Shyness, low libido or what?
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| Wed, 03-07-2007 - 9:32am |
I have been dating a very nice guy for about three months now. In all this time this guy has not gone beyond a good night kiss. We will also hold hands a little, like when crossing a busy street, or walking into a crowded place, or watching a scary film. That's all. This relationship is not moving fast enough for me.
We are both on the far side of middle-age (almost fifty/over fifty). We've both been divorced for a few years. We get along well we like many of the same things. We have fun. He has not asked me to stop dating other men, but he acts as though we are in a relationship. Except that he hardly touches me.
I am super frustrated. Is this a shyness problem, a libido problem or do you think he just doesn't find *me* attractive enough and just dates me because we have mutual friends and he doesn't have anything better to do? What can I do to find out?
Mame

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I have been out with many men (mostly before my marriage, but a few since then). Usually, I have had no trouble at all figuring out that they wanted sex eventually if not right away. Also if I was interested in a man when I was younger I never had trouble letting him know that we would have sex as soon as some trust developed between us. As for talking about sex, I can do it, but only when I get vibes from the man that it is okay.
I am not getting "sex is okay" vibes from this guy. That's why I posted here originally instead of in one of the dating sites. Something is odd about his behavior. It tends to inhibit me, like he will be turned off, instead of turned on, if I am too "forward."
Let me point out that except that he did give me a peck on the lips after our first real date, ALL of the first moves (however weak they may seem to everyone else here) have come from me. Even the first good night peck on the lips may have been suggested by my stepping one step closer to him and looking up as I said good night. I was the one who started grabbing his hand, touching his forearm, putting my hand on his knee, holding him a little longer when we kiss good night, moving my lips and leaning into the kiss to make it last. He responds/accepts the caress briefly, but he doesn't initiate anything or make any effort to prolong what I do initiate.
The most logical explanation is that he is not interested in sex. He may be afraid of failure, he may have moral objections (though he hasn't hinted at any) or he may have a neurotic fear that I will reject his advances. (And I say it is neurotic because when a woman grabs your hand, touches your forearm in conversation, puts her hand on your knee, moves her lips and pushes close to you while you're kissing, etc, then you ought to take the hint that she will welcome a French kiss, or a hand on *her* thigh, or some other advance toward intimacy.)
Rice71, I have no idea how many women who you showed no sexual interest in would have welcomed some signs of interest. It's a good question, isn't it?
As I said in my other message, I think sex is the responsibility of both the man and the woman. He has not shown any interest in sex. I think I have shown interest in sex. At least, I have shown interest in more kissing, touching, etc.
This is his problem as much as mine, so I don't think I need to feel guilty if, in response to his lack of interest, I move on. If he thinks I am not interested, he is free to move on also.
I will try to find out what is going on (that's why I posted here, to see if I got some insights), and I may discuss the problem with him indirectly. However, I want to do this in a way that I am comfortable with.
Bringing up the problem directly is something I am not comfortable with for a lot of different reasons. If he brings it up, then I will discuss it.
I guess what will happen is either one of us will move on, or we will come to an understanding. I just don't see that pushing for that understanding is mainly my responsibility. He has to make some moves. His passivity is the real problem, and me becoming more aggressive is not going to fix that.
Rice wrote: <<>>
Issytish replied: <>
I have never heard of this "rule" either.
I *always* tell guys that when the time is right I am willing to have a full sexual relationship. What I don't and won't do is tell a guy who has not shown sexual interest that I would like to be more sexual with him.
That may be my mistake. On the other hand, if what I want is a man who is not a complete wimp, maybe my way works better than if I always took the initiative when the guy fails to.
Edited 3/9/2007 11:01 am ET by oldmame
Well, that was a lot of new information. See, that wasn't so difficult was it? ;-)
You did say something that puzzled me. You said "you ought to take the hint that she will welcome a French kiss". Does that mean that you think that it's the man's job to introduce tongue into the kissing? I find that surprising, since, although I've never had a woman initiate a kiss, I have had several who brought tongue into the mix first, and I never thought that meant that they would have sex with me. Then or ever. So, the next time you kiss, why don't you give him a little tongue and press your body against his. If that doesn't elicit the response that you're looking for, then I might start to agree with you that this guy isn't into you, or at least isn't into getting physical. Even at my age, and after all this time, if an attractive woman kissed me passionately and stuck her tongue in my mouth, I think I might have a difficult time keeping my hands to myself.
