first time sex - i beg to differ

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-29-2004
first time sex - i beg to differ
33
Wed, 09-01-2004 - 4:29am
Hi, I've been lurking on this board and reading old posts - and learning a ton!

I'm a little troubled by some comments I've seen about first-time sex on old threads. People saying that it's not normal to feel pain the first time, and if you do then you're not doing it right somehow (you're not relaxed, you're not aroused, you're not lubricated, etc). I've got to say, I find all these comments a little demeaning. Personally, I had a pretty thick hymen. It wasn't abnormal - my gyn reassured me at the time - but it was pretty thick, and it took a good bit of force to break through the first time.

Hymenal tissue is not flexible, the way vaginal walls are. Your hymen does not expand when you're aroused. Back when I had a hymen, I could stimulated myself to orgasm, and it wouldn't expand in the least. In many women, the hymen is fairly thin and it doesn't take much force to stretch it out, or it's absent altogether, so those women don't experience pain from stretching or tearing their hymen the first time. If that was you - well, lucky you. But don't go telling other women they're abnormal because they're hymen is thicker than yours was. (I mean, when someone complains about her gag reflex during oral sex, you don't tell her it's all in her head just because you yourself don't happen to suffer from a sensitive gag reflex - right?)

In my case, yes, the first time was quite painful. Believe me, I was perfectly well lubricated and aroused. I know my body quite well, thank you, and so did my partner (we'd been in a 2-year relationship at the time and had been engaging in "everything but" for quite a while). It wasn't due to a lack of foreplay. It wasn't due to a lack of trust. It wasn't due to any other vaguely insulting psychological explanations you care to throw at me.

People, when you've got a thick hymen, breaking/stretching it really does HURT!!!

And it's a different sort of pain than you get when you're not lubricated enough. It feels like... well, how to describe it... stick two fingers in your nostril and stretch the opening. Now imagine you had to stretch it out big enough to accommodate a penis. Granted, hymenal tissue is definitely more flexible than nose cartilage, but that's the sort of sensation we're talking about. Is that how it feels when you're just not lubricated enough?

Just my two cents. So many people have pain with first intercourse, and it makes me angry to see women dismissing other women's pain as non-existent or unnatural.

Thanks for indulging me. End of rant. :)






iVillage Member
Registered: 10-18-2001
Wed, 09-01-2004 - 6:15pm
Interesting discussion. Shall we have that poll then? I'll just whip a couple up.
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-23-2004
Wed, 09-01-2004 - 6:59pm

A good article on the hymen, how it can be torn, first time sex that is painful, etc.


http://aloofhosting.com/tomrue/health/hymen.htm






~Tish


bounxh0a-1.gif picture by dillbyrd

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-30-2004
Thu, 09-02-2004 - 10:28pm
It is funny that one never sees any quantitative statements about hymens, such as what percentage of women experience tearing or stretching during first intercourse or what percentage have ruptured their hymens previously. There is always the party-line statement about how "many" women rupture their hymens during other physical activity and "some" women are born with little hymenal tissue and how you therefore can't tell if a woman is a virgin by presence or absence of a hymen or bleeding at first intercourse. But how many? WHat does "many" or "some" mean exactly? 80%? 8%? 0.1%? I can think of two possibile explanations for this lack of information. 1) There is no data. This could be because it is hard, especially for Americans to get money to study something "improper" and there aren't a lot of researchers who will risk their career to look into a topic like this. There could also be difficulties obtaining samples for the survey. Most virgins are young, and so there are ethical issues with examining them using an invasive procedure for the purposes of research into sexuality. There could be a concern that many older reporting virgins might not be truthfull (a problem with any survey of a personal nature) or women with overl thick hymens might be more likely to remain virgins, thereby biasing the sample. Virgins are less likely to be having gynecological exams in the first place, so they are probably more difficult to recruit. The second possibility, is that data is not pollitically correct. If a large percentage of women have intact hymens prior to first intercourse and they experience subsequent tearing, than maybe the sexuality media refrains from reporting that to protect women from having their virginity judged by the presence or absence of a hymen. Perhaps the numbers show that it is not a reliable indicator of virginity, but perhaps they show that it would work often enough to cause some people to make assumptions based on that. I really have no idea. It just makes me wonder.

-phat

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-02-2004
Thu, 09-02-2004 - 11:20pm
Why would it matter? A hymen is insignificant and should remain so. I was very young when I was devirginalized by a well-endowed young man. I do remember feeling burning, somewhat very much like that of the stretching/burning that occurred at childbirth. I didn't bleed, nor rip but I do remember feeling slight pain inside(in hindsight I know I wasn't aroused enough). I really couldn't say if I had a hymen or not(I never looked), nor did I care. I masturbated very young and had a very active childhood which may have eliminated it, I'm not sure.

Most of my friends had similar first sexual experiences equal to mine. (we shared every single detail). With my experience and those of my friends, I would probably tell my own daughters as well as any other girls that they shouldn't be concerned about whether or not they have one, or whether it's in tact or not. That it really shouldn't even be a thought unless and until it need be(during difficult penetration).

