Love & Porn...???

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-04-2005
Love & Porn...???
55
Wed, 05-04-2005 - 4:15pm

Ok everyone, I am asking first of all for all of you to put all of your personal opinions and beliefs aside for a moment and try to speak objectively for a moment.

I am madly in love with a man who is also in love with me. We plan on getting married eventually. Since we were first together we've had a lot of ups and downs but we are each other's best friend and we share everything including a love that for both of us runs very deep (we call it "movie love"). I have felt from the time I met him that I was the luckiest girl in the world but unfortunately one subject has taken away the sweetness of what our love was.

Both this man and I have been married before and we have discussed the problems of our marriages and how we dealt with those problems. One of the habits he developed (which I understood) was the use of porn because he was hardly satisfied sexually. However throughout the time we've been together we have talked about it on a few occasions.

My view - from the getgo I have told him how I did not like it and how it bothered me. I have conservative views on sex and how it is something very special shared between two people. Even while we have been together we have been experimental which I have been open to to show that I am willing to keep our intimate life exciting. I have only been with 2 other people besides him (though I have dated many people), 1 of which was my x. But he has always known (at least I believe) how sacred being intimate is to me and how I feel porn invades that intimacy.

His view - throughout our conversations since we've been together about this subject he told me why he used to use it so often in his marriage and which I have been able to sympathize with but at the same time we usually are intimate at least a couple times a week and sometimes it's just been for him...which I haven't minded doing. He had said a couple times a long time ago that he said he felt it was wrong, and another time he said that if you're really in love with someone and you have a very healthy sex life that there isn't any need for it. He also told he that if he looked at anything it was usually two people together (which kind of made me feel somewhat relieved in a weird way that he wasn't just looking at women). Recently on a few occasions I have found things on his computer (searches that pop up without really having to look) that he says his friend looked up when he was over or that he was downloading to put on a cd for a friend (which I know he was doing). However I recently used his laptop which I don't usually use and I know only he uses and I wasn't even really looking (well maybe a little) but I actually saw some sites that we had looked at like for things we wanted to do together (outdoor activities that is...!) and I thought it was sweet, but then I noticed too that he had a porn site just of women saved on it. I was so heartbroken, angry and sad that I was literally shaking.

Another factor is that even though I was shy about it he had taken pictures of me at one point and said that he wouldn't need to look at other things if he had pictures of me...

When I confronted him about it he said that he possibly even looked at something about a week ago when we had a huge discussion about it about a month ago but yet he told me he didn't realize I felt so strongly about it. I was extremely angry at the fact that throughout our relationship I know I have brought it up to know whether I was enough for him and that he didn't need that. Not only this but obviously every woman knows that her own body (esp mine after 2 children) cannot compete with these women's perfect bodies in sexual poses....I am also totally fuming because I asked him why he even took my pictures if he was going to look at that crap...his excuse was that I seemed to look nervous. He also said that it has been a bad habit and that it's one he hasn't broken completely. I said I couldn't understand when you're intimate with someone so frequently how it is you are so horny that you need to get off all the time?????!!!! Is there no such thing as self control?????

Right now I am a mixture of so many emotions - I'm SO angry because I feel like he knew how I felt about it, extremely sad and brokenhearted because I trusted what he had said about being in love, and because I felt like I put my trust in him when I have said how special it is for me to make love to him. I'm also devastated with my own self consciousness because I feel like I wasn't enough. I even feel very uncomfortable being intimate with him because I think of what these women look like compared to me... :o( All I can think of is him looking at them........The crazy thing is that on a few occasions he has been insecure about me looking or thinking of other guys but how is it that looking at naked women is ok????!!!!