Also, for the record, I've never had a woman let me know that she was eventually going to let me have sex with her. Every first time was a complete surprise to me. That's why I think that I may have given up on some too soon. Probably not, but it is possible.
>>You said "you ought to take the hint that she will welcome a French kiss". Does that mean that you think that it's the man's job to introduce tongue into the kissing?<<
No. He just hasn't given me a chance to introduce my tongue into the kiss. The way it goes is: we are saying goodnight, we step forward, hug slightly then he pulls back a little (he needs to do this because I am shorter than him) and bends over to kiss me. Lips meet, press together, I move my lips, he moves his slightly and pulls away. It's a slow pulling away, not like he wants to end the kiss quickly but more like he's done, he thinks the gesture is complete.
As far as pressing my body to him goes, I've already done that, during the pre-kiss hug. Doesn't seem to have an effect. I feel I am getting mixed signals from him.
Yesterday night, for instance, after our kiss, he hugged me a second time, very tightly, but in a way that made it hard for me to move my arms and hug him back. Sort of clumsy, like a boy, really. He said, "Oh you're so sweet and soft," but he released me quickly and was half-way out the door before I could say a word, talking about how he needed to get home and get some rest because he had to get up early today. It felt like he was afraid I would respond to his hug by asking for more. But why hug me at all if that's how he felt?
I'm real rusty about all this sex stuff. Since my ex and I ended things, I haven't had a lover, just a few dates. So my last sex experience with someone other than my ex was almost 20 years ago. Back then I was dating 20 and 30 somethings. Now my dates are 40 to 60 years old. I know there are libido differences from before. It just seems a bit much with this guy.
I really can't tell if this guy is just shy/afraid of rejection or if he is trying to keep the sexual element out of the relationship because he thinks it's too soon or just not interested. (Either because he doesn't find ME attractive or because he just has no sexual desire in general.)
Honestly, I'm about to give up.
"Honestly, I'm about to give up."
I think that you should. I think that both of you would be better off if you were each dating someone who was more sexually confident and aggressive. That's not meant as a knock at either of you, but neither one of you seems to want to take the lead, so the whole thing is drifting along going nowhere. I'm betting that he's just as frustrated as you are, but if he isn't, that's even more reason for both of you to move on.
<< why continue to speculate when you can have the answer by simply asking him?>>
Because I don't believe I will necessarily get an honest answer if I ask, but I may be in an uncomfortable situation if I ask. The risk is not worth it for me.
If he has a problem he doesn't want to discuss, he may lie and maybe even try to make it look like it's my problem. (That was how my ex dealt with things.)
If he isn't attracted to me, and he is still going through the motions of kissing and so forth, he isn't likely to admit it. He will think he needs to be polite just as he is kissing me to be polite.
If he thinks sex should wait until we are ready to make a commitment, and he thinks I am trying to push him, he may decide I am not a "good woman" and then even if he decides to get sexual, it will be with the idea that I am no longer the woman for a long term commitment.
And so on.
Lots of negative scenarios are as possible as the positive one you envision of mutual understanding and enlightenment.
I won't "speculate" about this further in this forum. But I think my reasons not to ask him straight out what is going on are just as valid as the reasons to ask him. And I am going to go with what feels comfortable for me.
He is not the only fish in the sea. I will give it another week or so of my trying to get him to see that I am interested. I may bring up the subject indirectly, I may ask for a second kiss and see what happens, etc. If he doesn't move towards a less platonic relationship soon, then I will move to a more platonic relationship. That should be easy to do--I just don't touch him, and I pull away from the kiss before he does, and if he doesn't take the hint I tell him straight out that I think he and I don't have enough passion to make a relationship but I'd like to be friends.
Rice is right that if I don't want to take the active role and he doesn't want to take the active role, than we aren't going to go anywhere. And I really don't want to take the active role. End of story.
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