Expectations of your partner

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-30-2003
Expectations of your partner
54
Thu, 05-20-2004 - 6:40pm

OK, my last question about duration of intercourse seems to have caused quite a bit of confusion on my meaning.

CL-Yasmin1967

May I have the serenity to accept what I cannot change,
the courage to change the things I

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-09-2003
Sun, 05-23-2004 - 3:14pm
I would hope that John is completely honest with himself at all times so if Jane expresses a need, he'd comply "to the best of his ability." That Jane should trust that John loves her enough to comply to the best of his ability. TRUST is the utmost in any relationship. If my DH stopped giving me oral after trying, I would commnicate to him clearly(with understanding) how I feel, and then I would TRUST that he'd love me enough to do what he can to satifisy me. If that means no more oral, then I have to respect that he just doesn't want to do it. There'd be no resentment, because of that trust.
iVillage Member
Registered: 10-09-2003
Sun, 05-23-2004 - 3:22pm
...one more thing, I know you meant it as a hypothetical, but how exactly does one stop enjoying manual? How exactly does one stop enjoying any aspect of sex? There's really a very limited amount of things you can do. Manual, oral, intercourse. I've been having sex for 30 years and manual never loses it's flavor. ;-)
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-18-2004
Sun, 05-23-2004 - 5:31pm
Personally, I would push it a bit. I am human, and I *would* resent not getting something I felt was reasonable. It's not just because I wouldn't get it, but not even trying to really hear my side or go the extra mile for my sake would hurt my feelings. I don't think trust has anything to do with it. I'm human with human emotions. Right now my DH is going to school, and because of our circumstances I have to wait until he is finished to go. Yeah, it bugs me. Even though I know logically that it makes the most sense for us, it still gets to me. I think a little push is a good thing. DH and I have both pushed each other outside our comfort zones. But, only on things that aren't harmful. DH wanted to watch me masturbate, and that was a difficult one for me. It wasn't anything unreasonable, so I told him give me some time to work up the nerve and I would. I am glad he pushed me to do it, because it has opened a new aspect of sex for me/us. It also broke my inhibitions, and my whole attitude towards sex changed for the better. I don't understand posters who think that love and trust shield you from emotions that are normal(I am not speaking about anyone in particular here). I would take a bullet for my husband, but if he told me that he didn't want to perform oral on me anymore because he didn't get squat out of it, I would be hurt and a little resentful.

Leticia

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-09-2003
Sun, 05-23-2004 - 5:40pm
Oh, I believe I misunderstood. I was looking at it from the perspective of a partner who found the act unpleasant. For example a woman who doesn't want to swallow or a man who doesn't want to give oral because they dislike it. In that case, I don't feel that pushing a person or making a person like it, is reasonable. I think that most people would WANT to please their partner, so if it's something which they don't get much out of, but don't dislike, they'll most likely comply. I don't think that anyone should be made to do anything they dislike though.


Edited 5/23/2004 7:14 pm ET ET by free_to_choose
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 05-24-2004 - 5:05am
Quote from Leticia...

"I would take a bullet for my husband, but if he told me that he didn't want to perform oral on me anymore because he didn't get squat out of it, I would be hurt and a little resentful."

...does identify my point. Remember, Free, I did say...

"His issue was that it wasn't enjoyable for "him" and that he wasn't comfortable with her constant guides on how to do it more pleasurably for her...which we all agree there was nothing wrong with her trying to show him."

...so my question to you was "what then?"--but that was in regards to AS OPPOSED TO . See the difference?

Now one thing you did say that caught my eye was...

"If that means no more oral, then I have to respect that he just doesn't want to do it."

Keep in mind that I was using oral as simply an example and thats all, so far so good? In other words, think of something for YOU that would fit this example. If you are okay with manual but no oral, then that works for YOU but that may "bore" other women outta there minds. So the was what do you suggest for those OTHER women who DO need it to keep sex pleasurable for them.

Remember, those women are NOT in the wrong for having their needs (again I say this as opposed to "wants") to keep sex pleasurable just like the men have their RIGHT to not try simply because they don't feel like it (keep in mind that those type of men delete any discussion of "trust to do their best").

I DO believe there is such a thing as changing needs and also changing appetites. Heck, why not stretch this discussion into overall sex for that matter? Try this...

What if a guy just doesn't feel like having sex as often as the couple use to? The wife needs it more than twice per month, LOL!, but the husband just simply doesn't and has CHOSEN--with his rightful freedom--to not bother (so now this negates "fixing" his problem, whatever it is, because he has "CHOSEN" not to deal with it anyway). SOOOO...should she "push" him on the issue some more or should she respect his CHOICE and simply ignore her own needs??? What about those couples that rarely have sex AT ALL anymore just because one partner CHOOSES not to, even though they very physically can??? What should they do?

Obviously there's always going to be a gray area in this subject if we preach "respect one's choice" without remembering the consequences of not pushing or dealing with an issue at all. Again, thats just my humble opinion based on my own experience. Gotta admit the number of posts online here from women who complain about this sooo much though too.

So when a partner displays no sense of sacrifice for the other, via "choosing" to stay as is regardless the 'need' or even changes in sex/appetite/schedules that have occured, should the other clam up and respect that choice and remain unfulfilled forever?...OOOOR...should that partner at least 'encouragingly' push the issue some???

