men: theory please
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| Tue, 11-30-2004 - 11:00am |
Theory; men please
Of course open to the ladies too.
Past would dictate, guy meets girl, girl is optimistically cautious and guy pushes, romances her with flowers, calls her, nice dinners...gets her to commit, aww, she gives in, he doesn’t do this with everyone right? Wrong, ha! They do the deed in 3 weeks, one or two weeks later guy decides this isn’t what he’s looking for. Why is this a stereotype of what men do in relationships? Sure, he thinks he knows you but he doesn’t...he’s infatuated like a new toy. My question is, what is the point? I find it hard to believe he’s doing all this work for one thing and one thing only.....go hire someone if that is the case, LOL....
Thought this would make a good post! I get burned every time. (This was posted on another board but I thought you guys here would have interesting opinions!)

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So, Yankees or Mets? ;D
>>Sometimes it makes me wonder "If the sex were better would they stay longer?"<<
I tend to believe that it really does take a soulmate to cure this situation you keep getting into. You're trying very hard to catch a commitment man, but that doesn't mean you'll catch the right one for you, or that you're automatically the right one for him you're both committed. Make sense?
You're looking for someone that is compatible AND committed, but thats not always going to work either, as you're obviously finding out. Its not always the sex as so many fear it is, many times its just simply the lack of magic or belief in the relationship. Just because you get along or just because you're compatible and committed, doesn't necessarily mean "this will work! this will work!"
In my personal case, fate hit me in the nose when I wasn't looking for anyone at all. Are we all that lucky? Of course not. I just don't have the faith that many do in the right match for my future, partially because it lures me too much into trying to "force" the relationship to work, even if it means manipulating it or the other person to fit what I need and what I think the relationship needs. Yes, a little is required to make relationship work, but since we know that not all relationships will bend our way, there you have it, maybe thats why people ditch each other after a while, not necessarily the sex.
Too many men in your area for you to worry though, in my opinion. ;)
C h a r a c t e r
above all else
Mr. Para
C H A R A C T E R
>>>>Thanks for all your advice! I'm in my 40's and dating men in their 40's (and 50's), and I still find men that are not mature or over their hormones and egos! I've decided that in dating I'm going to wait about 3 months before having sex just so I don't end up with a guy who's in it for sex only. I think that amount of time will weed out men who just want sex or who are likely to get sex and disappear. It's rough out there in the dating world!<<<<
Oh, I have been there! I truly understand. :) Many people here had lots of good points. Still, I think an important one hasn't been mentioned yet.
Many men in our culture have major *fear of intimacy* issues. Staying around for very long means they'll eventually be "exposed", be really "known" by somebody. Staying around means getting closer...it means being in a R-r-r-relationship. Some men just cannot get that close. Some of them get antsy and *very* uncomfortable just spending the night with you and waking up together the next morning. Spend a whole weekend together? Not them. Meet your parents? Not in this decade. Many of them don't even consciously acknowledge this about themselves. Many of them say (and really believe) that they do want to settle down and find the right woman! They just find reasons very quickly that you are not her. But don't take that personally, because they find reasons to run from every woman...even before they get a chance to really know her and find out who she is. They're also the guys that aren't in touch with their real feelings. They might say they feel "bored", when in reality they're scared, feeling very uncomfortable, getting an itch to bolt, and not trying to figure out why, or what they are so uncomfortable and terrified of.
Everybody's been hurt. Men who are still single in their 40's-50's aren't kids. They've probably been divorced or at least in some longterm relationships that didn't work out for whatever reason. Some people have no capacity to heal from the past and *truly* move forward in life with a positive attitude and being really open to the possibilities ahead of them. If men like this at least stay in the "game" of dating, *just* up to the point where they almost get close to somebody before they move to the next, they can blame it on all the women that are just not for them, and can continue to hide from their fears and avoid growing as a person.
By the way, there are women out there just like this too, in the dating/dumping cycle. I like what iv_aisha said. She's not only looking for all the ways they might be compatible and "fit", she's looking just as much, or more, for ways they differ. Being very straightforward and open with men, no coyness at all for the big answers, would make the scaredy-cats run away even sooner (good riddance), but would intrigue the men who are fascinated with openness, and not afraid of intimacy.
" My question is, what is the point? I find it hard to believe he’s doing all this work for one thing and one thing only.....go hire someone if that is the case, LOL...."
Indeed, what is the point? Why in the world would a woman fall for this sort of deal in only 3 weeks time or some similar short period of time? There are men all over who look for just this sort of thing and there are nearly as many women out there who fall for it every day. Nothing new under the sun, you gotta change how you're picking them if you want to change the pattern. I have not read the other replies, but I would hope others have said something similar. In addition, consider changing WHERE you're picking them as well. I'm a man but I gotta say, I don't know any men like this. Oh, when I was fresh out of High School I knew a few, but since I didn't run with that crowd that changed rather rapidly and now I can't think of any man I know who is like that. I know they exist because my wife is entrenched in the rumor mill and relates the sordid details to me all too often, but honestly I have to say that my point-of-view is skewed towards this being the exception rather than the rule. Change your perspective (i.e. your stomping grounds) and it may just change your perception or stay the same and let it ride.
