Sometimes it's not up to you, lady
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| Sun, 01-16-2005 - 10:35am |
Once in a while I peruse the postings here, especially when I'm feeling particularly low about a problem my bf and I are having, and I've noticed a pattern.
It seems that whenever a problem arises which involves a woman being dissatisfied with some aspect of a relationship, the answer always involves her doing something different. "Talk to him." Okay, that's great advice, and should be a no-brainer. That's not the kind of thing I mean.
When a man is spending too much time doing everything BUT being with his woman, everyone says, "Schedule some time with him." When she is dissatisfied with the amount of sex, she receives tons of advice on how to get him interested. Whenever she wants to know why he doesn't find her attractive anymore, she is told to get mental health help or to work on her appearance.
Well and good...these things might change the short-term situation. But why, in all of these posts, do I almost never see mention of the one thing that matters? It seems, barring male-female differences in relating, that the real answer is, "Honey, he's just not that into you."
I saw it on Oprah when I caught the last five minutes of a show I wish I'd Tivo'd...and I thought...finally, a real answer. The fact is, gentlemen, that for a woman to feel desired, there must be some UNDIRECTED effort on your part. As a woman I can honestly say that the only times I have ever felt desired were when I didn't have to write the script. It seems that if a man is hungry, he will seek food. If he's cold, he'll work to find some heat. And if he REALLY wants sex, even from a long-term mate, he will at least once in a while make a concerted effort in that direction.
My own situation colors my opinion, I'm sure. I'm in love with a man who isn't crazy about sex in general, and certainly can "take it or leave it" if it's with me. I do NOT feel desired, and it's because no matter what he says, it's what he DOES (and doesn't do) that matters. He tells me he wants sex, then goes to lie down on his couch while I take a bath...knowing he'll go to sleep (and he is difficult to wake). He knows I need foreplay, we've discussed it many times, yet he can't bring himself to do it. We have sex maybe 8 times a year, almost exclusively by my initiation. These and many other things have convinced me that no matter how much he loves me (like a best friend), he is just not that into me.
Vent accomplished,
Red

If he is not that into you and you are unhappy with the situation after trying to fix it, talking to him, telling him what you want and what your needs are and he still does nothing to improve your relationship, then why are you still with him?
I don't think you've been reading the relationship boards thoroughly lately. Since the "book" and the Oprah show.....that's been quoted hundreds of times. Of course, that book & idea don't cover every relationship problem, particularly if a couple is married for years.
That book applies to someone who's trying to decide if they want to stay in a relationship, or if they will ever get what they want from a relationship. It's not necessarily for a married couple that has boring sex, and want's to know how to fix that problem.
Communication should always be the first way to try to solve a problem. If that doesn't work, then the next step is to decide if this is what you want in a relationship. Your last paragraph covers that. He's just not interested in sex (with you??....does that mean he's interested in sex with others?) and if and when you get it, he's not bothering with foreplay. He's not making any effort to change, even though you've discussed it. This is where the "book" comes in. You're right, he's just not that into you...if he WAS, he would do everything in his power to make you happy. He might be a great guy in other ways, but if the prospect of living the rest of your life with boring sex, or no sex doesn't sound like what you want, then it's time to move on. This is a decision that you have to make, despite anonymous advice from message boards, or "advice" books.
People see what they want in these boards. Even those who come here asking advice! It's not unusual for someone to post a long sad story about how they're being emotionally abused, (or worse), about how their partner doesn't fulfill their needs, etc.,etc., etc. People advise the poster to TALK to the partner, and if that fails, maybe they should get out. Then the poster comes back ALL bent out of shape......"how dare you say that? You don't know me or my partner! He's really a great guy & he only hurts me SOMETIMES!" Or better yet...."I found porn on his computer, and he knows I hate porn".....then people say it's not THAT big a deal....then after 2 or 3 more posts from the OP, it turns out he's been on line cybering with women, and meeting them in person. If they would say that in the BEGINNING, then no one would say that "porn is no biggie"!
The regulars here are always being lambasted by others who say we're too quick to tell someone to "dump him/her". We can only respond to what is written. The bottom line is that if you can't communicate, or if you can, but he can't.....and you're not happy, whether or not he's "into you" isn't the question.....it's whether or not you want to continue the relationship. It sounds to me like you're really not happy, and you've more or less come to the conclusion that nothing will change....so you're ready to throw in the towel. If the "book" helped you make that decision, great! I'm sure you would have done the same without the book....but maybe not as quickly, or easily.
