Love & Porn...???

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-04-2005
Love & Porn...???
55
Wed, 05-04-2005 - 4:15pm

Ok everyone, I am asking first of all for all of you to put all of your personal opinions and beliefs aside for a moment and try to speak objectively for a moment.

I am madly in love with a man who is also in love with me. We plan on getting married eventually. Since we were first together we've had a lot of ups and downs but we are each other's best friend and we share everything including a love that for both of us runs very deep (we call it "movie love"). I have felt from the time I met him that I was the luckiest girl in the world but unfortunately one subject has taken away the sweetness of what our love was.

Both this man and I have been married before and we have discussed the problems of our marriages and how we dealt with those problems. One of the habits he developed (which I understood) was the use of porn because he was hardly satisfied sexually. However throughout the time we've been together we have talked about it on a few occasions.

My view - from the getgo I have told him how I did not like it and how it bothered me. I have conservative views on sex and how it is something very special shared between two people. Even while we have been together we have been experimental which I have been open to to show that I am willing to keep our intimate life exciting. I have only been with 2 other people besides him (though I have dated many people), 1 of which was my x. But he has always known (at least I believe) how sacred being intimate is to me and how I feel porn invades that intimacy.

His view - throughout our conversations since we've been together about this subject he told me why he used to use it so often in his marriage and which I have been able to sympathize with but at the same time we usually are intimate at least a couple times a week and sometimes it's just been for him...which I haven't minded doing. He had said a couple times a long time ago that he said he felt it was wrong, and another time he said that if you're really in love with someone and you have a very healthy sex life that there isn't any need for it. He also told he that if he looked at anything it was usually two people together (which kind of made me feel somewhat relieved in a weird way that he wasn't just looking at women). Recently on a few occasions I have found things on his computer (searches that pop up without really having to look) that he says his friend looked up when he was over or that he was downloading to put on a cd for a friend (which I know he was doing). However I recently used his laptop which I don't usually use and I know only he uses and I wasn't even really looking (well maybe a little) but I actually saw some sites that we had looked at like for things we wanted to do together (outdoor activities that is...!) and I thought it was sweet, but then I noticed too that he had a porn site just of women saved on it. I was so heartbroken, angry and sad that I was literally shaking.

Another factor is that even though I was shy about it he had taken pictures of me at one point and said that he wouldn't need to look at other things if he had pictures of me...

When I confronted him about it he said that he possibly even looked at something about a week ago when we had a huge discussion about it about a month ago but yet he told me he didn't realize I felt so strongly about it. I was extremely angry at the fact that throughout our relationship I know I have brought it up to know whether I was enough for him and that he didn't need that. Not only this but obviously every woman knows that her own body (esp mine after 2 children) cannot compete with these women's perfect bodies in sexual poses....I am also totally fuming because I asked him why he even took my pictures if he was going to look at that crap...his excuse was that I seemed to look nervous. He also said that it has been a bad habit and that it's one he hasn't broken completely. I said I couldn't understand when you're intimate with someone so frequently how it is you are so horny that you need to get off all the time?????!!!! Is there no such thing as self control?????

Right now I am a mixture of so many emotions - I'm SO angry because I feel like he knew how I felt about it, extremely sad and brokenhearted because I trusted what he had said about being in love, and because I felt like I put my trust in him when I have said how special it is for me to make love to him. I'm also devastated with my own self consciousness because I feel like I wasn't enough. I even feel very uncomfortable being intimate with him because I think of what these women look like compared to me... :o( All I can think of is him looking at them........The crazy thing is that on a few occasions he has been insecure about me looking or thinking of other guys but how is it that looking at naked women is ok????!!!!

