I'm doing" could be them masking insecurity with defensiveness. Deep down, they know that what they are doing is wrong and come here ready to defend themselves from attacks. Our role is then like doing a job in sales. If your customer is defensive up front, the defensiveness is often masking fear. If we let them know that we are listening rather than attacking....they are more likely to let us in when they feel safe.
Cheaters often talk about love. "I still love him" is commonly heard. But I tend to believe that many of these people only think that they are in love. Perhaps they are in love with what used to be....or what could have been. Perhaps they can't even admit to themselves that the love has gone. There is an incredible amount of denial involved in a cheaters mind.
Regarding dignity, some people would feel a great loss of public dignity at a broken marriage. Perhaps loss of their own personl dignity is the lesser (and easier) of the two evils for them. It's not right - but the way it is.
Also, in days past, many couples stayed together "for the sake of the children". And many couples still do it. While I personally believe that being a loving, honest couple who can deal with issues is the best role model for children - different people have different views of what is best for children. Some parents think that it's better to raise children in a dishonest/fake relationship than to be a single parent. I don't agree with it, but I'm not in their shoes - so I don't judge. I think that those parents *believe* that they are doing the best thing for their children, but are blind to the reality that children can sense the underlying tensions.
Yes, I think that most people can be helped and can be made to see the error of their ways, but I don't think that you need to ooze compassion and understanding in every case.
True, it would be difficult if not impossible to define a normal cheater, but I'm sure that a 'normal' cheater is quite aware of what they are doing and of the consequences. It's just that the attention and excitement of the affair pushes aside any thought of those consequences. The reward here and now is what they reach for, not the negative consequences that they will suffer later. It's my opinion that one needs to clearly and quite definitely try to get someone that is cheating to come back to the reality of the situation. Being compassionate isn't my personal choice of messageboard posting style in those situations where we hear from someone in the midst of an affair. Call it tough love if you prefer. They usually post here because they feel that they need advice about their affairs - and they know what the issues are that are facing them yet they delay facing them. They usually need a push to sort it out and see what is the "right" or "best" choice.
What advice would you have been given 10 years ago before you were diagnosed? As you say, it probably wouldn't have been too compassionate. But no-one would have known about the underlying causes of your behaviour. If they had it would have been different. A lot of the time we give advice knowing next to nothing about a person or couple or situation. How can two hundred words describe a complicated situation adequately? Sometimes we will never know all the facts and the issues yet we give advice. I still think that most people do a pretty good job and I'm sure that there are times that the wrong advice is given because of incomplete or biased information. One of the hazards of the job, I guess. We'll never be perfect either.
I suppose you make perfect sense. I'm all out of smart things to say. Rough night with leg cramps.
I will leave the compassionate approach to those who can personally understand this particular situation. I don't understand making the choice to cheat because I've never done it myself.
And I think most people have been neglected, depressed, angry, resentful or cheated on in a relationship at some point, but never took that step, even though many might say it was justified or understandable.
But, because I don't personally relate to doing that, my point of view will be different from those who do. And if I can't muster REAL compassion toward a poster, then I will just offer an honest opinion instead.
I think there is always value in the difference of approaches and thoughts on any board and we need all of them for balance.
Edited 6/1/2005 11:37 am ET ET by katmandoo2001
Hi All,
I think what a lot of this comes down to is the definition of compassion. To me compassion is not some mushy, sympathetic feeling or a condoning of the behavior. To me compassion is simply the ability to know that I will never know what it feels like to be another human being. We all have different experiences, different interpretations based on our culture, our upbringing and our genetics. Compassion is (IMO) simply the knowledge that had my life been different that I could take any action no matter how foolish it seems to others; that includes being the greatest saint to the worst sinner.
So, you can be compassionate and state your opinion as well as condemning the behavior; however, condeming or labeling the other person (they're bad, stupid, unfeeling, evil, selfish, etc. etc.) just has no value because it disconnects you from our common humanity and heals nothing within them or with yourself. Every one of our views is based on a purely unique perspective that can never be completely understood by another.
Peace.
Scott.
As pointed out, we will all feel varying degrees of compassion and sympathy for the individual poster and there is nothing wrong with offering what you can....tea and sympathy or an honest opinion based on the details as they're known. Hearing both can be beneficial to the poster though.
I think there are all different reasons why someone might look outside the relationship for what they can't get in it.
My own parents divorced 13 years ago, when I was 25, after 25 years of marriage. I had a very *very* good childhood and both were good parents to me. It wasn't a life of upheaval and unhappy parents and fights and anger. My mother started up with some guy she'd known before they got married. He's still married, and she's just one of many of his affairs. I'm pretty sure it's still going on, off and on. And I would bet my firstborn that she isn't 'waiting' for him to leave his wife and she wouldn't marry again for anything. She likes her solitude, her way of life now, of not having to answer to anyone or account for anything. And what the divorce did to my sister and I - even as adults - was painful and sad. My family split then and it was never the same. I had much more empathy for my DSD then, believe me. The change in holidays and family celebrations, the inability to talk about certain subjects with each parent, the sore spots and off-limit topics...
But it was fairly common knowledge that she was seeing this man a year or two before they finally divorced. It hurt my dad like anything and he was so desperate to save the marriage and hold onto her. Let me say that I saw both sides of it - not necessarily the cheating, but the reasons why she would be unhappy staying in the marriage and why she felt she needed to leave. But I also saw my dad's horrible, horrible pain. She probably chose - unconsciously or no - the worst possible way to destroy him. I wish so bad that she had left him and *then* gone with this man. I also know the man's wife slightly and she is a lovely person...and I feel very bad for her.
In the following years, I don't think Dad ever got over it. I privately thought many times that she killed him then and what was left was just the shell. When he died two months ago, I know that in spite of his purported anger against her, he loved her still and would have taken her back. I love both my parents, but it was a terrible thing to see his pain for years and there are limited ways a daughter can ease that pain. She did what she had to do apparently - but I wish she had chosen a less painful way for my dad.
To me, the definition of compassion is to listen and try give my assistance without giving judgement.
Regarding giving assistance, I believe the best way to deal with a cheater is to try and help to unravel all the issues that are clouding their judgement.
Dear Tally,
Yours is a story that everyone who is contemplating cheating or who is currently cheating, should read. I think sometimes we forget that decisions that we make in our lives are not made in a vacuum. Every decision has ramifications for those that are in our lives and even those that just touch our lives on the outer edges.
While most people feel guilt when they cheat, often times they create justifications for their actions that somehow makes their partner "Bad" or "deserving" of the actions that they take. The moment that you start to justify an action that you know to be damaging is the first sign that that action shouldn't be taken. Most people are too fearful to leave a relationship, not usually because of finances, but because if they leave they have taken away their "security blanket"...in other words, if this new relationship doesn't work, then they are emotionally unsupported. So sadly, people that are cheating typically wait until this new relationship is firmly established and safe. It's a fear response more than anything. Being fearful is a sad way to spend your life, but so many do.
Thanks for expressing your story Tally.
Peace.
Scott.
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