You're right, sometimes it's NOT up to you, lady! When you're not getting what you want, you can't change him.....he has to be willing to do that himself. He has to be TOLD that he's not filling your needs, and if he doesn't respond to that.....the next step IS up to you.
i think what her goal was in her post is to 'announce' that she's come to a conclusion about her relationship, highlighting the things she sees that 'doesn't fit'.
your right though, gtb, about the boards...one of the main reasons why i've stopped posting. no one knows what's really going on in your life/relship and the poster often feels like they have to defend their post b/c people who reply quickly pounce and ADVISE them what to do. (that's all y'alls first problem) but y'all want to problem solve, so that's why you advise. anyways, this woman knows her situation better then anyone else. and if her post was simply to vent about her relshp then yay for her. i dont think she was asking any questions or looking for help to her 'problems'
She might have been only venting, but when I see a vent, I will give my thoughts on the info that is given in the vent.
If you think that's the case in terms of your own relationship, then you're probably right since men WILL do whatever is necessary if their partner is their top priority! They should not need coercing or prodding to give affection or love.
However, no one one on this board is an expert on sex or relationships, only on their own lives and experiences, so one shouldn't expect to get professional advice on a message board anyway.
In a long term relationship, it behooves you to make an effort to solve the problems you have before throwing in the towel, hence the typical recommendations of "compromise, make more time, change your approach, etc. etc. etc.
But I'll agree with you, sometimes, that's just not enough but that's a choice only the poster themselves can make....not the respondants. But I have never shied away from giving an honest opinion, and if the situation looks bleak, then I have said...."Honey, he's just not that into you."
I agree, she's made up her mind.....and all I was doing was agreeing with her.
It seems her revelation came after reading, or hearing about the "book".....
If you've seen the interview, or read the book.....it's nothing more than common sense, but sometimes it's easier to read it in black and white than to rely on your own feelings.
I tried to post in response to Tish's first post, but it didn't go in for some reason. No, I wasn't trying to evaluate my own situation...I've pretty much got that pegged. And no, it's not as simple as "if you aren't happy, then why are you still there?" I've years invested, a lease signed, and no viable options for housing and such right now, so it's very complicated. I'm not, however, blind to the situation.
I merely wanted to point out that sometimes it takes a real live action from the man in the story to really effect change. She may need to change some things for herself, but in the long run, it won't solve the problem (if the problem is as I described.) His promises and her machinations won't do the trick.
I also wanted to offer my own bit of advice to any men who might be dealing with problems in relating to their women. Is she feeling overburdened? Is she feeling unappreciated? Then for goodness' sake, DO something. Rub her feet, run her a bath and don't let the kids beat on the door...make some special plans with her and actually go through with them. Don't make promises to do these things...just do it. You might be pleasantly surprised. Though I have to say, it may take a couple of times for her to get over the shock and disbelief.
Red
Hi Red,
I haven't read the other posts yet, although I will do so later (there is usually really good advice in them). I can't speak for anyone else here, but the reason that I usually give advice to others about taking some action or more importantly, shifting their perception; is because if you need to wait until someone else does something before you can be happy, you will be waiting a long time. Better to be happy now than to wait...waiting for someone to do something, change the way they feel, change their actions or be different means that you are a slave to anothers actions. Better to let them do what they do and you do what you do. Be happy, if they want to come along with you...that's their choice.
As far as the whole "He's just not into you..." thing lately. I think it's silly. It assumes there is some big amorphous "He" out there that encompasses all males. It assumes that men are some enormous sweeping generalization. MOST men love their women...MOST men are interested in their happiness and MOST men are most certainly "into you". Some are not, unfortunately due to early life programming etc. some women are continuously attracted to those guys that are not into them. It never helps us as individuals to focus on how we need to change another...always better to ask ourselves the questions: "Why do I keep ending up with _____ kind of guy?" "What belief do I need to change in order to bring in the kind of nurturing relationship that I want?"
The sad part of this is that often men and women are so addicted to drama in their lives, that they choose partners that keep them in a constant state of agitation...when things become relaxed and they actually find someone that is close to them they get bored...they start wondering where the passion went..."He/She is great, but we just don't have that spark..." So they go out and find some loser that can fulfill their need for drama and then weep because their are no good men/women out there.
It all comes down to what we deeply want inside. To change your life you need to change yourself.
Peace.
Scott.
Again, I completely agree with you, and I also realize that it's not as easy as just "going"! As a matter of fact, I "stayed" in a lousy marriage for 20 years, which in retrospect (which is always 20/20) I wish I hadn't. But, as you said, there was a lot invested, in my case, three young sons as well as half ownership in a home, and at that point, the inability (or so I thought) to provide financial stability for them and myself.
There were MANY problems in that marriage, and one of them was sex....although that wasn't the "deal breaker". I understand how it feels when you talk till you're blue in the face, and it falls on deaf ears. I understand how frustrating that is. And, looking back, I can now say that he was "just not that into me".
I think what was misunderstood in my first post was when I used your "title"....and it sounded like I was criticizing you, saying it IS up to you....in the end. I understand how you used it......that sometimes it's not something YOU can do, but something that HE needs to do.....but when all is said and done, as you know......if HE won't do something, then SHE has to do something........or accept the situation as it is.
Bottom line, sorry if you or anyone else misunderstood what I was trying to say. And now I'll quit before I dig my hole any deeper, lol