The unspoken ultimatum - now because all of this blew up he has said that he didn't realize how important it was to me (which I don't get at all) but that he is willing to change it and to not do it anymore because he loves me (which I do know). Even when we've been intimate since then I feel very uncomfortable with him (which I hate because I felt so comfortable with him before) and he has admitted that he knows it will take time and that it's his fault I feel uncomfortable. (YES, it is HIS fault!) I also told him that sometimes it bothers me that some people consider cheating being only physical but how is it so different when you can be with any woman you want in your mind? I've personally never felt the way I do about him with anyone, I don't think about anyone else and am not even the slightest bit interested when people hit on me...he tells me that if he looked at women they were women that resembled me (yeah like I'm a frickin supermodel -I know I'm attractive but my body's nowhere near perfect).

Here's the situation, right now I am so confused because I know he loves me and will change it, I believe and trust that he would. However the problem lies in the fact that I thought a lot of this time I THOUGHT I could trust him and now I feel betrayed because I really believed he understood where I stood and when I would ask him I thought I could believe him that he wasn't looking elsewhere. I also don't know how to feel completely comfortable with him again though I want to very much. I'm also feeling as though my self esteem is crushed because I really feel like I wasn't good enough and don't know if I can feel as though I will be good enough (physically).

I love this man very much and am so sad that all of this has happened. I feel very lost because he's my lover and my best friend but I cannot help but feel so distanced from him even though I know how hard he wants to try. How can I erase this? I don't know if I can forget so easily....please tell me what your opinion is of how I feel and what I should do. Thanks

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-12-2004
Fri, 05-06-2005 - 2:58pm
:) aw gee, thanks Tish! *bashfully blushing*
You're the best!!! :)
Avatar for katmandoo2001
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Fri, 05-06-2005 - 4:18pm

I've talked about this with my DH before and men just DON'T get that. They don't understand what it's like to be watched and observed all the time when you're out in public. By someone.

And truthfully, I don't think that a woman even has to be beautiful, in the traditional sense...just a woman. Because beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Avatar for katmandoo2001
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Fri, 05-06-2005 - 4:20pm
Maybe you DO get those looks or comments, Luv, but don't recognize them as such. I know my DH doesn't! I will TELL him when some woman is trying to make eye contact or flirting with him. Most of the time though, he has no idea.
Avatar for katmandoo2001
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Fri, 05-06-2005 - 4:24pm

"Most men?" I disagree. I think men are as individualistic in their view on this subject as women are.

There are all kinds of reasons why a man might not indulge in porn use and I don't think it's a good idea to make assumptions about any individual man.




Edited 5/6/2005 5:16 pm ET ET by katmandoo2001
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-04-2005
Fri, 05-06-2005 - 7:17pm

first of all when I said "look" I didn't mean just to look around at people - I mean look at porn or even to fantasize about women in general....if he doesn't want me to think or look at guys, I should only expect the same from him.

Thank you katmandoo for saying that because you know what...I do believe my man will not do it, actually he's even said he will leave everything on his computer and I can check it all the time if I wanted (both of them).... I can't do that, that's not what trust is...

The thing is is that people say oh it won't cause problems but it has because after we briefly discussed it and HE said it was WRONG, I could tell when his attention wasn't there completely - we are that close and he knows it, so I know if he feels bad for something, he acted and treated me differently but when push came to shove he knows who and what he's got. Like I said, I am not an insecure person, not to sound conceited and I don't even think so but I've been told I look like a very gorgeous person on tv, I never was insecure until we seemed to become distant and of course I became insecure about our relationship, where his thoughts were, how he felt etc., He knows that I would have no problem finding someone else. Part of me wonders if this didn't surface because he was insecure too......????? Because I know what he said and I know what he felt in his heart and that was that it was wrong to do.
Regardless, even though I'm so hurt about it still, I do believe him, I do trust him that much.
But tell me someone...do these images in their head go away or diminish? I even told him how it made me feel sick to my stomach.

And no I won't compromise either. I know men exist that have the same values I do. It's about time we women start setting higher standards because it seems an awful lot of us just either don't care or think that we can't do anything about it and end up very hurt. These women have no self respect and we encourage that it's ok for our men to look at that. I'm tired of it. In fact I have more respect for a man who doesn't look at it, much much more and I told my man this.

