Possible Abuse? To Tina Rose -

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Registered: 06-04-2003
Possible Abuse? To Tina Rose -
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Sun, 05-09-2004 - 9:46am
I wanted to start a new thread regarding Tia Rose's question "POssible Abuse" - Here is my different perspective -

I think I disagree with most of the women here, at least in part. It is absolutely true that men abuse women by manipulating, making them do things they don't want to do, being "disappointed", but I just don't think this is the case here, at least entirely.

This married couple of consensual age has engaged in consensual sex, much of it kinky. He picked out her clothes and SHE LIKED IT. Not only did she like it, but she communicated that SHE LIKED IT. He asks her to dress sexy for his colleagues and she does and SHE LIKES IT and she communicated to him that SHE LIKES IT. They play other consensual sexual kinky games and at all times SHE COMMUNICATES THAT SHE LIKES IT. He grabs her breasts before and again, she COMMUNICATES THAT SHE LIKES IT. NEver before posting here does she indicate to him that she is anything less than thrilled with the way he is treating her. Is he supposed to read her mind? Is he supposed to know when grabbing her breasts a little hard is no longer consensual, when it always has been in the past?

Then, all of the sudden, she sits him down and tell him that she feels ABUSED? He is understandably shocked. Even in that conversation, he asks if it is because he wants her to greet him topless and she says NO, that is mainly fine with her. So the difference between what is consensual kinky play and ABUSE is not the activity or the act, but what is going on in her mind and her mood? That's perfectly fine, but she has to COMMUNICATE that clearly. I bet if we asked she would say that they had engaged in dominance/submission play. I would further guess that in the course of that safe, consensual play she has said "No.., please don't ask me to dress slutty like that - I'm a good girl" or something else to that effect, when it was still completely consensual play.

So what's my point? My point is that our heroine needs to take responsibility for her actions and her sexual activity. She needs to have a code word when she is not comfortable. That code word doesn't mean "maybe I'm not comfortable" or "possibly" or anything else. She needs to be clear - If I say "peanut butter" (for example), this stops. He needs to understand this. I am sure he will and we be releived not to be called an abuser.

For the record, I am a woman who is sexually healthy and have been in an amazing, sometimes kinky, marriage for over 7 years. I think women have to communicate what they mean CLEARLY. We often do not.

Good luck and Enjoy...

M

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Registered: 10-09-2003
Sun, 05-09-2004 - 11:34am
TIANA: "Hi. I don't know if this is the right board to ask this question, but thought I'd give it a try. If there is a better board, please let me know. My question is - I feel like I may be being a bit abused, but not sure. This is a little embarrasing, but my husband (when we don't have the kids with us) wants and expects me to cook dinner topless, serve dinner topless and eat dinner topless at the table. In the beginning, I took this as just another one of his little kinky ways and I eagerly joined in. But sometimes I don't want to do this and he is becoming quite demanding about it. I know this is so weird, but I just wanted to here if anyone else has something like this they live with. Am I being silly about this? Should I just do it because obviously he enjoys it and what the heck. I don't hate it. I'm just starting to feel a little abused by it. Any comments would be helpful."

She comes on a board and STATES that SHE'S feeling a little abused.

She also states that "HE wants and EXPECTS me to cook dinner topless." She also states that "sometimes I DON'T WANT TO DO THI and he is becoming QUITE DEMANDING about it."



TIANA: "I told him no the other night. I just wasn't in the mood and he kept telling me how he really loves it and he loves to watch me cook topless and that we only get a couple evenings out of the week where we can really cut loose in the house. I felt bad and agreed so I took my top off. But I really didn't want to.

SHE TOLD HIM how she felt and STILL his needs were more important. She complied even though she didn't want to.

TIANA: "That was one thing, but later in the evening, we made love and he was pretty rough. As we were making love, he told me he didn't want me to say No about it again, especially when we don't have the kids. He even added that he wanted me to greet him at the door topless when we don't have the kids. It seems like he might start demanding more and more."

"It was when he grabbed both breasts so tightly like that and shook them a little while telling me he didn't want to hear "No" again from ---- (he has a name for them)."

Sounds intimidating to me, particular considering the CONTENT of his demand and the physical force). Of course, it could have been said in the heat of the moment(more fantasy), but I wasn't there, so I'd lean more on the caution side.