There probably aren't any studies, because it's not important enough to research. Most girls/women will learn by the experiences of others by reading, their parents, and their friends about what to possibly expect. Losing your virginity is a natural occurence in life and should be treated as such.








Edited 9/2/2004 11:29 pm ET ET by the_fixer_upper

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-30-2004
Fri, 09-03-2004 - 12:52am
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lol. I guess some people don't have inquiring minds. I asked because I am curious. I want to know because I am fascinated by a) sex. b) biology including adaptation, sociobiology, and evolution c)the scientific process. d). the way scientific information and investigations present in public perception. e) sexual politics, gender roles, and discrimination. This issue encompasses all of these facets. As an aspiring scientist that works in non anthropocentric fields, I am constantly having to defend my curiousity and priorities to people who live in an insulated shopping mall MTV world who think that it is an accident that they live in a world of luxury and convenience and health. All of the knowledge about human behaviour, sociology, agriculture, medicine, disease control, water quality, natural resources (seafood, wood, paper, gas, oil, coal, etc), and the environment comes from people who were curious about the natural world. Everything that you do and in fact your very existance has and will continue to rest on scientific understanding. Each particle of understanding, helps us to build the collective human understanding of the universe which in turn enriches us all both intelectually and practically. Sorry if this it seems like I am getting too grandiose about such a little thing, but this sort of stuff just drives me nuts. Every important discovery and aspect of understanding rests on thousands of theories, experiments, and discussions of things that some person could argue "doesn't really matter".

From a more immediatly practical standpoint, the question the range and frequency of hymenal morphologies and the effects of intercourse is very important for forensic determination of sexual assault cases. That is an important issue of safety and justice.

Also, many people care about this issue. Therefore it is important. That may sound circular but so be it.

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-29-2004
Fri, 09-03-2004 - 1:55am
i see nothing wrong whatsoever with women being aware of the state of their own bodies. political correctness goes too far when we downplay the existence of a natural piece of the female anatomy, for fear that it be given too much significance.

in my own case, i had no idea my hymen was intact. i'd never used a tampon. i'd always masturbated using only my clitoris. curiosity had led me to feel around my vulva, but i had been unable to find a hole large enough to permit my finger. i had assumed that the hole would open when i was "in the moment" (based on the party line that first-time sex should only hurt a lot if you're not aroused enough).

if i'd been aware of the fact that my hymen was intact and fairly extensive, i think my first time would have been much less traumatic. it still would have hurt like the dickens of course, but at least i would've had some idea what to expect!

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-02-2004
Fri, 09-03-2004 - 9:51am
So it is your belief that we should subject girls from a very young age to vaginal examinations to study the hymen? That every woman should be taught to periodically check herself for the state of her hymen? That it would be wise prior to having intercourse to be examined by a medical doctor to advise about the condition of your hymen?

The point is, it would most likely be too difficult a task to obtain enough accurate information. A subject's activities would have to be scrutinized daily, along with a daily physical examination to determine what was the point and cause of rupture. It might be interesting to know exactly what causes a hymen to rupture(and there are already some causes documented), but I don't think that women will stop riding bycicles or activities to "protect" it because as I said, it's too insignificant to worry about. Those who didn't have bleeding, tearing, or pain, during first intercourse could probably assume that somewhere during their 18 or so years they ruptured their hymen....and it didn't hurt enough for them to take note of when it had.

While we're at it, I think science would serve us better to study the effects of circumcision on the penis. I'm curious to know how an in tact penis differs in sensitivity from a cut one. I think that boys should volunteer to be watched daily(their masturbatory habits) so that many babies could be spared the knife. Now that would be a SIGNIFICANT study.


Edited 9/3/2004 9:53 am ET ET by the_fixer_upper

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-02-2004
Fri, 09-03-2004 - 10:07am
By all means, every woman has the right to be examined by a doctor if she herself feels it's important to her. None of the people that I know have taught their daughters to examine themselves for the state of their hymens. Nothing to do with political correctness, it simply wasn't significant enough for them to concern themselves. I think it's wise to "warn" women of the "potential" happenings during first time intercourse, in case their hymen is still in tact and be thankful if it's not. If a woman wants to definitely know that she has an in tact hymen, then it would be wise to have it confirmed. It won't change the experience in any event, what will be will be. A woman who has never had intercourse should assume that it's present(and prepare for the worst) and hope that it's not.
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-23-2004
Fri, 09-03-2004 - 11:48am

<<>>


Am I understanding this correctly?


bounxh0a-1.gif picture by dillbyrd

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-29-2004
Fri, 09-03-2004 - 5:40pm
"I think it's wise to "warn" women of the "potential" happenings during first time intercourse, in case their hymen is still in tact and be thankful if it's not"

yep, that's all i'm saying. in your previous post, you said you wouldn't even mention it to your own daughters unless and until they encountered a problem (i'm paraphrasing - but i believe that's what you were saying, and what i was responding to).

"It won't change the experience in any event, what will be will be."

this i disagree with. i wept for hours after my first time. the pain couldn't have been avoided, but a lot of the emotional turmoil could have. a lot of the questions... "did i damage something?" "is there something wrong with me?" "will i never be able to have a normal sexual relationship?" etc. all competely avoidable if someone had warned me in advance.