Those fear of intimacy types? The ones that are afraid of relationships? That's why I like my technique so much - it allows me to pick them very quickly and move on. Also, I never play games. If I'm interested, I'll call you. If I'm not interested, I'll tell you and move on. I don't believe in waiting a certain amount of time between calls or in playing hard to get. If a guy plays games with me - he's dumped.
On another thread, I got criticised for my belief that it's OK to dump a man who doesn't meet your sexual needs....however, I've dumped men for even more insignificant issues too. I once dumped a guy over his *expectation* that I would provide all the salads at his BBQ (we'd only been together for 3 weeks)!
My belief it that if a dating relationship is hard work...if it needs lots of discussion or you have lots of ups and downs - then it's a waste of time. The only relationship that's worth persuing to permanancy is the one with Mr Perfect.
And I've found my wonderful Mr Perfect.
Once you have sex, it changes things. If the sex is really good it REALLY changes things, because the relationship becomes about the sex and you never REALLY get to know each other. Are there relationships that start out with sex and the relationship survives?..Absolutly there is, however, there are zillions more of failed attempts at relationships that started out with sex early, because you are basically having sex with a stranger. You really dont know much about them. Once the sex wears off a bit, you start to notice little annoying things about her/him that cool off the relationship quickly.
But the damage is done ..you had sex, it may or may not been great, and for what ever the reason it didnt work out....keep doing what you are doing , dont expect different results.
>>There are still men in this country who want some types women for sex, and other types for relationships.<<
Thank heavens I've never met this type of man.
>>"wow shes that easy with me , how many others has she been "easly with". <<
Those words belong to a very uptight, insecure type of man who is happy with double standards. Again, not the sort that I'd date. If he thinks it's OK for him to have early sex, but not me - then he's a total looser. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
In my experience, the far majority of men that I've slept with early have wanted a relationship with me. Hey, perhaps Aussie guys are far less complicated than American ones LOL. Nygal, why don't you move "down under"?
Seriously though, I'm sure we're talking a minority of American men.
iv Sure those men want a relationship with you, a sexual relationship to begin with.
>>iv you are right it is a double standard, but it is what it is.<<
No, that's not how dating a good man is. Only chauvanist pigs have that type of attitude and they are thankfully rare in the circles in which I travel. As I mentioned in an earlier post - I've yet to meet a man like that. A good man does not have such double standards. Do you really think that the average confident women would sell herself so short as to date such a man?
>>Getting to know a person first works the best,stats prove it.<<
What stats are you quoting? The stats in my and my DH's life are quite the opposite. All the long term relationships that my DH has had have involved first or second date sex. Any of his that have gone for a month or two without sex have ended up being total wastes of time - it turned out that the women were only interested in free meals and drinks - but nothing more.
What I really don't think you understand is that men who have double standards are not the men that confident women want. Even if I didn't sleep with him, the fact that he would judge *other* women with those same double standards still makes him totally unacceptable as relationship material.
Look at it this way: if I got really unlucky and stumbled across such a man of double standards, if I slept with him early - then I'd have him out of my life quickly. However, if I held off, it may be 6 or 12 months before I discover that he's a chauvanist pig and that would be a wasted 6 or 12 months of my time. When dating, my time was too precious to stuff around waiting to find out what a man's truly made of.
>>Sure those men want a relationship with you, a sexual relationship to begin with<<
And what's so bad about that? When DH and I met, the only things we had in common was a love of exotic food and unbelievable chemistry together. So we got to know each other while having loads of great food and mind-blowing sex. And the more we got to know each other, the more we realised that there was much more to our relationship than great sex.
first off, I do not believe in the double standard..whats good for the goose....
Believe it or not iv there are still people in this world who still have values and ethics which may differ from yours. Some people believe that sex should be reserved for that someone special, not treated as a handshake with an orgasm. Im not saying casul sex is wrong, but its not for some people.
>>Do you really think that the average confident women would sell herself so short as to date such a man? >>..some men are good actors, yes Ive know good women who have dated loosers like that several times, and it took them a while to figure him out.Then they feel depressed becaused she realizes she was just used for sex ..(again)
>>What stats are you quoting? << those stats are well documented, nothing is ever 100% one way or the other.
>>All the long term relationships that my DH has had have involved first or second date sex.>> Gee how many did he have that didnt work out that started with early sex?
>> However, if I held off, it may be 6 or 12 months before I discover that he's a chauvanist pig and that would be a wasted 6 or 12 months of my time.<<< If you were as astute as you claim it wouldnt take you but a couple dates to figure him out.
>>Any of his that have gone for a month or two without sex have ended up being total wastes of time - it turned out that the women were only interested in free meals and drinks - but nothing more.>> Talk about generalizations..maybe they just wanted a man in a committed relationship before they were gonna have sex..
What you dont understand is that not everyone is as "enlightened as you"..They still run their life based on a value system that is different than yours.
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