Expectations of your partner

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-30-2003
Expectations of your partner
54
Thu, 05-20-2004 - 6:40pm

OK, my last question about duration of intercourse seems to have caused quite a bit of confusion on my meaning.

CL-Yasmin1967

May I have the serenity to accept what I cannot change,
the courage to change the things I

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-08-2004
Fri, 05-21-2004 - 3:59pm

First of all Jeep, I am not mad, I don't get mad.

Photobucket
iVillage Member
Registered: 01-08-2003
Fri, 05-21-2004 - 8:05pm
I wish my husband had the same friends you do. He doesn't have any difficulty saying no to me and apparently he isn't ridiculed by his friends about it, lol. Let me preface by saying my husband is a very generous man and does a lot of sweet things for me. But things he doesn't enjoy, he isn't going to do them. He isn't going to a museum for me, or attend jazz festivals. He doesn't like to travel, so I travel with friends. If he doesn't like the food, we don't go to that restaurant and Greek is definitely on his no go list. And he has had no difficulty avoiding oral sex for 21 years and only recently decided to give it a try. I have no idea why he decided to try it. Over the last 22 years I have suggested many sexual acts that he has vetoed. But then I don't want him doing something he doesn't enjoy. There is no pleasure to be gained when one's partner is uncomfortable. I do think double standards do exist, but not in my marriage.

Robin

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Sat, 05-22-2004 - 1:12pm
"Now, I can tell you, that if I insisted that DH's (normal) duration wasn't long enough and pointed him in the direction of the internet or books - he'd be mad, hurt and angry. And I wouldn't blame him. Likewise, if he insisted that I should learn to orgasm via intercourse without fail - I'd be mad too."

THAT is EXACTLY what I truly believe we all agree on. Of course!

Now...when you raise the question of how far you push something within the comfort zone, THAT is a different issue IMHO because your question, in my humble interpretation, refers to an actual gray area. Make sense?

We don't like being pushed. So asking how much would one push the other is mute. BUT, when you insert into it, then we branch off like a fork in the road. Many of us STILL wouldn't push anything because a 'push' is a 'push' no matter what. Others see it as part of getting the partner to learn more, but I still see it as a push.

BTW, I'm agreeing with you.

Now, my true opinion is that there's a sharp difference between learning and being pushed, comfort zone or no. Make sense? Asking once or showing once what I would like is all I do. I don't repeat anything to Mrs. Para if I know its not to her liking OR if she isn't interested in learning that for my benefit.

I hope I got your ? right, lol, I like your thinking cap, always makes us think around here.

:)

:)

 

C  H  A  R  A  C  T  E  R

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Sat, 05-22-2004 - 1:22pm
"I don't enjoy any acts that aren't 100% enjoyed by my partner. I'm just wired that way. If it's not freely given, I don't want it."

What if there was something you really wanted or needed? Would you just suppress your own needs for the rest of your life? or would you at least talk with your partner about it?

What if you had a partner who never bothered to try something for your pleasure (hypothetically speaking for those who DO have that kind of partner)? Would you move on or would you talk more about it or would you just 'enjoy' missing out?

At what length would you discuss it that wouldn't be considered pressure?

Not disagreeing or anything, lol, so don't get me wrong. I'm really curious how you'd handle it though, cause we are just alike, but I'm the type that doesn't just want my own needs, I REALLY want to experience the Mrs. jerking around out control in pure pleasure too. But now what about those who do NOT have that kind of partner? Should they miss out or talk more, and if talking more IS considered pressure...

...then what?