The unspoken ultimatum - now because all of this blew up he has said that he didn't realize how important it was to me (which I don't get at all) but that he is willing to change it and to not do it anymore because he loves me (which I do know). Even when we've been intimate since then I feel very uncomfortable with him (which I hate because I felt so comfortable with him before) and he has admitted that he knows it will take time and that it's his fault I feel uncomfortable. (YES, it is HIS fault!) I also told him that sometimes it bothers me that some people consider cheating being only physical but how is it so different when you can be with any woman you want in your mind? I've personally never felt the way I do about him with anyone, I don't think about anyone else and am not even the slightest bit interested when people hit on me...he tells me that if he looked at women they were women that resembled me (yeah like I'm a frickin supermodel -I know I'm attractive but my body's nowhere near perfect).

Here's the situation, right now I am so confused because I know he loves me and will change it, I believe and trust that he would. However the problem lies in the fact that I thought a lot of this time I THOUGHT I could trust him and now I feel betrayed because I really believed he understood where I stood and when I would ask him I thought I could believe him that he wasn't looking elsewhere. I also don't know how to feel completely comfortable with him again though I want to very much. I'm also feeling as though my self esteem is crushed because I really feel like I wasn't good enough and don't know if I can feel as though I will be good enough (physically).

I love this man very much and am so sad that all of this has happened. I feel very lost because he's my lover and my best friend but I cannot help but feel so distanced from him even though I know how hard he wants to try. How can I erase this? I don't know if I can forget so easily....please tell me what your opinion is of how I feel and what I should do. Thanks

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Avatar for katmandoo2001
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 05-04-2005 - 4:42pm

Boy, this subject pops up a lot, doesn't it?

I think you need to talk with your guy and be brutally honest about your expectations. And then, ask him to do the same. How you handle this conflict can indicate how you'll be able to handle the next, maybe more serious, one. But neither of you are wrong here, you just have differing points of view.

But your reaction to your discovery sounds almost identical to the many, many others we've seen on this board over the years as well. Part of that is assuming that your guy will respond to being in love the same way you do, as a woman. Big mistake.

He CAN be head over hills in love with you and yet, still be attracted to the fantasy of porn and other attractive women. Doesn't mean that he is comparing you physically or looking for some way to replace you at all. It's just fantasy to him...a way of dealing with sexual energy.

Now, in saying that, it does NOT mean that YOUR point of view is not equally as important or real or that it should be ignored for his! This subject needs to be discussed and agreed upon or real trust in your relationship can't be achieved. He can't say one thing and do another.

It's not likely that he will agree with giving up porn completely though. It's probably something he's done from a very young age and has always been part of his sexual life, no matter what he says. Men like to look at naked women. Most realize that what they're looking at is fantasy and it's not related to their real lives at all. But all men enjoy looking. Many choose not to use porn though but they still fantasize.

Talk with your guy, be honest about how this makes you feel and ask him to try to understand your point of view about it. And your responsibility will be to do the same. IF you're both willing to meet in the middle on this, you should find some agreeable compromise.

Good luck!




Edited 5/4/2005 4:58 pm ET ET by katmandoo2001
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-27-2004
Thu, 05-05-2005 - 12:36am

You have lots of things going on here. You looked "just a little"? Hon, that's like saying you're a "little pregnant". YOU LOOKED, and you looked for a reason. Now, you don't like what you found.

Then we have him, speaking with forked tongue. He said he feels porn is wrong, yada yada yada, but yet he's looking at it. Maybe he's only looking at it "a little"?

If you have a moral problem with porn, then his looking at it during his marriage isn't any more excusable than his looking at it now. But, you don't have a moral objection, you have a problem with insecurity. What makes you think that you have to "compete" with these women? What he sees in the porn, and what he sees when he's with you is TWO different things. The porn is "fantasy"......he knows they aren't real. He knows you ARE real. You could look just like them with thousands of dollars of plastic surgery and some airbrushing, and he KNOWS that. Unless he's totally ignoring you sexually in favor of staying up all night looking at porn, and masturbating to it, he's not taking ANYTHING away from you.

