-------Sticky Triangle-----

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-26-2004
-------Sticky Triangle-----
89
Wed, 09-29-2004 - 9:46am
Let me start with the history of this story. My coworker (L) and I have been secretly seeing eachother on the side for a few months now. I was initially attracted to her, she's beautiful, but never thought it would go anywhere as previous to this I have only been with men. She brought it to my attention that she is open in her taste, and after a little talking, and a little drinking, I decided to go ahead and sleep with her. It was the best sex I've ever had, and I never looked back. So we have now been seeing each other on a regular basis without anyone knowing. That pretty much brings us up to date.

Ok so, a little while ago my coworker and I decided to go out to the bars. Her husband decided to come at the last minute. I had met her husband a few times before this, but we had never spent any real time together. He also did not know that I had been intimate with his wife. Well the three of us got along fabulously. We all had way too much to drink, and one thing led to another. We ended up back at their house and after a few more drinks, we ended up having a threesome. I was already comfortable with L, but adding her husband to the mix was amazing. I went home the next morning wondering why I had never done this before, and swearing to myself it wouldnt be the last time. And it wasn't. I believe the three of us got together about four times in one month. Each time better than the last. However I started realizing that I was really attracted to her husband more than the occasional "hookup" We started meeting for coffee and lunch breaks. (All without L knowing) Eventually I started tiring of L and my secret relationship, and wanted to go more for her husband. L obviously knows something is going on as I have been pulling away from her, but she would never guess that I am now sleeping with her husband behind her back. I feel really bad about this because initially I did have strong feelings for L, but I guess nothing can replace what a man can give you. What should I do? I don't like lying to L day after day, and she is getting pretty annoying with her constant whining about "us" There really isn't an "us" anymore, just the occasional pity sex to get her to quiet down.

Now my real problem. I recently met a new "girlfriend" and would like to introduce the husband to her, for a threesome. How do I do this without L finding out? She is really getting in the way now. TIA for your help

-- Karen--

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iVillage Member
Registered: 07-30-2004
Fri, 10-01-2004 - 9:28pm
I really get annoyed with the word "slut". This question of morality keeps coming up, so I'm going to offer my 2 cents. Several people have noted the double standard between men and women regarding promiscuity. I think it is not hard to understand the why there are diffenernt standards; it is because men and women experience and express sexuality differently (I'm talking usually and on average here). That is obvious fact, and arrises because of fundamental differences between males and females which is why similar behavioural differences are observed in almost all organisms. The particular manifestations differ acording to the ecological strategy and environmental circumstances of each species. The most important aspect is that it costs a lot more to make an egg than a sperm. Because of that fundamental difference there is a consistent trend towards females experiencing a higher cost of reproduction. There is also a counter trend for males to incur higher costs in order to compete for females but that is besides the point. Anyway, because women experience a higher cost, and men a lesser cost, the optimum reproductive strategy will be different between the two sexes. In humans the reproductive cost for women is always very very high. Higher than almost any other animal. The direct biological costs are very high (long pregnancy, large infant, long lactation) and the subsequent time, behavioural and economic costs are even higher. Because of this, women are severly limitted in the number of offspring they can successfully raise to maturity. Therefore women tend to confine reproduction to very specific circumstances. Additionaly because the cost is so high, the long term assistance of a male partner is very beneficial to reproduction and rearing. However, men experience the cost of reproduction differently , and my fornicating mammalogy prof used to have a saying, "sperm is cheap". Therefore women compete to obtain and maintain the partnership of males in raising the offspring (eg marriage). Biological systems (such as human society) being what they are, there are various strategies that might be successfully employed. SOme women are more likely to be liberal in their choice of situation in which they wish to be sexuly available. They incur a lot of risks this way (unplanned pregnancy for example) but also a lot of advantages (protection and provision by males and insemination (although this is cheap)). This dichotomy is sometimes refered to by ecologists and evolutionary biologists as "choosy" vs "floosy". Unfortunately for women who employ a more conservative strategy, these "floosy" women tend to decrease partnership opportunities for them or threaten to decrease the resources that they might get for themselves and their own offspring from their current partners. A strategy to decrease the competitive ability of floosy females is to ostrasize them from the group. This sort of strategy is comonly employed to control the behaviour of group members or to remove inconvenient members from the group. That is where our notions of vengence and punishment come from. That is why theives and murderers are shunned or attacked by society. Other social animals also do this, vampire bats are a classic example. Besides competing females, parents may also seek to portray the floosy strategy as immoral in order to control the behaviour of their daughters to meet the strategy that they view as most likely to succeed. Men may seek to portray the floosy strategy as bad in order to control the behaviour of their own partners. Thus, the word "slut" is a label that is used to control the sexual behaviour of women by degrading them. My belief is that it is sexist, cruel, and unnecessary in today's society where birth control is widely available. I think that people should recognize a woman's right to express herself sexually as long as she isn't harming anyone else. I think that people should be more specific in their discussions of sexual morals rather than throwing the word "slut" around as if it were an argument in itself.