 

C  H  A  R  A  C  T  E  R

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-08-2004
Sat, 05-22-2004 - 1:31pm

<>

Photobucket
iVillage Member
Registered: 10-09-2003
Sat, 05-22-2004 - 4:04pm
Need? If it were a need, I'd make sure that we were compatible on that level in the early stages of first having sex. For instance, a threesome as a need; it would be a dealbreaker for me. A want is not as imperative. If my DH somehow changed his mind and decided that he wanted a threesome, I'd not comply. I'd also probably take it personally, and feel that he wants to have sex with someone else, that I'm not enough excitement for him any longer. I couldn't and wouldn't do it just to please him. The more he'd bring it up, the more I'd feel his want is turning into a need. I personally would not only NOT want to discuss it, but I would probably be affected by the mere fact that he even considered it.

Now, I enjoy being restrained with silk scarves and blindfolded, and my DH does too. We enjoy the tease of it and the sensations when one of our senses is muted(sight), not for control/sub fantasies. It was a fantasy of mine and I did want to do it to him too, but I brought it up by focusing on him doing it to me first. My mother gave me silk scarves many moons ago that she no longer wore, and it was a great lead in. If he didn't want to do it for whatever reason, I would have dropped it. End of story. Same with anal sex. I've always been open to it, but physically I'm not. He apologized for three days after the first try. As far as he was concerned it was a dead issue, and I felt the same way at the time. We'll survive without it if we never succeed. However, I appreciate the fact that he doesn't bring it up, and doesn't make me feel that he's missing out.

I think that we should all responsibly select our partner(for life) by compatibility with respect to what our basic needs are and personality types. It makes for an easier life.

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-29-2003
Sun, 05-23-2004 - 9:11am
>>Society in general has a problem with men saying no to any sex act. Ridicule from women over things like not wanting to perform oral sex on them is common<<

>>A woman who does not like performing oral sex, will not be ridiculed for her saying no to it, where as a guy, it is not the same story.<<

I'm not sure I agree here, jeephead. You say there's a double standard and men are much more pressured. That's not my perception. There may be pressure, but I don't think it's unequally applied. I think both men and women are often under a lot of pressure to perform oral sex. For many of us it's no problem at all since we enjoy it, but I can understand why some have an aversion. Personally I can understand a woman's aversion to oral more than a man's . I think what we men have to do is a far cry from accepting a thick, 6-inch plus thing into your mouth , making you gag, and then him expecting you to swallow when he emits a blob of dubious-tasting goo. Despite this all I hear about is BJs, BJs, BJs, with far less emphasis on going down on a woman.

taoist

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-29-2003
Sun, 05-23-2004 - 9:56am
>>1. women wanting their men to last longer during intercourse and 2. men who want their women to orgasm during intercourse.<<

>>Now, I can tell you, that if I insisted that DH's (normal) duration wasn't long enough and pointed him in the direction of the internet or books - he'd be mad, hurt and angry. And I wouldn't blame him. Likewise, if he insisted that I should learn to orgasm via intercourse without fail - I'd be mad too.<<

Yasmin, I think it's interesting that you raised this particular point and expressed your (and your DH's) reaction to it. I happen to believe that these two areas are very much linked. When I read on your thread about duration of intercourse how many experienced the 3-5 minute time frame for intercourse , I got the feeling that there is a definite cause/effect relationship between this and the woman's ability to orgasm during intercourse. It seems to me that this "3-5 min" statistic would go a long way towards explaining the "80/20" statistic for women's orgasms. This is why I always felt the man's role in providing the right kind and enough stimulation was critical for a woman to orgasm. So if a man wanted his woman to orgasm, then the first step would be to extend the time and type of stimulation. On the woman's part I'm not sure how much she can "learn". For her the most important ingredients would be to relax, enjoy, and have a postitive attitude (which is why I always objected to the CAN'T argument)

On both of these issues, the books, internet, etc., the "informational" side is rather small. You can get the information you need in a very short time. It's the "applied" side and the practice that will be 95% of the effort. In this case you're back to the two partners experimenting and communicating with each other. If both of them want to, fine; if not, there's no need to fix it.

taoist

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Sun, 05-23-2004 - 2:51pm
Okay, lets try it this way.

John & Jane Doe. Here we go.