Now we have him playing all dumb and innocent. He had no idea you were so against it.......hmmmm, where was he when you discussed it in the past, and you said you didn't like it? This is more a matter of trust than porn. It would be the same thing if he was a gambler, and you asked him not to, but he did it behind your back.

YOu didn't say how long you've been together, but no matter how long it has been, this is why you get to know someone before you make a lifelong commitment. If you can't deal with the porn, and he's not listening to you, then you have a problem. He says he'll quit, but only time will tell, and NOW, you're committed to checking on him, just to be sure. That's no way to live, and that's not a healthy relationship.

I hope he's telling you the truth, but I'm not sure, and I don't think you are either. Good luck, I hope you can work it out.

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-18-2001
Thu, 05-05-2005 - 1:12am

Yes, this subject does rear it's head time and time again.

Kat has put it very well as usual. I don't actually have much more to add, other than to say that this must be one of THE big differences between women and men. Women feel that their man shouldn't need to find sexual stimulation outside of the relationship if they are in a good stable sexually satisfying relationship.

Well, time and time again women are proven wrong about this. Men do enjoy looking at other sexual arousing material. The thing is, is that they are NOT unhappy with their wives and rarely have any intention of doing anything more than looking. They can be totally sexually satisfied, deeply in love and completely happy with their sex lives - it's just that they can also enjoy looking at porn. I guess that it's probably a biological thing.

You do have to talk to him and you have to figure out for yourself what you are prepared to compromise with and not prepared to compromise with. As kat said, there is a very high likelihood that temptation will get the better of him and he will look at some porn again. Unfortunately what he says and promises now and what he eventually does will be two different things. Unfortunately it's not so much an addiction or habit as being something that is, in my opinion, permanently biologically wired in. Yes, he's said that he'll never use it again, but he's not so much lying about it, as trying to honestly trying to control his sexual desires. But he's up against a basic instinct that can't be beaten. If it's available there will ALWAYS be the temptation to view it. Unless you drop him in the middle of a deserted tropical island somewhere there will always be porn of one form or another around. Even then he'd probably resort to using his imagination and even the coconuts will start to look kinda appealing eventually.

Good luck.

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-12-2004
Thu, 05-05-2005 - 10:03am

<<>>

Thank you GTB. After seeing this topic come up numerous times I have been thinking.
As a male, or female for that matter, is looking wrong? And that is ALL it is.
If I look at another woman in porn or walking down the street, my eyes are looking at something attractive/interesting. As my SO would look at a construction worker or Brad Pitt, or porn.
It all boils down to insecurity. The only way to erase it would be for all people in relationships to wear "blinders", or for the insecurity to be overcome.
I don't have the answer to fix the insecurities...
but I know that NO human has the right to expect another human to "not look" at what interests them.
I don't look at porn a lot, but I have my phases. And I can't help but notice an attractive woman walking down the street. I agree with being respectful to my SO and not over indulging. But if she said I could not look at all...I'd be gone.

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-26-2004
Thu, 05-05-2005 - 11:02am

"Unfortunately it's not so much an addiction or habit as being something that is, in my opinion, permanently biologically wired in."

I don't really believe that this is exclusive to males at all. I could have easily have become a porn addict as I find it extremely arousing. My body reacts no differently than any man's does. However, I chose not to view it daily or hourly because I would MOST DEFINITELY NEED relief. It's a stimulant. It's no different than any other drug as I see it and I wouldn't know what my REAL sex drive was if I was using porn constantly. For me too...whenever I viewed porn, those images stayed with me for days and weeks. They would pop in during sex wtih DH and take away from my reality and also replace my natural tendency to masturbate thinking about him(which I feel keeps me connected to him). Since porn is about projection, I think that most of us can relate and easily become aroused, not only men.

Even though I could have indulged constantly, I made the choice not to....because I knew that it was a stimulant which could easily become an addiction. I guess it's the chicken an egg query again. If you're already aroused using fantasy will help get you there, but what if you're not aroused? As a multi-orgasmic woman, I could easily use porn and orgasm probably fifty times in a day(three times a day at 15 orgasms a session) if I wanted to --however I CHOOSE not to. I let nature take it's course instead. ;-)

So I don't think that it's hardwiring at all.




