The "Illegal Substitution"

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-03-2004
The "Illegal Substitution"
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Tue, 08-03-2004 - 10:23am
We men can be shallow at times, we'll admit that, especially when it comes to sex. We sometimes will blame evolution and the idea of procreation, yadda yadda yadda. So, with that fully admitted, I would like to ask a shallow question;

When having sex with your spouse or significant other, do women also make mental illegal substitions and picture someone else who should be considered very inappropriate? By this I don't mean Tom Cruise, Mel Gibson..etc., I mean close friends or a close friend's spouse or significant other.

I doubt women do this one, as a female friend that I recently told was pretty appalled by this one, but we guys picture almost every woman naked at one time or another. Sometimes it just flashes in there and we didn't mean to picture it (if you ever see a guy at the grocery store make an odd face, he probably pictured someone naked that he clearly did not want to). I think this rarely comes up in a conversation because the guy would have to admit that he probably pictures "you" naked. We guys don't really talk about this in this way, but we will privately talk about the women in our circles, ie "Sara's looking pretty good lately" or "Is she wearing some kind of wonderbra".

A little rambling up there, but I guess my direct question would be - How often do women think sexually about the guys that they know, some of which are married or dating? Not how often do you discuss it, but how often is it thought? For example, I have a good friend whose wife and I seem (and it could be just in my head) to have some kind of sexual tension thing (or maybe it's just normal tension, lol). Not that I would ever think about pursuing anything as she is not only married, but to a close friend. I don't think that I have ever let on that I think she's hot, but have clearly used her as an illegal substitution, or at least wondered what it would be like with her, do women do this?

I guess I'm going with the premise that "Attraction is not a Choice"


Again, please don't say that we men are shallow, we've accepted that long long ago, I'm just looking for complete honesty here. And, for whatever it's worth, I will not use my new found knowledge for diabolical purposes, this is just for educational purposes only!

Thanks




Edited 8/3/2004 10:28 am ET ET by thenobleman

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iVillage Member
Registered: 07-22-2004
Tue, 08-03-2004 - 10:47am
Of course the ladies can speak for themselves, but many boards have actually reported that many (not all) women do it too, and that it wasn't really as uncommon as myth would suggest. I forgot exactly what a cosmo poll said about this once, so I'll have to get Mrs. Para's help in finding that again if its still available. Interesting question though. WOW!, very worded too nobleman, LOL!! ;D

C h a r a c t e r


above all else


Mr. Para

 

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Avatar for katmandoo2001
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Tue, 08-03-2004 - 11:11am
No, I don't. Other men may show up in my mind when I'm self stimulating but most of the time, not even then but certainly, not during sex with my DH. After all, I have the real live person I love right THERE, why do I need to fantasize?

Now, your other question is different, IMO. Of course, women notice attractive men, and may even wonder about them sexually, but for me, that's not the same. When I'm with my DH, I'm WITH my DH. But I realize that men are wired differently in many regards.

And I'm sorry but my DH doesn't discuss the attributes of his female co-workers/employees with male cohorts, as you described. He never has. He may THINK it, but he doesn't verbalize it.


Edited 8/3/2004 11:15 am ET ET by katmandoo2001

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-18-2004
Tue, 08-03-2004 - 11:37am
Yes I have, men and women. And I'm with Kat, in that my DH doesn't talk about women with friends and co-workers, that is disrespectful to me.

Leticia

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-27-2004
Tue, 08-03-2004 - 2:02pm
"Illegal Substitution"??? That sounds like something that happens on a football field!

It's called "fantasizing", and I don't think there's a human being that hasn't done that on occasion, some more than others! Fantasizing is usually a result of our sub-conscious, and we don't have much control over that. I don't think it makes much difference if it's Tom Cruise, or it's the next-door neighbor. As long as the fantasizer knows the difference between fantasy and reality. It's no different than a "wet dream", which both men and women have on occasion. It happens, it's not something that you plan, it just happens.