John & Jane "responsibly" chose each other over all others and have been together compatibly for some time now. Later on, she decides that she is a-okay with him using manual stimulation of her during foreplay, but she's unfortunately discovering that its become just too ordinary for her and she is reaching that point of not enjoying it anymore.

She decides to raise the idea of cunnilingus, but he refuses after trying it a couple of times. His issue was that it wasn't enjoyable for "him" and that he wasn't comfortable with her constant guides on how to do it more pleasurably for her...which we all agree there was nothing wrong with her trying to show him.

The longer time passes, the less interested she is in sex all together, it is now something that is "needed" for her to enjoy sex. She really wants this and it isn't 'his place' to "correct" what she feels she needs...nor is it any of ours.

SOOOO, what is it that she should do? She shouldn't force him, but at the same time, should she dump him? Course not. So we're either talking about at least discussing it more or just her not getting what she she needs during foreplay or during sex for that matter. Remember, they were truly happy at first, but just like all of us, her needs over time became different because of the same ol' thing situation. She chose her partner responsibly, but instead of him being more open-minded and willing to try more or at least willing to understand why she needed this, he "chose the freedom" to refuse to even go that far...his choice. In the meantime, DOES NOT mean that anyway.

See my point now?

So what would a lady like that or a couple like that do? Because if sex becomes less and less pleasurable for her, then what most likely happens next???

If ANYbody wants to jump in on this, I'm ready to learn what y'all would do. I picked a partner that is just as selfless as I am so she and I are pretty much set because we are "freely" adaptable to the inevitable changes and/or metamorphosises that our sex life goes through, but what about those that are rarely or even never into pleasing the partner FULLY to the partners "needs" that SIGNIFICANTLY affect sex life? What about THOSE relationships?

I don't believe in a cure all answer in this case and that its up to each relationship, but when we say don't push and don't do it if you don't want and dump the one who stresses and this or that...well those freedom of choice answers may SEEM agreeable to us all, BUT there are still consequences that truly could've been avoided by loving sacrifice.

Again, in MY marriage, many times my love for my wife is expressed by "choosing" to do for her what SHE needs (again, so long as its significantly needed for her sexual enjoyment and does NOT break the rules of a monogamous relationship, including anything harmful) even if its considered by others to be a sacrifice--meaning enjoyment for her and not much if any at all for me during those specific times--this as opposed to me showing love for her ONLY when I get equal enjoyment out of it. Sacrifice is a significant part of marriage and that CERTAINLY includes pleasing each other as well.

But again, what about those like John & Jane Doe as mentioned above? What now?

...........

 

C  H  A  R  A  C  T  E  R

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Sun, 05-23-2004 - 3:09pm
You know, you have a point regarding the man's role in proper or sufficient stimulation of the woman or even during intercourse, but I dare to disagree that duration of intercourse 'always' has a role in her intercourse orgasm though. Now I know you never said it did, but for anyone who thinks duration is ALWAYS a factor...I think I disagree.

I FINALLY saw Mrs. Para earlier this morning (bleeping work schedules) and we made up for lost time. I guess I went too far with going down on her (we're both still recovering from this morning...LOL!!), so she was OVERheated--sorta speak--and incapable of handling intercourse at all! Whoa!

What matters is that she was MORE THAN satisfied without it, so I DO agree with stimulation being a or at times being the key factor for intercourse--if making it that far, LOL!!--as opposed to duration.

There are times when I've got her so drunk with pleasure and wound up that she'll burst 2 or 3 times in what feels like just the first few minutes before I even get close to it myself. Then there are other times when she's just too senstive from bursting during foreplay that she can't handle intercourse at all. For certain though, I believe that its more effective for women to orgasm BEFORE intercourse for a more satisfying time.

As usual everybody, I say that out of my own humble guess and would welcome correction on it. I'm only going by my own marriage experience, so lemme have it if you have something to teach me. ;)

 

C  H  A  R  A  C  T  E  R