Edited 5/5/2005 2:17 pm ET ET by rain_dancer_iam
Imagination is more important than knowledge." (Albert Einstein )
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-05-2005
Thu, 05-05-2005 - 11:21am

This is a very common subject, which can be taken as either very sad or somewhat comforting to know everyone seems to have the same issue.

I was obviously very naïve, but was shocked to find out that my husband of 7 years looked at porn regularly. I just recently discovered this and took it very personally and felt cheated on. I have since educated myself on the subject. Of course my husband also promised that he would never do it again. After much thought I realized that this was an unrealistic expectation and decided to tell him that I thought it was OK if he felt that was something he needed to do.

My thought behind this was that if I said no porn it would almost be forcing him to lie and then put a wedge between us. My advise would be to make it allowable so he does not have to lie, because I think that is most likely to occur.

My biggest concern is the typical insecurity that everyone seems to mention. As a female it is hard for me to understand how a guy cannot at the bare minimum expect more in your real sex life after your body/mind gets use to unrealistic things. I am working to understand the male mind, which is not easy.

My number one concern at this point is that it still hurts me if I know he has urges and cannot wait a few hours for our benefit. Does that make sense? Of course a couple cannot have sex at every hour of the day, but we almost always have the ability to have sex on a daily basis. I personally find it enjoyable to think about it all day and then be really excited when the opportunity arises. I do not think it would be fair to him if I always relieved myself and then was less interested in him later.

Since I am still learning to accept this reality. I was wondering what other people do to make this more bearable? Do you have any guidelines, and how do you ensure it does not interfere with your sex life directly? What are realistic, livable guideline? Also what are popele’s thoughts about making this a couple only activity? Or is this also unrealistic.

Avatar for katmandoo2001
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 05-05-2005 - 11:32am

I agree Rain and I was going to comment about that part of Westie's post as well. I think BOTH sexes are "hardwired" to notice and be attracted to others besides our mate. I know I certainly am.

BUT it's a choice to take that further and respond to that attraction in an, some might say, inappropriate way within a relationship. And those boundaries have to ironed out between the couple in question. No one, including the man, should go into a relationship with the attitude that "it's just the way I am, accept it or hit the bricks." Or he won't have a partner for very long.

IMO, there is ALWAYS room for accomodation or adjustment, if the love is there and the expectations are realistic and fair.

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-23-2004
Thu, 05-05-2005 - 11:44am

From a point of view from a female that never had a problem with porn when used in moderation it's hard for me to answer these questions but I'll give it a shot.


bounxh0a-1.gif picture by dillbyrd

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-26-2004
Thu, 05-05-2005 - 12:20pm

Not all men NEED porn. I, unlike you, knew that DH looked at porn and so did I(I used to purchase Playgirl and I've read Playboy and Hustler since I was 14). DH stopped buying porn after we were married and so did I. It wasn't agreed upon, we just did it on our own(I didn't find out until three years later that he too had stopped). We occasionally rented movies but that all stopped as I stated in a previous post due to losing faith in the industry. That was about 15 years ago. DH doesn't NEED porn anymore than I do. He's a redblooded male just as the next guy and I'm sure he fantasizes about other women too. He just does it naturally. Whatever women he encounters in his life(or celebrities) is all that he ever sees. ;-)

I guess you have to compromise(if there's such a thing with porn). YOU have to be happy with the arrangement just as much as he does.

Imagination is more important than knowledge." (Albert Einstein )
iVillage Member
Registered: 11-26-2004
Thu, 05-05-2005 - 12:26pm
I personally think that some men have just "used" it so long and since such a young age, that it feels biological. tee hee
Imagination is more important than knowledge." (Albert Einstein )

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