When you're talking about an "attraction" to someone inappropriate, that's a whole different ball game. That's something that you actively allow and promote. It can also get you in a lot of trouble, as you seem to know. That's not sub-concious, that's VERY conscious, and it IS under your control. Maybe "attraction" isn't a choice, but your response to that attraction is very MUCH your choice!

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-15-2003
Tue, 08-03-2004 - 2:55pm
Hi Nobleman,

Obviously I'm not a woman, but just had to chime in. I don't do the "illegal Substitution" (hilarious name by the way!) when I am with my wife. Even masturbating It's always about her (what we have done or what I would like to do with her). However, I do find other women attractive, and will occassionally undress them with my eye. But not during sex with my wife; I'm too focused on the moment.

I liked what Greenteabag said though (I'm paraphrasing) "We all have attractions to people, it's what we do with that attraction that's important." I couldn't agree more. I think it's important not to feed attractions to people other than your SO; doing that scatters your sexual energy so that you can't focus it toward making the two of you closer. What I mean by "feeding" is allowing ourselves to delve into deep fantasy. I think it's best to just notice the attraction that you have, appreciate that you're human and have the capacity to feel these things, and then just let the attraction pass away like any other thought. It's when you become attached to the fantasy that there are problems; for some reason humans start to believe their own thoughts and then get all tied up in them.

Peace.

Scott.

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-07-2003
Tue, 08-03-2004 - 2:57pm
I have a few friends that I fantasize about somewhat regularly, but only when I'm alone. I've never thought of anyone else while with my partner.

I think fantasizing about someone other than one's spouse/significant other (friends, co-workers, random strangers) is perfectly normal for both sexes. And harmless as long as one makes sure that their fantasies remain just fantasies. I don't feel ashamed that I've thought of certain friends "that way," but I certainly wouldn't pursue any of those people, or tell my partner who I've been thinking about.

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-13-2004
Tue, 08-03-2004 - 3:04pm
I don't fantasize about other men when I'm with my hubby, no. But then, I'm still a newlywed too. But come to think of it, in the past when I have run into exes or seen some a good looking man, I don't imagine them naked, no. Maybe his buttocks. Mainly, I notice his body, his hair, eyes, smile, skin tone. Definitely not his weiner. lol
iVillage Member
Registered: 08-03-2004
Tue, 08-03-2004 - 3:40pm
I just wanted to reiterate that I am talking about attraction, not pursuing. I agree with everyone when your saying attractions are fine, but what you do with it.... My question wasn't meant to get that far. I was wondering to what extent that women think about guys they know in an innappropriate way.

And, if I could, change the word "naked" in my orignal post to something like "sexually". Meaning, how often to women think of these guys sexually? An example maybe just what Tiana Rose just posted:

"I don't imagine them naked, no. Maybe his buttocks. Mainly, I notice his body, his hair, eyes, smile, skin tone. Definitely not his weiner. lol"

This seems far more in depth than my fleeting naked moments, lol.

It just seems that women in relationships have the ability to block out the other sex far better than we can. Or is it simply that they hide it better than we do?

And, by the way, what is a DH? Husband?

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-22-2004
Tue, 08-03-2004 - 4:28pm
>>It just seems that women in relationships have the ability to block out the other sex far better than we can.<<

Why does it "seem" that way? Is it because of what we've all heard or have been conditioned to believe? LOL! I don't know either, but you're right, it does seem that way according to what we're told... NOT told.

>>Or is it simply that they hide it better than we do?<<

I don't know, are any of them any good at hiding fake orgasms? LOL! Too many different women to tell, so who'll ever know what the real answer is. Those who have multiple partners or those who attend clubs with male strippers or those who even think about cheating would likely answer different from the others who are monogamous, right? Still quite interesting thinking though...

Yes, DH typically stands for dear husband.

C h a r a c t e r


above all else


Mr. Para

 

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iVillage Member
Registered: 01-08-2003
Tue, 08-03-2004 - 5:00pm
I do wonder how other men would be sexually but not while I'm having sex with my husband. When I masturbate, I generally think about a particular sex act but not a specific person. I would be hurt to know my husband was fantasizing about someone else while having sex with me. I don't think there is anything wrong with it, but I don't want to know.

Robin

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