what does this mean??

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-04-2004
what does this mean??
37
Mon, 10-04-2004 - 9:00am
Hi, I'm in a fairly new relationship and have a question. We've only been dating for about 2 months, and kinda taking things slow which I think is good. Last week, on our last date, I stayed over and we did everything (oral) but didn't have sex. So I'm wondering why it stopped there, cause he didn't initiate anything after that. We cuddled up and fell asleep. The date itself was great and we spent the next day together as well. So I guess I'm just confused. Do men feel intercourse is much more intimate than oral and perhaps he still wants to wait for that final step? I guess I thought that oral usually led to sex, but maybe it's different for everyone.

thanks in advance!

nikki
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-01-2003
Mon, 10-04-2004 - 10:13pm
Agree. The total number of partners doesn't even matter, it only takes *one* time with *one* infected person to transmit an STD. It happened to DH and I when we were dating (and dating exclusively for a year by that point). I started out with some vaginal 'bumps' that ended up being papilloma - HPV. He developed them about the same time. He'd only had a very few partners before me and I'd had even less than him (5 to be exact, and 3 of those were one-time-only deals). He was divorced and hadn't had sex at all since the breakup of his marriage. At the time, this was before the HIV/AIDS threat and so with me on BCPs, there wasn't a need for a barrier method. I don't know which one of us harbored the virus and passed it on and since it had been so long since either one of us had even been with another person, it was hard to even begin to know.

So there we were, 2 *nice* people with a small number of sex partners and yet we had it. We were both treated and no further outbreaks, although we'll both always have the virus - and could pass it on to potential partners, although there won't be any ;)

There's just no way of knowing. And when you find out, it's too late. There's just no way of knowing without tests, whether a potential partner has HIV, HPV, chlamydia, herpes, or a host of other silent infections. Stopping to use a barrier (and the resultant small loss of sensation) cuts the spontaniety for sure. But finding out you've contracted an STD is a *lot* less fun.

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-30-2004
Mon, 10-04-2004 - 11:48pm
<> - I understand the sentiment behind this statement but it is mathematically incorect. The odds of a partner having an STD are not 100% they are much less than that. If the probability is say 15% (a number I completely made up for the sake of argument) and I had 3 partners (how many I have had) and assuming the chances of getting an STD from unprotected sex with an infected person is 100% (it isn't) then my odds would be...Ok, got to check a math book....about 39% if my figures figure. However if I had 10 partners my chances would be...need another text book...My stupid Uni dropout ex roomate still has my calculus text! That bastard! Ok, I can't figure out how to calculate more than 3 intersecting probabilities but it suffice it to say it would be a lot higher... Actually, I googled it and I think I know how to do it. The odds are 91%. That is a big difference and shows that the number of partners obviously has an effect on the chances of getting sick.

Of course since I always use a condom or monogamy + testing for intercourse then I never actually took that risk. This is just hypothetical.

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-30-2004
Tue, 10-05-2004 - 12:23am
<>

The chances of transmitting most STDs is much lower via oral than via intercourse. That is a fact. Why would you think any differently? I skimmed the website that you posted and it is pretty weak. They talk about kissing being unsafe because one person contracted HIV that way after dental work (they don't mention the dental work). So out of millions of cases worldwide (about 50 million past and present seems right, but I could be off) one person caught it that way. So now kissing is a big risk? THat is just ridiculous. That is analogous to never stepping out of the house for fear of getting struck by lightning. Actually it is even worse because the odds of getting killed by lightning are much higher. You need to develop some critical analysis skills so you don't fall for every oddball thing you read with an alarmist slant. Earlier this year a diabetic woman died from an infection POSSIBLY caused by slapping a mosquitoe and having it smeared into the bite wound. They don't even know if that was the cause and suddenly my local news is warning everyone to avoid slapping skitters. Give me a break! One woman, with diabetes, and I'm supposed to work up some sort of fear about this? How many insects have been slapped without anything bad happening to anyone (not counting the mosquitoes who die a violent and tragic death in the prime of their young lives)?

<>

-Assuming were dealing with a six shooter here, the odds of my dieing after one round of this version of Rusian roulette is about 67%. Question for ya Purple, if I went muff diving tonight with some random woman, do you think the odds of my contracting a terminal disease are 67%? Even close to that high? They aren't. I don't know why exactly you think that. I'll do some research and find out exactly what the deal is with the relative risk between unprotected intercourse vs oral. Then we'll see.