Keep in mind that I'm referring to the partner's needs, so long as its within monogamy and doesn't cause harm. This isn't about anal or swallowing or threesomes, but then again, to respect one's CHOICE to do or not do something is just as respectful as respecting that the other has those needs anyway...period...even if those needs are not to the other's liking. We can all agree right now that certain things should NOT be needed to enjoy sex...BUT...who are we to dictate that for ALL people?!

Of COURSE we're all thankful that we're with a partner compatible to ourselves, BUT if that compatibility doesn't include room for adjustments to changing appetites/needs, simply because of the 'choice' not to, then what? Again, what if foreplay was NOT being done for 'her' anymore at all simply because HE exercised his RIGHT to choose not to and was unwilling to learn effective techniques to make it pleasurable for him as well? Should she pipe down and blindly respect his choice, or should she address it? So again, how do we NOT push an issue here and there?

 

C  H  A  R  A  C  T  E  R

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-09-2003
Mon, 05-24-2004 - 7:20am
Of course, giving your SO the freedom to choose, will allow them to be doing exactly what they want at all times. If you constantly approach your SO and they turn you down, then they are doing what they choose to do. They don't want to have sex. I wouldn't push them to have sex, but I would push to find out why they don't want sex. There's the difference. I would tell them how I feel, and explain my needs and how their actions affect mine. That's all that you can do, really. Most likely there's a reason. People just don't stop wanting to have sex with their SO's for no reason at all. Hopefully the reason is rectifiable. If the SO continues to choose the behavior then you can pretty much gather that they're not going to change(on their own). You then have to make your decisions on what you can and can't accept(depending on his reasons), and what you're going to do. I know that I wouldn't want my SO having sex with me, if he didn't want to. I'd rather find out why he didn't want to.

Since people are doing what they WANT to do most of the time, then by letting them decide for themselves uninterrupted, you can understand them better....and you'll know when there's a problem. If my SO had sex with me even though he didn't want to, I might be happier in my oblivion, but I'd never know that I was having sex with a man that was doing it in spite of not wanting to. BTW, I would have sex with my DH even if I wasn't in the mood, because I want to, and choose to, not because he makes me.


iVillage Member
Registered: 04-08-2004
Mon, 05-24-2004 - 10:44am
GOOD POINT. I really like that one. So many times we see our own sexes issues, and really don't know, or understand the other side of the coin. It becomes such a tunnel vision look at the rolls we play in society. Thank you for the info Leticia. That was very well stated, and well introduced. Thanks again

Matt

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-08-2004
Mon, 05-24-2004 - 10:58am
True to a degree Taoist, but I was using BJ's as an example. It goes much deeper and wide spread then that. There are so many issues that we can apply the label of double standard too. I agree that the pressures are applied equally on somethings, but then on others, there is no standard by which to apply, and therefore, we cannot really say one way or the other. I know of a few other examples, but they can all be said otherwise. It is just an issue that society has created.
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-08-2004
Mon, 05-24-2004 - 11:17am
This is what I was referring to in my earlier post. If I were John, I would do it. Why? Because the love for my SO outweighs my aversion. I am not above doing anything, if it is pleasurable to my SO, and she really wants it, then I am really willing to provide it for her. If it is something I am so adverse to that I will not, then we talk about it, and I explain why I am so adverse to it, and the subject is dropped. Same goes for her, but there is a grey area with her that does not exist with me. She was married for 17 years, and just before we met had been through the breakup of an adulterous marriage. Her ex husband cheated on her, finally told her, and left her. She was crushed. It was as if her whole world caved in. When I finally came into her life, she was strung out from lack of sleep, malnurished, and still very emotionally drained and a wreck. I spent several years putting her back together again, and I think she is doing well now. She sees that although I was just like her ex in that I cheated heavily on my ex wife, I am not going to hurt her like that. I have proven my love for her, and had to do it constantly. One of the many ways I do it though, is by doing anything, and everything she askes me to in sex. Only telling her NO, I will not do that, once in the entire 4 years we have been together. And in turn allowing her the comfort zone to say no herself. After this time she is opened up quite a bit, from gentle nudges, and comments regarding things. Playing in the grey areas, to find out how far she is willing to go. And almost everytime, being surprised by her reaction, or the outcome. So, I would have to say that in the situation you described, I would just do it, and let her see that I am not above her pleasure, or her needs.
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-08-2004
Mon, 05-24-2004 - 11:34am
I have a hard time believing that, but, I can accept it. No resentment though??? I don't know. It just seems to me that if you are in love with someone, you break your own rules at times, to be with them. You cross your own boundaries, to please them, and you push yourself, farther, and farther, to better please, understand, or accept your partner. It doesn't make any sense to me to have someone say NO to something, and that it never be brought up again. My SO loves me enough to push herself, and push her limits, boundaries, etc. She knows I am a lot more wild than I have let out so far, and she wants to work towards being as comfortable in bed with me, as she is while walking around the mall with me. Once she accepted that I was not "normal" in my likes and dislikes, she started pushing me herself, or talking to me about things. That is when we really started to work on our sex life, and making it more than what it was. If we never pushed, or ever did anything accept taking NO, and leaving it at that, then what is the point of continueing. I don't see very many. Yes, you can love the person as much as you like, and accept them for who they are, but you cannot remove a feeling, need, want, etc. I don't think it works that way. If you both agree to not do something, that is one thing, but if one wants, and the other doesn't, then something must be done to compromise, or resentment can set in. One persons feelings cannot rule a relationship, nor a sex life. It takes two to make it work, it only takes one to make it fail.