-phat

Avatar for luvmylittleones
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Fri, 10-01-2004 - 10:30pm
In response to the original question based on my opinion after reading all posts....What do you care if L finds out? This seems odd that you would post a question like that and yet make it clear you will do what you want to do when you want to do it regardless of who gets in the way. The obvious answer is have the girl with you next time you meet up with L's H. It's beyond me why you would say that you want to spare her feelings (by not telling her she is really just getting in the way) when you say that you only care about yourself.

Personally I think what you are doing is wrong for more reasons than one but it is not my place to reprimand you... I have confidence in karma, you will get what you deserve that is just how things go. For all we know they could find out about it, apologize to each other for making a mistake, learn from it, and boot you out of the picture.

Visitor (not verified)
anonymous user
Sat, 10-02-2004 - 5:31am
phat, slut is to refer to both male and female ,it is meant to offend no one, but if the shoe fits........ your anaolgy holds some water..but excludes any reference to religious or moral beliefs. Scientifically, there is nothing wrong with being sexually active, as long as birth and disease protection is used..We "mammals" have progressed beyond that. Its called society, and what is deemed acceptable.Like I stated before, immoral people are unaware of their immorality.

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-30-2004
Sat, 10-02-2004 - 8:49am
I keep having this strange feeling that I'm being insulted. Weird.
iVillage Member
Registered: 11-07-2003
Sat, 10-02-2004 - 11:10am
Phat, just accept that unless you're a virgin, you're a slut. Welcome to my world, Phat....see ya in hell!
iVillage Member
Registered: 07-22-2004
Sat, 10-02-2004 - 11:25am
I don't accept that, why do you?

C h a r a c t e r


above all else


Mr. Para

 

C  H  A  R  A  C  T  E  R

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-07-2003
Sat, 10-02-2004 - 11:38am
I was being sarcastic. Of course I don't accept that. I think it's ludicrous.
iVillage Member
Registered: 11-15-2003
Sat, 10-02-2004 - 5:40pm
Dear Karen,

I have not had a chance to read all of the replies to this post. This is interesting to say the least. It's always interesting in a format like this to go back and re-read your own posts and responses to other posts. The answer to the questions that you have are usually contained in the questions themselves. What jumped out at me in particular was that you felt that you were too busy to be involved with emotions and that this was a "dog eat dog" world. What you believe you create in your life. To me, that is the issue that you are having and this situation with this couple is just a way for you to embrace it. You are asking a group of strangers on the internet for help figuring out how to do something that you know is clearly damaging to others and yourself. You are continually denying that you have any responsibility while at the same time your very question unconsciously is saying "I am responsible"...guess what...You are responsible. Which is not the same as saying you are to blame. Life is offering you a chance to be more complete and heal something deep inside...take the opportunity, or it will continue to come up.

Do you see the paradox here? It's interesting. The problem that you are having as I see it, is that you are disconnected with the rest of humanity. You are looking for connection and attempting to find it through sex. Sex can only connect when we allow ourselves to feel real emotion...and that includes all of the "negative" emotions. If we don't combine real emotions with sex, than sex actually isolates. See if this resonates with you...see if there may be some truth behind this. Usually if you "can't be bothered with emotions", it's because there is something really hurt inside you that wants to hide. If you let it out though it has the possibility of healing, if you keep it inside it can control and ruin your life.

I don't think you're a slut or a bad person. I just think that inside you're sad and need to deal with that rather than all of this sexual drama. Sex is always a sympton of happiness or sadness. Sex magnifies whatever is inside you that needs to come out.

Good luck and much love to you.

Scott.

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-07-2003
Sat, 10-02-2004 - 6:07pm
....and then you have the clitoris....

Phat, women are perfectly capable of enjoying sex WITHOUT intercourse. If a woman was adamant NOT to have intercourse, then you remove the risk totally, right? Take sperm and egg totally out of it. Do you still think that there would be a double standard? You really don't believe that women weren't having illicit sex on the side do you? Hypothetically speaking, what if women had sex with many men but just wouldn't allow them to penetrate? (Perhaps that's why oral, manual, and and anal sex were borne....adaptation.) Somehow, I'd still think that the double standard would still exist even if women never became pregnant because they were responsible enough not to NOT allow penetration(and men complied). I truly believe it has to do with men and their issues with woman having any type of sex with other males. Even if a woman were only to have oral, anal, or manual sex with several partners, she'd still be considered a floosy, whereas a guy who has penetration isn't(even today). Why? Because the double standard has nothing to to do with her risk of pregnancy.

Ahhh, yes, the glorious clitoris.....maybe God is a woman after all.






Edited 10/2/2004 6:15 pm ET ET by life_is_but_a_dream

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-23-2004
Sat, 10-02-2004 - 8:04pm
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