"Most times, I love it and look forward to his little surprises, but every once in awhile, you know, we all have our days, I guess."

She's seems to feel intimidated to say "NO" and from what she said above, it seems the norm. She used the word (expects and demanded)which backs this up for me.

TIANA: "Once a month, I must do something out of the norm just for him. One time, he had me open all the curtains and drapes, blinds to the house and walk around in the nude all day. No matter who could look up and see in, I had to just walk around like normal. We made love in his big chair which sits right by a huge sliding glass door. Naturally he chose a weekend day where there are beachgoers. Not very nice, although I don't think anyone really saw us, it was more the thrill of possibly being seen. (we live on the beach). He started a bar-be-que up out on the deck around dusk and insisted I come out and help him set the table. That was the only time I was really seen.

Notice the choice of words she chooses "...HAD to just walk around..." "....INSISTED I come out..."

She also stated that it was "Not very nice...." that there were people on the beach. Which again, gives me the inkling that she's doing things she doesn't enjoy, just to please him.

She asked for opinions, and I gave my conclusion based upon what she stated in her several posts. I feel that SHE came here because she feels something is amiss. There's nothing wrong with kinky sex(which I dont' feel that any of this is, btw), but BOTH parties have to consent. In her first post she very clearly made it sound as though he disregards her, despite her protests.

I'm surprised that he was SHOCKED, when she approached him last night. In her first post, she clearly indicated that she TOLD him that she didn't want to do it(at that time). Additionally, giving consent ONE time, doesn't automatically translate to consent all of the time. Which is why a husband can be held accountable to rape if he assumes that. Every single sexual act should be consented to. It just sounds as though she is not GIVEN that freedom, which is why she is here. If he sulks, manipulates, or threatens her, those are all very subtle control tactics. It's important that we recognize it. I just don't buy that he wasn't fully aware of what he was doing...and that's my opinion.

The dictionary's definition of abuse:

abuse:

To use wrongly or improperly; misuse: abuse alcohol; abuse a privilege.

To hurt or injure by maltreatment; ill-use.

To force sexual activity on; rape or molest.

To assail with contemptuous, coarse, or insulting words; revile.

Obsolete. To deceive or trick.



Avatar for imblushing
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Registered: 03-26-2003
Sun, 05-09-2004 - 11:54am

Sorry hon, but I interpret nearly everything that you said as accepting or


Sharon

A friend is the person who kn

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Registered: 03-26-2003
Sun, 05-09-2004 - 2:03pm
I agree with the others....you are way off base on this one. Her problem was NOT that she was upset by the things he's asking her to do, and yes, she said at times she enjoyed doing it. Her problem was that the man DEMANDS that she do these things, even if she isn't "in the mood", or doesn't feel like it. And, when she told him she didn't want to, THAT is when he grabbed her breasts and squeezed so hard she was in pain, and at the same time, told her that he NEVER wanted to hear her say NO again!

OH, and he was in "shock" when she talked to him about it, SURE he was! He was in shock that she dared to "defy" him! She, the OP, and you probably think the problem is solved.....and it's not. What he did is no different than any abusive man, when he was "called" on it, he apologized profusely, and said it will never happen again. It won't happen for a while, for sure. Just as the wife beater tells his wife how much he loves her, and he will never beat her again. UNTIL THE NEXT TIME!

She actually came back and said the problem was solved. I'm not going to burst her bubble & tell her it's not solved! She'll have to find that out on her own, and she'll have to deal with it when it happens. She's in denial, and she's still blaming herself. He's got her very nicely brainwashed.

So, you and your husband enjoy your kinky sex....that's great. But, I'm sure there are times when one or the other of you just isn't in the mood. When that happens, does the other one throw a hissy fit? Does the "rejected" partner inflict pain along with a demand that he/she never be rejected again? I doubt that very much.

One last thing.....You mentioned "safe" words. I think that's advisable when two consenting adults practice S&M, or Domination. In this case, the only "safe" word this woman should need is NO!!!

I hope your area of law isn't Domestic Violence!

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-25-2004
Sun, 05-09-2004 - 2:26pm
While i have to say I don't completely agree with the original post of this thread I must say one thing. You said...