-phat

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-20-2004
Tue, 10-05-2004 - 12:53am
That wasn't what I saw on the site. If you scroll down, look for the yellow text box with the hot red lips on it. This is what it actually posted:

"A kiss is just a kiss..?

Even kissing can be a source of infection. According to the US Centers for Disease Control, "Open-mouth kissing is considered a very low-risk activity for the transmission of HIV. However, prolonged open-mouth kissing could damage the mouth or lips and allow HIV to pass from an infected person to a partner and then enter the body through cuts or sores in the mouth. Because of this possible risk, the CDC recommends against open-mouth kissing with an infected partner. One case suggests that a woman became infected with HIV from her sex partner through exposure to contaminated blood during open-mouth kissing. The July 11, 1997, Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report contains an article on this case"."

It didn't say anything about dental work. I would also wonder if flossing might be dangerous as well. Flossing causes lesions and blood exposure.

I believe that the odds of getting a transmitted disease today is 1 in 4. I don't really remember ever reading in any of my past research that oral sex was less contagious than vaginal sex. Could you find some links for me, you may be right, I just assumed that since the CDC highly recommends condoms during oral, that it's just as detrimental. Hey listen Phat, I can't tell you how to live your life, if you want to muff dive with a stranger, that's your business. The fact still remains, and you said this yourself, that if the person you're diving into has had a high number of partners, than your odds even higher because of any of those partners had lots of partners, her odds were high...and so on and so on. I just can't imagine a little thing like a barrier being worth the risk. But hey, who am I, right? Happy muff diving!

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-14-2004
Tue, 10-05-2004 - 1:07am
Maybe he's gay? lol Naw, j/k... what man in their right mind would pass up on you-know-what-I-mean.
iVillage Member
Registered: 08-29-2004
Tue, 10-05-2004 - 2:24am
if we're talking about HIV, the risk with oral sex is significantly lower. there seems to be some chemical in saliva that suppresses the virus, so the rate of transmission is quite low, even among HIV positive mothers nursing babies. here are a couple recent articles on the subject (i'm interested to see if phatgenes comes up with anything more scientific)...

http://www.gaylib.com/aids/aids22.htm

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1608/is_4_19/ai_104682188

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-20-2004
Tue, 10-05-2004 - 9:22am
Please take heed. The CDC says: "While no one knows exactly what the degree of risk is, evidence suggests that the risk is less than that of unprotected anal or vaginal sex."

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/pubs/faq/faq19.htm

Other STD's are more rampant are spread through oral sex. Some of which can lead to permanent damage, like sterility and veneral warts. According to the CDC, these other STDS, also increase a person's risk of both acquiring and spreading HIV infection.



"Improved treatment of STDs is vital, not only to reduce the severe reproductive consequences of these diseases, but also to stem the sexual spread of HIV infection. Because infection with these STDs greatly increases a person's risk of both acquiring and spreading HIV infection, improved STD treatment is critical to slowing the HIV epidemic."

http://www.cdc.gov/nchstp/dstd/Press_Releases/National_Report_Card_STDs.htm

Please read my previous link. Many STD's are transmitted through oral sex and if left untreated can be detrimental and even cause sterility.

_____________________________



iVillage Member
Registered: 07-30-2004
Tue, 10-05-2004 - 12:03pm
Man, I hate that! I never get to read deleted messages before the are deleted, even if I'm online at the time. The Man must watch this board like a Coopers hawk watches a chipping sparrow! Phooey.
iVillage Member
Registered: 09-20-2004
Tue, 10-05-2004 - 12:44pm
Relax Phat, I'll fill ya in. It was a post from a 16 or 17 year old girl who said that she often gave out random(word she used) bjs(without using condoms) and was thanking either you or the other poster for getting on those who exaggerate the risks.
iVillage Member
Registered: 08-19-2004
Tue, 10-05-2004 - 2:05pm
Phat,

I just wanted to add something in your defense. If you are a consenting adult and you know what the risks are (it seems you are well informed) it is your choice wheather or not to take precautions. Many people may not agree with you choice but, ultimately it is the decision of you and your partner.

We all make decisons every day that effect our health and safety. We may not always make the right choices, sometimes we choose the risky path but as long as we are informed it is our decision.


I could compare it to motorcycling. Sure, If I dont put on my helmet and leather on a 100 degree day I risk head injury or worse but, I've done it and I know the risk.

or... diet... sure Im less likely to get cancer and heart disease if I always eat my green leafy veggies (preferably organic) but sometimes I opt for the big greasy cheeseburger.

just be careful and be smart.

Danielle