first time sex - i beg to differ
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| Wed, 09-01-2004 - 4:29am |
I'm a little troubled by some comments I've seen about first-time sex on old threads. People saying that it's not normal to feel pain the first time, and if you do then you're not doing it right somehow (you're not relaxed, you're not aroused, you're not lubricated, etc). I've got to say, I find all these comments a little demeaning. Personally, I had a pretty thick hymen. It wasn't abnormal - my gyn reassured me at the time - but it was pretty thick, and it took a good bit of force to break through the first time.
Hymenal tissue is not flexible, the way vaginal walls are. Your hymen does not expand when you're aroused. Back when I had a hymen, I could stimulated myself to orgasm, and it wouldn't expand in the least. In many women, the hymen is fairly thin and it doesn't take much force to stretch it out, or it's absent altogether, so those women don't experience pain from stretching or tearing their hymen the first time. If that was you - well, lucky you. But don't go telling other women they're abnormal because they're hymen is thicker than yours was. (I mean, when someone complains about her gag reflex during oral sex, you don't tell her it's all in her head just because you yourself don't happen to suffer from a sensitive gag reflex - right?)
In my case, yes, the first time was quite painful. Believe me, I was perfectly well lubricated and aroused. I know my body quite well, thank you, and so did my partner (we'd been in a 2-year relationship at the time and had been engaging in "everything but" for quite a while). It wasn't due to a lack of foreplay. It wasn't due to a lack of trust. It wasn't due to any other vaguely insulting psychological explanations you care to throw at me.
People, when you've got a thick hymen, breaking/stretching it really does HURT!!!
And it's a different sort of pain than you get when you're not lubricated enough. It feels like... well, how to describe it... stick two fingers in your nostril and stretch the opening. Now imagine you had to stretch it out big enough to accommodate a penis. Granted, hymenal tissue is definitely more flexible than nose cartilage, but that's the sort of sensation we're talking about. Is that how it feels when you're just not lubricated enough?
Just my two cents. So many people have pain with first intercourse, and it makes me angry to see women dismissing other women's pain as non-existent or unnatural.
Thanks for indulging me. End of rant. :)

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I only meant that I wouldn't want them to be obsessed or worried about it, and that the ONLY time that it should be thought about is when they are about to have intercourse for the first time.
"It won't change the experience in any event, what will be will be."
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What I meant is that even if you were NOT ignorant about what to POSSIBLY expect during first-time intercourse, it won't change what you experienced physically, although it would benefit you emotionally. That's what's so great about boards such as this. It's a place to learn what others have already experienced so it takes the sting out and helps to demystify our bodies. So a young woman or man reading this thread will understand more about the hymen and understand that if they didn't bleed, or rip, or feel pain, they're perfectly normal because not every woman has an in tact hymen for a myriad of reasons.
No, I would never NOT discuss something that is a natural part of the life process.
Of course not. That would be invasive and unethical. I don't think you understand what I said. I wasn't advocating routine hymen observations at all. It isn't even necessary to do that to answer the most of the questions posed. What could be investigated is the state of women's hymens before and after first intercourse, or the age range during which that typically occurs. You are aware that medical research on humans is routinely conducted? It is volunteer based. Usually participants are compensated in some way (often monetarily). An example is a study done on adolescent girls with or with out previous sexual experiance that were recruited from urban medical centers and most agreed to participate in order to further scientific knowledge on the subject in the hopes that the information could be applied to sexual assualt investigations and prosecutions (Adams JA, Botash AS, Kellogg N Differences in hymenal morphology between adolescent girls with and without a history of consensual sexual intercourse ARCHIVES OF PEDIATRICS & ADOLESCENT MEDICINE 158 (3): 280-285 MAR 2004).
A point about children and medical research: children are understudied as it is. I think we need more research on children. There are thousands of children denied treatments because said treatments were never approved for use with children. Even worse, sometimes understudied treatments can lead to horrific side effects or death in children (eg Asprin which was found out about the hard way). If a biological issue affects children, it should be studied in children, where it is reasonable to do so.
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I believe I mentioned this.
<> Your hypothetical research programme is a lot more ambitious than mine would be.
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I agree, but actually, the effects of circumcision have been extensively studied. The glans of an uncircumsized penis is much more sensitive than that on a circumcized penis. I'm pretty sure tHat has been established. Funny how little impact real information has on some people's choices. JMHO
-phat
SOmetimes they can. Often times the results will be ambiguous. For example if a woman reports a rape (including intercourse) but does not have a visible hymen, then that evidense would neither support of detract from her claims. She may have never had one, or lost it some other way, or through consensual sex. If she had an imperforate hymen, that would disprove her allegations. Whether or not it is actually possible to show whether a woman or girl has experienced intercourse via hymenal morphology is currently being studied for just that reason. Researchers are trying to find out if thay can confirm previous sexual intercourse or lack of it, and how accurate these approaches might be. This type of evidense will be most usefull in child/young adolescent sexual abuse cases where there is little chance of consensual sex. The results of these studies will have imporant impacts on sexual assault investigations in some cases. Obviously it won't apply to most cases, but it could be important for many. The results vary between studies. Some show that this approacj can be quite accurate: Jones JS, Dunnuck C, Rossman L, et al.
Adolescent Foley catheter technique for visualizing hymenal injuries in adolescent sexual assault
ACADEMIC EMERGENCY MEDICINE 10 (9): 1001-1004 SEP 2003
some show that it is innacurate :Adams JA, Botash AS, Kellogg N
Differences in hymenal morphology between adolescent girls with and without a history of consensual sexual intercourse ARCHIVES OF PEDIATRICS & ADOLESCENT MEDICINE 158 (3): 280-285 MAR 2004
Some show that it doesn't reall work at all: Kellogg ND, Menard SW, Santos A
Genital anatomy in pregnant adolescents: "Normal" does not mean "nothing happened"
PEDIATRICS 113 (1): E67-E69 JAN 2004
The differences seem to be mostly due to technique. Some are pretty sophisticated because it is apparently difficult to actually see and measure the shape of a hymen.
regardless, this sort of information is often used in court cases, and is often wrongly interpreted (a study I lost the reference of).
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I don't think you are correct here.
I hope that I clarified some of the things I said.
-phat
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