No no one's perfect, I never said they were. But there are such a thing as standards and I'm tired of compromising them. This isn't a political issue we disagree on this is the one thing that is the most sacred between us, he says "we melt into one person". Why should something so beautiful have to be shared with some bimbo slut who's completely fake? He's never been PROUD of looking at porn, doesn't that mean there is shame involved?
I BELIEVE THAT MEN ARE CAPABLE OF MORE THAN THEY REALIZE IF WE GIVE THEM THAT EXPECTATION. I think he even has lost a little of his own self respect because of it because he knows what he said to me.

Thanks all for your opinions. I believe him, he has shed tears for me (at the thought of losing me before) and when I look in his eyes I can see his sincerity. Honestly what we have is something most people only dream of and we've both said so, so he says to trust him and I will trust him.

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-26-2004
Fri, 05-06-2005 - 7:34pm

**First and foremost, porn has nothing to do with your relationship, his attraction to you or his commitment to you.**

That's the crux of the issue. You(and all the men on this board) can say that over and over again, but these women DON'T and CAN'T see it that way. To them, they think it has EVERYTHING to do with his attraction and commitment to them. To some, it's even considered cheating. It's similar to penis size--no matter how much you tell them that size doesn't matter...they just won't believe it.

Imagination is more important than knowledge." (Albert Einstein )
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-21-2004
Fri, 05-06-2005 - 10:55pm

**First and foremost, porn has nothing to do with your relationship, his attraction to you or his commitment to you.**


That's the crux of the issue. You(and all the men on this board) can say that over and over again, but these women DON'T and CAN'T see it that way.


Note that it isn't just men on this board who say this. Its women on this board, men and women on other boards, columnists, counselors, and even some clergy. Its also the men (and women) who enjoy porn who are describing why they do what they do.


To them, they think it has EVERYTHING to do with his attraction and commitment to them.


That says more about them than it does about their SOs or spouses. I could say that when my wife looks at house magazines or watches decorating shows that she's doing it because she doesn't appreciate the house and home I provide for her. But would that explanation have more to do with my insecurities or the simple fact that she really enjoys house magazines and decorating shows?


To some, it's even considered cheating. It's similar to penis size--no matter how much you tell them that size doesn't matter...they just won't believe it.


So would you advise a man worried about penis size that he should feed his insecurities or would you explain to him that if his dw/so says she's happy that she probably is?


--


martinisnsushi - the two most important food groups!

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-26-2004
Sat, 05-07-2005 - 12:36am

Of course not.

I'm not disagreeing with you, only bringing the most important issue out.




Edited 5/7/2005 12:37 am ET ET by rain_dancer_iam
Imagination is more important than knowledge." (Albert Einstein )
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-21-2004
Sat, 05-07-2005 - 10:15am

I think the *most* important thing is that the couple recognize that what brought them together is more important than some private hobby one or the other has. They both deserve and need privacy, and both need to learn to compromise and make allowances for their differences.


I also think its unreasonable for either party in a couple to think that their partner will never, ever look at another person of the opposite sex. Even as I type this, a couple I know is getting a separation because the husband is so completely jealous of his wife that he throws a fit every time she has a business meeting, conference, or works in any way with another man.


The straw that broke the camel's back was when he threw a fit because she was one of 5 women who dragged their supervisor out on the dance floor for a dance

--


martinisnsushi - the two most important food groups!

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-26-2004
Sat, 05-07-2005 - 10:44am
Well...I think that the difference is that porn's purpose is to incite arousal and most probably to the point of masturbation. I think that many women feel that "porn" is in fact the "other woman(women)." It may not seem rational to you or I, but it's perfectly logical to them. And I think depending on the man and woman, many women tolerate "the other woman." Some are OK as long as she only steps in occasionally.


Edited 5/7/2005 10:52 am ET ET by rain_dancer_iam
Imagination is more important than knowledge." (Albert Einstein )