<<>>

But they DO practice domination. Just not EXPLICITLY sexual domination, he enjoys playing more subtle domination games with her, and most of the time she enjoys it also. They do need a safe word, for the evenings that she doesn't feel like playing the game, because it sounds like often when she does want to play she still says "no" because thats part of the domination game. So I would say a safe word would be helpful in this situation, IF she is going to remain in the situation, that is. I think, giving men the benefit of the doubt as I usually do, that that is something she should try. Set up a safe word and see if he respects that boundary, if he does than it was just part of the game. If he doesn't then he's abusive.

Angel

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Registered: 10-09-2003
Sun, 05-09-2004 - 2:27pm
"no"

Used to express refusal, denial, disbelief, emphasis, or disagreement: No, I'm not going. No, you're wrong.

Not at all; not by any degree. Often used with the comparative: no better; no more.

Not: whether or no.



iVillage Member
Registered: 10-09-2003
Sun, 05-09-2004 - 2:47pm
Since he's the controller/dominator, I just can't for the life of me wonder WHY he didn't give her an out...or question her in the least? He didn't ask her if she really meant it, instead he pressed on. If he were truly interested in her best interests, he would have pressed her for "her true feelings." I think you were correct that this isn't explicit to sexual dominatin, it probably permeates throughout their relationship.
Avatar for katmandoo2001
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Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 05-10-2004 - 2:08am
Hmmm. I think you need to speak for yourself, only, on this one. I have ALWAYS been very open with my DH about what is and isn't okay in the bedroom and he with me.

And I know what MY responses communicated to Tia, as well as most of the other's, and the gist WAS to tell her DH what she felt about his latest "requests" or demands.

No, he's not a mind reader BUT I think most men can see when previously accepted "play" isn't being reciprocated or accepted anymore. I'm sure he could see that his rough sexual play with her breasts was NOT enjoyable to her!

I think most of the responses were right on the mark.

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-15-2003
Mon, 05-10-2004 - 9:59am
M,

I think on a level you are VERY right on this subject. I also think that we are only seeing one half of this story. We are seeing the situation only for the perspective of Tiana, and not from her husband. It's easy to make a "monster" of someone who we've never met or spoken to. There are an awful lot of opinions here (including my own) that are being formed with far too little information. I suspect that much of this problem is a communication problem (again my opinion from a limited perspective), and that he very well may have had no idea that Tiana's fear was "real". The only way to know for sure is for Tiana to see what happens in the future now that she has had the "talk". And though I would never treat a woman like Tiana's husband treats her, she has said that she often (usually might even have been the term) enjoys it. Ultimately, she needs to decide what abuse is and is not. There are an awful lot of sexual practices that I don't understand (and this is one of them), however, there are a lot of perfectly healthy couples that do all sorts of things that I would never do: Swapping, threesomes, hard B and D, etc. etc. However, if it works for them, that is fine.

In my opinion, Tiana herself has problems with boundries...she doesn't have any idea how to enforce them and to set them. Her husband has the perfect right to ask for whatever he wants, but she needs to have the strength to have a "coming to God" talk and set those boundries...maybe she has done that, and maybe it will work. Hopefully it will and everyone will live happily ever after.

Avatar for katmandoo2001
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Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 05-10-2004 - 11:07am
I think some people DO enjoy being submissive or dominated in order to be sexually responsive, and it seems that Tiana does. HOWEVER, if her husband is putting her in situations that are illegal, as in the public indecency situation on the beach or in danger, exposing her naked body to strangers and inviting opinion, etc., then he's clearly being abusive, and taking advantage of her submissive nature, IMO.

SHE said herself that she felt abused and so she needs to speak up EVERY time she feels her husband crosses the line. IF she doesn't, then he possibly could take it to the next level of aggression. The pattern is already clearly evident to everyone but Tiana.


Edited 5/10/2004 11:09 am ET ET by katmandoo2001

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Registered: 10-09-2003
Mon, 05-10-2004 - 11:19am
Sure, Scott, he's got the God given right to ask for whatever he wants, but sometimes people take advantage, in the name of LOVE. I think it imperative that we point out all possible angles...one of which is the worst. Sorry that it may seem negative, but unfortunately, there's a GREAT CHANCE that this is abuse. Most men/women and children who are abused, aren't even aware of it. It's time they opened their eyes.

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